Author Topic: Discussion and Suggestion Thread  (Read 224397 times)

Offline DonQuixote

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“Hast thou not felt in forest gloom, as gloaming falls on dark-some dells, when comes a whisper, hum and hiss; savage growling sounds a-near, dazzling flashes around thee flicker, whirring waxes and fills thine ears: has thou not felt then grisly horrors that grip thee and hold thee?”

Offline Garryl

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #121 on: March 20, 2012, 08:05:54 PM »
Spellshaping: Do all 4 HD Elemental Shapers know those formulae, or is that just the typical list known?


Air Elemental Shaper
The Claw attack bonus should be +8, not +6 (3 BaB, 5 Dex).

Quote from: Inner Tempest
Creatures caught in the storm can otherwise act normally, but must succeed on a Concentration check (DC 15 + spell level) to cast a spell.  Creatures caught in the storm take a -4 penalty to Dexterity and a -2 penalty on attack rolls.
Why not just say they are entangled as long as they are caught?


Earth Elemental Shaper
As a singular natural attack, the slam should gain 1.5*Str bonus to damage, so +7 instead of +5.

Ooh, tanky. And simple, as earth is often portrayed. No complaints here.


Fire Elemental Shaper
Burning Touch should indicate that it is a touch attack in the stat block (ie: "+6 melee touch"). Well, I suppose it doesn't absolutely have to, but other creatures that perform actual touch attacks (not incorporeal touches, but those are a very specific kind of natural weapon usually, I think) have it indicated as such. Although, they doesn't often have "touch" in the weapon's name. Still, it can't hurt.


Water Elemental Shaper
As a singular natural attack, the slam should gain 1.5*Str bonus to damage, so +4 instead of +3.


Paraelemental Shapers
Quote from: Chill
   Chill (Ex): An ice paraelemental shaper's claw attack deals slashing damage plus cold damage from the paraelemental's freezing body.  Creatures hitting an ice paraelemental shaper with natural weapons or unarmed attacks take cold damage as though hit by the paraelemental's attack.
Quote from: Heat
  Heat (Ex): A magma paraelemental shaper's slam attack deals bludgeoning damage plus fire damage from the paraelemental's molten body.  Creatures hitting a magma paraelemental shaper with natural weapons or unarmed attacks take fire damage as though hit by the paraelemental's attack.
Quote from: Acid
   Acid (Ex): An ooze paraelemental shaper's slam attack deal bludgeoning damage plus acid damage from the corrosive muck that forms the paraelemental's body.  Creatures hitting an ooze paraelemental shaper with natural weapons or unarmed strikes take acid damage as though hit by the paraelemental's attack.
How much cold/fire/acid damage is that? What if it's in the middle of the elemental's turn after it channeled a spellshape?


Magma Paraelemental Shaper
As a singular natural attack, the slam should gain 1.5*Str bonus to damage, so +4 instead of +3.

Quote from: Hardening
  Hardening (Ex): If a magma paraelemental shaper takes damage equal to half of its full normal hit points from water or cold damage within 1 minute, its body hardens into volcanic rock.  This hardening lasts for 5 rounds, after which the creature returns to its fluid form.  While hardened, the magma paraelemental shaper's statistics change as follows:
...
   It gains the solid subtype and the associated traits (including hardness 8 and bonus hit points based on its size, if the paraelemental is Medium or larger).
What if the increased hit points cause the total water/cold damage taken to be less than half its new hp total? Or is that part of what you meant by "full normal hit points"? Or is that just an utterly irrelevant question because it's a one-time triggered effect, and thus only cares about the elemental's hp when the effect triggers (which is before it would gain more hp)?
   Also, what happens if it takes 1/2 its total hp in water/cold damage again while already hardened? It can't exactly lose the fluid subtype and gain the solid subtype again, but does its +4 Str, -2 Dex, and +2 nat armor stack again? Probably not because it would a modifier from the same source.


Ooze Paraelemental Shaper
The slam attack is listed as 1d6 in the normal attack, and 1d8 in the full attack. As a singular natural attack, it should gain 1.5*Str bonus to damage, so +4 instead of +3.

Quote from: Corrosive Body
   Finally, the grime of an ooze paraelemental shaper's body pollutes any water it touches.  An ooze paraelemental shaper can spoil 1 gallon of water (or other water-based liquids) per round, but the paraelemental must remain in contact with the liquid for 1 full round in order to do so.  Creatures made of water and creatures with the water subtype are unaffected by this ability.
Does this immunity apply only to the last part of Corrosive Body or to the entire ability?


Smoke Paraelemental Shaper
See Fire Elemental about indicating that Burning Touch is a touch attack.

Offline DonQuixote

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #122 on: March 20, 2012, 09:19:51 PM »
Spellshaping: Do all 4 HD Elemental Shapers know those formulae, or is that just the typical list known?

Not quite sure yet.  I'm going to actually properly define their advancement later this week (including sizes larger than Medium!), so I'll probably figure it out as a part of that.  Given that all elemental shapers start at 4 Hit Dice, though, I'm inclined to say that this is what they all start with.


Air Elemental Shaper
The Claw attack bonus should be +8, not +6 (3 BaB, 5 Dex).

Quote from: Inner Tempest
Creatures caught in the storm can otherwise act normally, but must succeed on a Concentration check (DC 15 + spell level) to cast a spell.  Creatures caught in the storm take a -4 penalty to Dexterity and a -2 penalty on attack rolls.
Why not just say they are entangled as long as they are caught?


Earth Elemental Shaper
As a singular natural attack, the slam should gain 1.5*Str bonus to damage, so +7 instead of +5.

Ooh, tanky. And simple, as earth is often portrayed. No complaints here.


Fire Elemental Shaper
Burning Touch should indicate that it is a touch attack in the stat block (ie: "+6 melee touch"). Well, I suppose it doesn't absolutely have to, but other creatures that perform actual touch attacks (not incorporeal touches, but those are a very specific kind of natural weapon usually, I think) have it indicated as such. Although, they doesn't often have "touch" in the weapon's name. Still, it can't hurt.


Water Elemental Shaper
As a singular natural attack, the slam should gain 1.5*Str bonus to damage, so +4 instead of +3.

Fixed.


Paraelemental Shapers
Quote from: Chill
   Chill (Ex): An ice paraelemental shaper's claw attack deals slashing damage plus cold damage from the paraelemental's freezing body.  Creatures hitting an ice paraelemental shaper with natural weapons or unarmed attacks take cold damage as though hit by the paraelemental's attack.
Quote from: Heat
  Heat (Ex): A magma paraelemental shaper's slam attack deals bludgeoning damage plus fire damage from the paraelemental's molten body.  Creatures hitting a magma paraelemental shaper with natural weapons or unarmed attacks take fire damage as though hit by the paraelemental's attack.
Quote from: Acid
   Acid (Ex): An ooze paraelemental shaper's slam attack deal bludgeoning damage plus acid damage from the corrosive muck that forms the paraelemental's body.  Creatures hitting an ooze paraelemental shaper with natural weapons or unarmed strikes take acid damage as though hit by the paraelemental's attack.
How much cold/fire/acid damage is that? What if it's in the middle of the elemental's turn after it channeled a spellshape?

The amount of damage is listed in the statblocks, as with the MM1 fire elemental.  I'm not sure what your second question is asking.


Magma Paraelemental Shaper
As a singular natural attack, the slam should gain 1.5*Str bonus to damage, so +4 instead of +3.

Fixed.

Quote from: Hardening
  Hardening (Ex): If a magma paraelemental shaper takes damage equal to half of its full normal hit points from water or cold damage within 1 minute, its body hardens into volcanic rock.  This hardening lasts for 5 rounds, after which the creature returns to its fluid form.  While hardened, the magma paraelemental shaper's statistics change as follows:
...
   It gains the solid subtype and the associated traits (including hardness 8 and bonus hit points based on its size, if the paraelemental is Medium or larger).
What if the increased hit points cause the total water/cold damage taken to be less than half its new hp total? Or is that part of what you meant by "full normal hit points"? Or is that just an utterly irrelevant question because it's a one-time triggered effect, and thus only cares about the elemental's hp when the effect triggers (which is before it would gain more hp)?
   Also, what happens if it takes 1/2 its total hp in water/cold damage again while already hardened? It can't exactly lose the fluid subtype and gain the solid subtype again, but does its +4 Str, -2 Dex, and +2 nat armor stack again? Probably not because it would a modifier from the same source.

Yes, that is the intention of the "full normal hit points" clause.  And, no, you can't harden a second time--as you said, they would be modifiers from the same source.


Ooze Paraelemental Shaper
The slam attack is listed as 1d6 in the normal attack, and 1d8 in the full attack. As a singular natural attack, it should gain 1.5*Str bonus to damage, so +4 instead of +3.

Quote from: Corrosive Body
   Finally, the grime of an ooze paraelemental shaper's body pollutes any water it touches.  An ooze paraelemental shaper can spoil 1 gallon of water (or other water-based liquids) per round, but the paraelemental must remain in contact with the liquid for 1 full round in order to do so.  Creatures made of water and creatures with the water subtype are unaffected by this ability.
Does this immunity apply only to the last part of Corrosive Body or to the entire ability?


Smoke Paraelemental Shaper
See Fire Elemental about indicating that Burning Touch is a touch attack.

Fixed and clarified.
“Hast thou not felt in forest gloom, as gloaming falls on dark-some dells, when comes a whisper, hum and hiss; savage growling sounds a-near, dazzling flashes around thee flicker, whirring waxes and fills thine ears: has thou not felt then grisly horrors that grip thee and hold thee?”

Offline Garryl

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #123 on: March 20, 2012, 09:28:22 PM »
Paraelemental Shapers
Quote from: Chill
   Chill (Ex): An ice paraelemental shaper's claw attack deals slashing damage plus cold damage from the paraelemental's freezing body.  Creatures hitting an ice paraelemental shaper with natural weapons or unarmed attacks take cold damage as though hit by the paraelemental's attack.
Quote from: Heat
  Heat (Ex): A magma paraelemental shaper's slam attack deals bludgeoning damage plus fire damage from the paraelemental's molten body.  Creatures hitting a magma paraelemental shaper with natural weapons or unarmed attacks take fire damage as though hit by the paraelemental's attack.
Quote from: Acid
   Acid (Ex): An ooze paraelemental shaper's slam attack deal bludgeoning damage plus acid damage from the corrosive muck that forms the paraelemental's body.  Creatures hitting an ooze paraelemental shaper with natural weapons or unarmed strikes take acid damage as though hit by the paraelemental's attack.
How much cold/fire/acid damage is that? What if it's in the middle of the elemental's turn after it channeled a spellshape?

The amount of damage is listed in the statblocks, as with the MM1 fire elemental.  I'm not sure what your second question is asking.

Once you've channeled a spellshape, the type of damage your attacks deal changes for the turn. So, if, say the magma para channels the fire spellshape, he now deals 1d6+4+1d6 fire damage with his slam, instead of just 1d6 (plus 1d6+4 bludgeoning which is not fire damage and thus irrelevant for Heat). Would a natural attack against him now deal 1d6 or 2d6+4 to the attacker? Similarly, if he channels rockslam (the bludgeoning one) instead, it's now all bludgeoning damage, no fire at all on the slam so no damage from Heat.

(The latter bit about no fire damage is assuming I'm understanding the Spellshape Channeling ability correctly about how it interacts with bonus damage and extra sources on an attack and stuff, but I'm probably not. The point still stands in general because there are other effects that do the same thing, even if that specific ability doesn't.)

Edit: In all the confusion, I forgot to mention, great stuff as always, can't wait to see more, etc. Thanks for all the effort you put into this.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2012, 09:29:59 PM by Garryl »

Offline DonQuixote

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #124 on: March 20, 2012, 09:30:09 PM »
Hrm.  I hadn't thought about that.  I think the solution is going to be "as if hit by the X's normal attack."  Keyword here being "normal."

Edit: That was, indeed, the solution.  Incidentally, advancement for elemental shapers has been defined, and they now increase in size.

Edit: In all the confusion, I forgot to mention, great stuff as always, can't wait to see more, etc. Thanks for all the effort you put into this.

 :D  Glad to hear that it's being so well-received!  And don't worry about more material--I currently have a five-to-six page to-do list.


Edit Again: So, for an asinine few hours there, it was possible to have a 20 HD Huge elemental shaper with access to 9th-level formulae...at CR 11.  FIXED THAT.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 12:56:47 AM by DonQuixote »
“Hast thou not felt in forest gloom, as gloaming falls on dark-some dells, when comes a whisper, hum and hiss; savage growling sounds a-near, dazzling flashes around thee flicker, whirring waxes and fills thine ears: has thou not felt then grisly horrors that grip thee and hold thee?”

Offline Garryl

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #125 on: March 21, 2012, 09:22:16 PM »
Earth's advancement says a second slam touch attack. You might also want to mention that the Str bonus to the slams of Large+ elemental shapers drops to 1x instead of 1.5x (since they now have more than one attack), to avoid confusion.

Offline DonQuixote

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #126 on: March 21, 2012, 10:19:08 PM »
The "slam touch attack" has been fixed.  I'm not sure that defining the Strength bonus to damage is strictly necessary, given that it only gets 1.5x its Strength because of the rules in the first place.  At the point at which you're advancing it, I'd assume that you know how and why such things work.
“Hast thou not felt in forest gloom, as gloaming falls on dark-some dells, when comes a whisper, hum and hiss; savage growling sounds a-near, dazzling flashes around thee flicker, whirring waxes and fills thine ears: has thou not felt then grisly horrors that grip thee and hold thee?”

Offline The-Mage-King

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #127 on: March 25, 2012, 07:52:28 PM »
Hm. I'm considering 'brewing a prestige class for this. If I post it over  at GitP, want me to link to it here?

Offline DonQuixote

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #128 on: March 25, 2012, 08:39:05 PM »
Sure!  Just toss a link into this thread and I'll add it to the Index.
“Hast thou not felt in forest gloom, as gloaming falls on dark-some dells, when comes a whisper, hum and hiss; savage growling sounds a-near, dazzling flashes around thee flicker, whirring waxes and fills thine ears: has thou not felt then grisly horrors that grip thee and hold thee?”

Offline DonQuixote

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #129 on: March 26, 2012, 12:49:41 PM »
“Hast thou not felt in forest gloom, as gloaming falls on dark-some dells, when comes a whisper, hum and hiss; savage growling sounds a-near, dazzling flashes around thee flicker, whirring waxes and fills thine ears: has thou not felt then grisly horrors that grip thee and hold thee?”

Offline Garryl

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #130 on: March 26, 2012, 01:03:24 PM »
Yay, there's more!

Arcane Meditation: Impulse Mages can use light armor without interfering with their spellshapes. Should the speed boost not also apply while in light armor?
For the reflection effect, I need to check this, but I think you can voluntarily miss with an attack. As such (assuming I'm correct), the reflected effect's caster could choose to miss, thus making the reflection kind of moot. Maybe have the Impulse Mage make the attack roll instead? If it didn't also cost an immediate action, this ability could wind up as a fun "tennis with the boss" situation.

Dark Impulses: Impulse Mages choose 5 circles to use, not 4.
Woot! Hexblade's Curse (the good version) and those fluffy Shadowcaster goodies!

Impulsive Jaunt (and Impulsive Dodge/Tactics/etc.): Is this movement supposed to be teleportation? Or is it forced but otherwise normal movement, like being Bull Rushed?

Impulsive Voyage: This used to be a spell belonging to Nybor, right?
Since it functions like teleport, does that mean you can affect multiple creatures with a single use based on your caster level?

Offline DonQuixote

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #131 on: March 26, 2012, 01:08:37 PM »
Arcane Meditation: Impulse Mages can use light armor without interfering with their spellshapes. Should the speed boost not also apply while in light armor?

Fixed.

For the reflection effect, I need to check this, but I think you can voluntarily miss with an attack. As such (assuming I'm correct), the reflected effect's caster could choose to miss, thus making the reflection kind of moot. Maybe have the Impulse Mage make the attack roll instead? If it didn't also cost an immediate action, this ability could wind up as a fun "tennis with the boss" situation.

Well, it's based off of an existing ACF in Complete Mage, so I assume that it's valid.  And, yes, you can Dead Man Volley with Ganon.


Dark Impulses: Impulse Mages choose 5 circles to use, not 4.
Woot! Hexblade's Curse (the good version) and those fluffy Shadowcaster goodies!

Fixed.  Also, yup.


Impulsive Jaunt (and Impulsive Dodge/Tactics/etc.): Is this movement supposed to be teleportation? Or is it forced but otherwise normal movement, like being Bull Rushed?

It's supposed to be teleportation.  Should I be toying with the wording?

Impulsive Voyage: This used to be a spell belonging to Nybor, right?
Since it functions like teleport, does that mean you can affect multiple creatures with a single use based on your caster level?

Yeah, Nybor's spells tend to amuse me.  I cleaned it up so that you can send "one other" creature that you touch, closing the "multiple creatures" loophole.
“Hast thou not felt in forest gloom, as gloaming falls on dark-some dells, when comes a whisper, hum and hiss; savage growling sounds a-near, dazzling flashes around thee flicker, whirring waxes and fills thine ears: has thou not felt then grisly horrors that grip thee and hold thee?”

Offline Garryl

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #132 on: March 26, 2012, 01:38:18 PM »
Nah, you just need to say that it's teleportation (which you have; the version I read just said "move"). However, now you need to change unoccupied to occupied (unless you only want to teleport into spaces that are a bit too friendly with your party-mates... or the wall). Do you have to teleport exactly 5/10/15 feet, or can you teleport less?

Impulsive Jaunt will be very annoying for anyone trying to sleep. Enough with sleepwalking, try sleepteleporting! Just make sure you don't leave any doors open, or you could wind up across town by the time you wake up! You might want to put an "off" switch in there somewhere.

Offline DonQuixote

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #133 on: March 26, 2012, 01:49:14 PM »
That was a silly typo.  It has been fixed.  Similarly, Impulsive Dodge and Impulsive Tactics now allow you to move "up to" 10 or 15 feet.  Though, since you don't have control over Impulsive Jaunt, it currently has the throttle stuck at full.

In terms of sleep teleportation, I've allowed you to suppress it as a full-round action.  However, the other feats now require that it be active for them to function.

Though I do really, really like the idea of just randomly teleporting around while you're asleep.  Fortunately, you can still do it if you really want to, since you don't have to suppress it while you sleep.
“Hast thou not felt in forest gloom, as gloaming falls on dark-some dells, when comes a whisper, hum and hiss; savage growling sounds a-near, dazzling flashes around thee flicker, whirring waxes and fills thine ears: has thou not felt then grisly horrors that grip thee and hold thee?”

Offline DonQuixote

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #134 on: March 27, 2012, 11:34:35 PM »
"Elemental adept?  Is that...you?  What happened?"
"I got revised..."
"Revised?"
"A lot..."
"Should I be calling Homebrew Services?"
"No, no!  It's nothing like that.  He...he loves me."
"Elemental adept, would you just listen to yourself?"
"SHUT UP, IMPULSE MAGE!  YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE!"
"Now, listen..."
"NO, YOU LISTEN!  WHAT DONQUIXOTE AND I HAVE IS MAGICAL!  DON'T YOU DARE TRY AND SAY ANYTHING DIFFERENT!"


...that...is not what I expected to type.  Either way, revisions have been posted.  Also, new PDFs.
“Hast thou not felt in forest gloom, as gloaming falls on dark-some dells, when comes a whisper, hum and hiss; savage growling sounds a-near, dazzling flashes around thee flicker, whirring waxes and fills thine ears: has thou not felt then grisly horrors that grip thee and hold thee?”

Offline Amechra

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #135 on: March 27, 2012, 11:36:43 PM »
"Elemental adept?  Is that...you?  What happened?"
"I got revised..."
"Revised?"
"A lot..."
"Should I be calling Homebrew Services?"
"No, no!  It's nothing like that.  He...he loves me."
"Elemental adept, would you just listen to yourself?"
"SHUT UP, IMPULSE MAGE!  YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE!"
"Now, listen..."
"NO, YOU LISTEN!  WHAT DONQUIXOTE AND I HAVE IS MAGICAL!  DON'T YOU DARE TRY AND SAY ANYTHING DIFFERENT!"


...that...is not what I expected to type.  Either way, revisions have been posted.  Also, new PDFs.

If I had room in my sig...
"There is happiness for those who accept their fate, there is glory for those that defy it."

"Now that everyone's so happy, this is probably a good time to tell you I ate your parents."

Offline DonQuixote

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #136 on: March 27, 2012, 11:51:01 PM »
I should probably edit that out before I damn myself to hell even more.

Also, classy: Noticing a one-word stylistic typo and deciding to recompile the PDF, post it, and change all the links.
“Hast thou not felt in forest gloom, as gloaming falls on dark-some dells, when comes a whisper, hum and hiss; savage growling sounds a-near, dazzling flashes around thee flicker, whirring waxes and fills thine ears: has thou not felt then grisly horrors that grip thee and hold thee?”

Offline The-Mage-King

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #137 on: March 28, 2012, 03:31:43 PM »
Well, here's the PrC I mentioned working on. It'll need to be tweaked a bit, I'm sure, but... It's a start.

Offline Garryl

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #138 on: March 28, 2012, 04:23:54 PM »
DonQuixote, please stop posting things so late at night. You make it very hard for me to keep a decent bedtime.

Offline DonQuixote

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #139 on: March 28, 2012, 11:52:24 PM »
Well, here's the PrC I mentioned working on. It'll need to be tweaked a bit, I'm sure, but... It's a start.

Just saw this!  I've added it to the Index, and I'll look over it when I have the chance.  Unfortunately, I have a paper due tomorrow...and I sort of spent most of today writing a race.

DonQuixote, please stop posting things so late at night. You make it very hard for me to keep a decent bedtime.

Boy, I wish I could.


INCIDENTALLY.  New race went up.  Spellsoul Armor.  For everyone who ever wanted to be a floating breastplate.
“Hast thou not felt in forest gloom, as gloaming falls on dark-some dells, when comes a whisper, hum and hiss; savage growling sounds a-near, dazzling flashes around thee flicker, whirring waxes and fills thine ears: has thou not felt then grisly horrors that grip thee and hold thee?”