Discussion and Suggestion Thread

[Garryl]

If you want a skillmonkey spellshaper off the Savant chassis, how about a spellshaping Indianna Jones type "archaeologist"?
Seeker of (historical) knowledge? Check.
Good excuse to have trapfinding and lots of skills? Check.
Open to more than just combat-related class features? Check.
What I wonder, though, is if it wouldn't mesh better mechanically with the Impulse Mage instead.

[pppp]

If you want a skillmonkey spellshaper off the Savant chassis, how about a spellshaping Indianna Jones type "archaeologist"?

You are brilliant genius, sir.

[Garryl]

Savant's Still Mind says it comes at 4th, but the table says 6th.

Savant's Knowledge: Clarity should reduce the miss chance that you and your allies suffer on attacks against the subjects, not their miss chance (which, used as a general term like that, would either be completely meaningless or be a buff to your enemies).

Edit: Savant's Knowledge (in the general description) mentions improving when you beat the DC by 5+, but all of the abilities' boosts are at 10+.

Is the limitation of using Savant's Knowledge actually supposed to be once ever per creature? You'd think it would be once per encounter or once per day or something. I know you don't meet that many recurring villains, but it would be a shame to lose one of your class features at level 20 because you used it already at level 3.

[DonQuixote]

If you want a skillmonkey spellshaper off the Savant chassis, how about a spellshaping Indianna Jones type "archaeologist"?
Seeker of (historical) knowledge? Check.
Good excuse to have trapfinding and lots of skills? Check.
Open to more than just combat-related class features? Check.
What I wonder, though, is if it wouldn't mesh better mechanically with the Impulse Mage instead.

That would, indeed, be a much better approach for a skill-monkey savant.  Though I also agree that it might make more sense for an impulse mage.

Savant's Still Mind says it comes at 4th, but the table says 6th.

Savant's Knowledge: Clarity should reduce the miss chance that you and your allies suffer on attacks against the subjects, not their miss chance (which, used as a general term like that, would either be completely meaningless or be a buff to your enemies).

Edit: Savant's Knowledge (in the general description) mentions improving when you beat the DC by 5+, but all of the abilities' boosts are at 10+.

Is the limitation of using Savant's Knowledge actually supposed to be once ever per creature? You'd think it would be once per encounter or once per day or something. I know you don't meet that many recurring villains, but it would be a shame to lose one of your class features at level 20 because you used it already at level 3.

The flaws of basing my wording off of other, pre-existing things.  I'll fix it this weekend--I'm technically at work right now.  Don't tell my boss.  Edit: This has been done online.  Haven't had a chance to change the PDF yet.


Incidentally, for those who are wondering, this is what an epic-level hellbred Elemental Adept / Lavamancer / Spellforge Warsmith / Devoted Exemplar looks like.

[DonQuixote]

In terms of re-approaching the ashbound oracle, what if the gaze attack were traded for an AC bonus, the base attack bonus were increased to full, and you could use Fire Sight for a number of rounds per day equal to twice your shaper level?

[Bauglir]

Feat ideas

Armored Shaper [Fighter]
Prerequisite: Strength 13, Shaper Level 1st
Benefit: You have learned to make the exacting gestures that spellshaping requires despite hindrance from armor. Choose a spellshaping class in which you have levels. You suffer no failure chance for shaping a formula granted by that class in light armor or wielding a shield. Medium and heavy armor still impose their normal failure chances.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Each time you do, you ignore the failure chance for one heavier category of armor. Once you can ignore the chance of failure for all armor categories, you can no longer take this feat.
Special: If you already can ignore the failure chance for some category of armor, you gain the ability to ignore the failure chance from the next heaviest category of armor, as if you had taken this feat before.
Special: A Fighter may select this feat as a bonus feat.

Blended Teachings
Prerequisite: Shaper level 3rd, ability to ignore the failure chance for shaping in armor a formula granted by a particular class
Benefit: You have learned to combine the forms and styles granted by your spellshaping training. Any class feature or feat that allows you to ignore the failure chance for shaping a formula in armor for a particular class's formulae instead applies to formulae granted by any class.

[Garryl]

Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Each time you do, you ignore the failure chance for one heavier category of armor. Once you can ignore the chance of failure for any armor category, you can no longer take this feat.

Isn't the 3rd sentence a direct contradiction of the first two? If you meant that you can't take the feat any more once you already ignore the spell failure of all possible armor, then I don't see why that's even there since taking the feat again would be moot regardless.

[Bauglir]

I should change it to "All armor categories". I meant "any" to meant "any of them, regardless of which."

[Amechra]

Finally watching NGE? Good, it's a classic.

Notice anything about my avatar?

And I'm excited to hear about a new PDF; in honor of it coming out, I will make... a prestige class!

Probably mixing spellshaping with Warlocks (Eldritch Blast as a spellshape attack? WIN. Full stop.), or maybe with some other piece of homebrew that I have sitting around, gathering dust.

In other words... if I get it to you before you start working on everything, would you by any chance be willing to include it as official content?

I know, I overstepped my bounds! Please, not with the hose, not with the hose!

You know, with my laptop being non-com, I'll just post my ideas for you to peruse, so that you can hopefully get some inspiration from at least one of them.

-A PrC for the Spellshape Champion: The Orion's Bow.
Advances Blustering Gale and Natural Balance; focuses around channeling BG and NB Formulae through arrows, eventually being able to make their bow into a temporary Lamen, Multishot BG formulae, and make special arrows with NB powers.

-A general PrC for Brilliant Dawn and Crushing Stone: The Desert Walker
Advances the above two Circles, gives a Burrow speed, the ability to walk normally, and Fast Healing while on sand, the ability to convert stone into sand (makes Crushing Stone maneuvers deal slashing/piercing damage), and a way to extend/strengthen their Brilliant Dawn when in a desert. Capstone could be, I don't know, creating an area of desert around themselves that appears as they stay in one place, drying up wells, withering plants, increasing temperatures, you know, the usual.

-Prince of Persia: The Prc. Let's call it the Prince of Time.
Prc focused on Eternal Moment and Unseen Impetus; uses Unseen Impetus stuff to maneuver around like a BOSS (stuff like an Ex Balancing Lorecall (essentially makes epic Balance uses accessible to a low level character.)), and other quick movement abilities (steal stuff from the Swiftblade, and go from there.)

-A feat that let's you use Reserve feats as spellshape attacks for the purpose of shaping Formulae. Just because.

-?Something? That gives you the option to "charge" your spellshape attack, a la Megaman/Metroid.

I'll post more when I have time.

[DonQuixote]

I'll fix it this weekend--I'm technically at work right now.  Don't tell my boss.  Edit: This has been done online.  Haven't had a chance to change the PDF yet.

So, my schedule's been crazy lately, what with having an entire client dumped on me unexpectedly.  The PDF is going to be updated as soon as I find time to do it.

Feat ideas

Armored Shaper [Fighter]
Prerequisite: Strength 13, Shaper Level 1st
Benefit: You have learned to make the exacting gestures that spellshaping requires despite hindrance from armor. Choose a spellshaping class in which you have levels. You suffer no failure chance for shaping a formula granted by that class in light armor or wielding a shield. Medium and heavy armor still impose their normal failure chances.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Each time you do, you ignore the failure chance for one heavier category of armor. Once you can ignore the chance of failure for all armor categories, you can no longer take this feat.
Special: If you already can ignore the failure chance for some category of armor, you gain the ability to ignore the failure chance from the next heaviest category of armor, as if you had taken this feat before.
Special: A Fighter may select this feat as a bonus feat.

Blended Teachings
Prerequisite: Shaper level 3rd, ability to ignore the failure chance for shaping in armor a formula granted by a particular class
Benefit: You have learned to combine the forms and styles granted by your spellshaping training. Any class feature or feat that allows you to ignore the failure chance for shaping a formula in armor for a particular class's formulae instead applies to formulae granted by any class.

I'm sort of edgy about opening up armored spellshaping across the board, since it's kind of the spellshape champion's thing.  Bear in mind, most classes can already shape in light armor--I think the only exception is the spellsage.

The second feat, combined with a one-level dip in spellshape champion, renders the first feat somewhat redundant.  Sure, it's a one-level dip, but it's the difference between spending two feats to get to heavy armor and spending only one.  Plus, that one-level dip also gives you weapon proficiencies.

I know that, generally, wearing heavy armor isn't actually that big of an advantage over wearing light armor, but I still--for some reason--like the distinction.  I'll wrestle with the ideas.  I know my knee-jerk reaction on this one is somewhat unreasonable.

You know, with my laptop being non-com, I'll just post my ideas for you to peruse, so that you can hopefully get some inspiration from at least one of them.

-A PrC for the Spellshape Champion: The Orion's Bow.
Advances Blustering Gale and Natural Balance; focuses around channeling BG and NB Formulae through arrows, eventually being able to make their bow into a temporary Lamen, Multishot BG formulae, and make special arrows with NB powers.

-A general PrC for Brilliant Dawn and Crushing Stone: The Desert Walker
Advances the above two Circles, gives a Burrow speed, the ability to walk normally, and Fast Healing while on sand, the ability to convert stone into sand (makes Crushing Stone maneuvers deal slashing/piercing damage), and a way to extend/strengthen their Brilliant Dawn when in a desert. Capstone could be, I don't know, creating an area of desert around themselves that appears as they stay in one place, drying up wells, withering plants, increasing temperatures, you know, the usual.

-Prince of Persia: The Prc. Let's call it the Prince of Time.
Prc focused on Eternal Moment and Unseen Impetus; uses Unseen Impetus stuff to maneuver around like a BOSS (stuff like an Ex Balancing Lorecall (essentially makes epic Balance uses accessible to a low level character.)), and other quick movement abilities (steal stuff from the Swiftblade, and go from there.)

-A feat that let's you use Reserve feats as spellshape attacks for the purpose of shaping Formulae. Just because.

-?Something? That gives you the option to "charge" your spellshape attack, a la Megaman/Metroid.

I'll post more when I have time.

Intriguing ideas.  I will point out, in terms of the Orion's Bow, that I am--technically--planning a ranged-weapon-based spellshaping base class.  Maybe I should tackle that next instead of my to-do list.  Might get me out of this rut--though, unfortunately, the frustrating nature of the anchorite is far from the only thing stymieing my progress at the moment.

[Bauglir]

Perhaps change Blended Teachings to let you apply a single class's armored shaping to only one other class? So, if you for some reason were a Spellshape Champion/Spellsage/Elemental Adept, you could shape EITHER your Spellsage or your Elemental Adept formulae in heavy armor, but you'd have to take the feat a second time to do both?

[Amechra]

Send me the notes for what you are planning for the Anchorite, and I'll do them for you.

I mean, how hard could it be?

Hmm...

[pppp]

Can illusions created by Illusory Legion formula attack on their own or only perform attacks of opportunity?

[Garryl]

Feat ideas

Armored Shaper [Fighter]
Prerequisite: Strength 13, Shaper Level 1st
Benefit: You have learned to make the exacting gestures that spellshaping requires despite hindrance from armor. Choose a spellshaping class in which you have levels. You suffer no failure chance for shaping a formula granted by that class in light armor or wielding a shield. Medium and heavy armor still impose their normal failure chances.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Each time you do, you ignore the failure chance for one heavier category of armor. Once you can ignore the chance of failure for all armor categories, you can no longer take this feat.
Special: If you already can ignore the failure chance for some category of armor, you gain the ability to ignore the failure chance from the next heaviest category of armor, as if you had taken this feat before.
Special: A Fighter may select this feat as a bonus feat.

Blended Teachings
Prerequisite: Shaper level 3rd, ability to ignore the failure chance for shaping in armor a formula granted by a particular class
Benefit: You have learned to combine the forms and styles granted by your spellshaping training. Any class feature or feat that allows you to ignore the failure chance for shaping a formula in armor for a particular class's formulae instead applies to formulae granted by any class.

I'm sort of edgy about opening up armored spellshaping across the board, since it's kind of the spellshape champion's thing.  Bear in mind, most classes can already shape in light armor--I think the only exception is the spellsage.

The second feat, combined with a one-level dip in spellshape champion, renders the first feat somewhat redundant.  Sure, it's a one-level dip, but it's the difference between spending two feats to get to heavy armor and spending only one.  Plus, that one-level dip also gives you weapon proficiencies.

I know that, generally, wearing heavy armor isn't actually that big of an advantage over wearing light armor, but I still--for some reason--like the distinction.  I'll wrestle with the ideas.  I know my knee-jerk reaction on this one is somewhat unreasonable.

You can already do this with 2 feats and a 1 level dip (Martial Study + Martial Study/Stance + Edgewalker Knight 1), so it's not like it's an option that hasn't been available before.

[DonQuixote]

Perhaps change Blended Teachings to let you apply a single class's armored shaping to only one other class? So, if you for some reason were a Spellshape Champion/Spellsage/Elemental Adept, you could shape EITHER your Spellsage or your Elemental Adept formulae in heavy armor, but you'd have to take the feat a second time to do both?

That would make a great deal more sense, and would be in keeping with the general way such feats work.

You can already do this with 2 feats and a 1 level dip (Martial Study + Martial Study/Stance + Edgewalker Knight 1), so it's not like it's an option that hasn't been available before.

As I said, I know that my gut reaction here is silly and unreasonable.  In the end, I'll almost certainly allow some sort of feat of this kind.

Send me the notes for what you are planning for the Anchorite, and I'll do them for you.

I mean, how hard could it be?

Hmm...

I don't actually have any notes--the entire problem I'm having is that I can't figure out a decent way to replace the auras.  Whatever the replacement is, it has to fit into some kind of on/off format, divided by circle.  Otherwise, the recovery mechanic breaks.

Can illusions created by Illusory Legion formula attack on their own or only perform attacks of opportunity?

The illusions can only perform attacks of opportunity.

[Garryl]

Send me the notes for what you are planning for the Anchorite, and I'll do them for you.

I mean, how hard could it be?

Hmm...

I don't actually have any notes--the entire problem I'm having is that I can't figure out a decent way to replace the auras.  Whatever the replacement is, it has to fit into some kind of on/off format, divided by circle.  Otherwise, the recovery mechanic breaks.

The recovery mechanic already breaks (softly) if you remove the spellshape auras alone. If you're getting rid of them and replacing them with something else, just do a similar replacement with the swift action full circle component of the recovery. Or dump that component entirely.

[DonQuixote]

The recovery mechanic already breaks (softly) if you remove the spellshape auras alone. If you're getting rid of them and replacing them with something else, just do a similar replacement with the swift action full circle component of the recovery. Or dump that component entirely.

Well, the current plan is to pull an Indiana Jones and swap the statue for a bag of sand.  My various ideas have all hinged on being a similar structure to the auras, but achieving different things.

[Garryl]

... you know that didn't work in the movie, right?

[Amechra]

I have an idea related to Ioun stones...

Why? Because they are awesome.

[DonQuixote]

... you know that didn't work in the movie, right?

Yes.  It's the perfect analogy, really.  My attempts to do so resulted in a giant boulder of confusion and uncertainty.  I'm still running.

I have an idea related to Ioun stones...

Why? Because they are awesome.

Oh dear.  For some reason, this worries me.