Author Topic: Vote(d) 2012 ... can't mediate the Ho Ho's  (Read 128676 times)

Offline altpersona

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Re: Vote 2012 ... "surrey with the Fringe on top" edition.
« Reply #120 on: February 06, 2012, 12:59:24 PM »
the blatant reason for the second amendment is defense against the government.

not hunting, nor self protection against simple crime.

as long as the gov has weapons, the people need the same weapons.

and i want an AA12.
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Offline darqueseid

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Re: Vote 2012 ... "surrey with the Fringe on top" edition.
« Reply #121 on: February 06, 2012, 01:33:26 PM »
AA12??  Pshhh small potatoes, I want an ICBM then.  With a mirv warhead.  if government has it then I should be able to.    At least some chemical nerve agent weapons too...

Offline X-Codes

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Re: Vote 2012 ... "surrey with the Fringe on top" edition.
« Reply #122 on: February 06, 2012, 02:18:37 PM »
What protects people from their government are supposed to be their elected representatives.  If we had an electoral system that wasn't completely borked, we wouldn't need the 2nd amendment.

Offline darqueseid

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Re: Vote 2012 ... "surrey with the Fringe on top" edition.
« Reply #123 on: February 06, 2012, 03:06:37 PM »
What protects people from their government are supposed to be their elected representatives.  If we had an electoral system that wasn't completely borked, we wouldn't need the 2nd amendment.

absolutely right.
+1


Offline altpersona

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Re: Vote 2012 ... "surrey with the Fringe on top" edition.
« Reply #124 on: February 06, 2012, 03:16:50 PM »
the 2nd is plan b for when the civilized elector system fails.

you should never need plan b, but you never get rid of it.
The goal of power is power. - 1984
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Offline bhu

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Re: Vote 2012 ... "surrey with the Fringe on top" edition.
« Reply #125 on: February 06, 2012, 03:23:04 PM »
I would personally only feel safe with my own network of orbital death ray satellites.  Or optionally mind control.

An AA-12 would be damn fun though

"What the hell do you need an automatic shotgun for."   :twitch

"Squirrels."    :psyduck
« Last Edit: February 06, 2012, 03:25:03 PM by bhu »

Offline altpersona

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Re: Vote 2012 ... "surrey with the Fringe on top" edition.
« Reply #126 on: February 06, 2012, 03:26:50 PM »
forgot to readdress the aa12 vs icbm.

shot gun shells are much cheaper than icbm's and easier to find a place to use them without much trouble.

but for the right $$ i would not turn down either.
The goal of power is power. - 1984
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The Final Countdown is now stuck in your head.

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Offline darqueseid

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Re: Vote 2012 ... "surrey with the Fringe on top" edition.
« Reply #127 on: February 06, 2012, 04:32:51 PM »
ICBM is mutually assured destruction, you pretty much set it off when somone is attacking or about to kill you anyway. So pesky concerns about collateral damage shouldn't concern you so much as getting whoever it was that was attacking you- as long as their dead who cares who else you take out along the way?   The idea is, the government won't mess with you if they see an ICBM sitting in your backyard, its preventative. 

Offline X-Codes

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Re: Vote 2012 ... "surrey with the Fringe on top" edition.
« Reply #128 on: February 06, 2012, 05:13:06 PM »
Mutually assured destruction, however, is a terrible way to enforce peace.

Offline Hallack

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Re: Vote 2012 ... "surrey with the Fringe on top" edition.
« Reply #129 on: February 06, 2012, 05:27:12 PM »
(click to show/hide)

I started to just LOL and move on figuring this must be just some fun trolling given the obvious misunderstandings and misrepresentations contained.  But then I considered and figured most are unlikely to put this much effort into such trolling.  And so some counterpoints follow.....

1)   Actually, what you are saying is that Ron Paul DOES support EQUAL rights, not only for minorities but for majorities as well.  Affirmative Action was not equal rights but legislated unequal rights.  Yes, there were and are discriminator asshats out there.  This does not mean Ron (or others against affirmative action) are racist pigs nor does it mean we think such behavior is good or right. 

Discriminating at PRIVATE schools.  The key word here that you point out is private.  Government should not be telling people what to do regarding private schools any more than they should regarding private lives.  The position being construed as against minorities is in fact simply a matter of protecting privacy rights.  That means protecting the rights of people to associate and use their private property how they choose even if we find their preferences repugnant. 

H. J. RES. 42 ---- The horror of trying to protect parental rights
(click to show/hide)

H. J. RES. 46 -- The horror of trying to end the legal (but abused according to some) 'anchor baby' allowing aspect of our constitution which encourages and promotes illegal immigration.  (Personally, I'm fine with open borders.)
(click to show/hide)

2) Ummmm, wrong.  Yes, Ron personally is opposed to abortion.  No, he is not trying to take away a women's rights.  He is in favor of seeing that the unborn's rights are protected but the Sanctity of life legislation you mention does not make abortion illegal.  In fact it puts the matter squarely in the hands of each individual state.  Yes, it does ruin Roe vs Wade by removing the courts jurisdiction in the matter.  Consider for a moment the inconsistency we have legally in our nation at this time regarding the unborn.  A person can be charged with murder for harming the unborn in motor accidents or other cases.  Doctors can be held liable for murder if they incorrectly treat the mother and the unborn.  But then on the other hand they can be aborted and all is well.  Wither one is in favor of or against abortion the plain fact is that there is a huge inconsistency in the law. 

3) You do realize that the minimum wage hurts more of the poor than it helps.  Minimum wage laws make it cost more to employ individuals thus causing businesses to invest in equipment to do the work instead of paying a worker.  Get rid of the minimum wage and you will see a sharp increase in the number of employed individuals.  As it stands now many would be happy to have a job even one that pays less than the current minium wage.  Tough shit poor people... thats illegal.  You can't have such a job.  I'm not even going to try and get into how minimum wage crap just translates into higher costs of business which is then passed on in the prices which the poor are less able to afford.  Here is a decent starter article on the topic  http://www.lewrockwell.com/ostrowski/ostrowski77.html

I'd love to get rid of OSHA and other such nonsense myself.  Most folks I know that have to deal with the related regulations would also love to get rid of them.  I'm not talking the business owners.   I'm talking the joe schmoe's busting their asses doing the work.  Well intended, these things do have some benefit (I don't deny it).  There is a great deal of unintended consequences as well that hurt businesses and jobs.  Bottom line on safety is that even without OSHA type stuff there is legal recourse for the case of negligence and such that lead to worker harm. 

On social security... OH NO!!! He wants to allow me not to have to participate in a system I do not want.  The horror.  You also realize I believe that moneys employers are forced to pay on behalf of their employees into said system is just wages they do not have available to pay better wages, benefits, or otherwise use to make their businesses more efficient and profitable.

4) How is it just and good for the government to be able to take a huge chunk of value out of Gifts or Estates being given/passed on?  Should we not be able to give gifts and leave inheritances of what we have earned without being robbed by the government?


Nevermind, I see now that these are not even your own thoughts and words but copied and pasted from this blog or other source... http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/01/04/10-reasons-not-to-vote-for-paul/  (Unless the author happens to be you in which case I apologize)

Bottom line is that whoever wrote that nonsense originally I think had to go out of their way to twist and misrepresent.  I do not believe they are likely to be stupid enough to believe the logically inconsistent nonsense they wrote.   

It no doubt would be a waste of my time to continue on to each point refuting them.  Anyone even half interested can find that the "10 Reasons" is a bunch of bullshit. 

Cheers.


Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Vote 2012 ... "surrey with the Fringe on top" edition.
« Reply #130 on: February 06, 2012, 05:40:58 PM »
It'll be a while before a legit Libertarian
gets "stuck" with having to actually run
a state government. Either as Governor
or as a majority of a state house/senate.
Good luck then.

Until that day symbolic politics will get used
over and over as a campaign finance tactic.
Half the stuff that gets run up for a vote,
is just a flier for the dingbatty elements,
in any belief system. (usa style that is)

Your codpiece is a mimic.

Offline X-Codes

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Re: Vote 2012 ... "surrey with the Fringe on top" edition.
« Reply #131 on: February 06, 2012, 07:08:35 PM »
1)   Actually, what you are saying is that Ron Paul DOES support EQUAL rights, not only for minorities but for majorities as well.  Affirmative Action was not equal rights but legislated unequal rights.  Yes, there were and are discriminator asshats out there.  This does not mean Ron (or others against affirmative action) are racist pigs nor does it mean we think such behavior is good or right.
Reverse racism is bullshit.  I would agree that the time for affirmative action has passed, but there is a difference between affirmative action and simply enforcing a law mandating that the color of a person's skin not be a deciding factor in the decisions of an establishment.

Discriminating at PRIVATE schools.  The key word here that you point out is private.  Government should not be telling people what to do regarding private schools any more than they should regarding private lives.  The position being construed as against minorities is in fact simply a matter of protecting privacy rights.  That means protecting the rights of people to associate and use their private property how they choose even if we find their preferences repugnant.
Their preferences aren't just repugnant, but the simple act of saying "No Coloreds Allowed" empowers a societal bias against minorities, and that societal bias has been found to be unacceptable by the overwhelming majority of the population.

H. J. RES. 42 ---- The horror of trying to protect parental rights
(click to show/hide)
This is complete nonsense.  There are three ways to interpret this bill: the first is that there is absolutely nothing legally binding about it at all, the second is that it would destroy the public school system because it's simply impossible to accommodate every parent of every student ever, and the third is that it would make the entire public school system unconstitutional, since public schools are state institutions, and simply putting together a course curriculum contrary to one parent whose child attends that school would violate the constitution.

H. J. RES. 46 -- The horror of trying to end the legal (but abused according to some) 'anchor baby' allowing aspect of our constitution which encourages and promotes illegal immigration.  (Personally, I'm fine with open borders.)
(click to show/hide)
Overt racism.

2) Ummmm, wrong.  Yes, Ron personally is opposed to abortion.  No, he is not trying to take away a women's rights.  He is in favor of seeing that the unborn's rights are protected but the Sanctity of life legislation you mention does not make abortion illegal.  In fact it puts the matter squarely in the hands of each individual state.  Yes, it does ruin Roe vs Wade by removing the courts jurisdiction in the matter.  Consider for a moment the inconsistency we have legally in our nation at this time regarding the unborn.  A person can be charged with murder for harming the unborn in motor accidents or other cases.  Doctors can be held liable for murder if they incorrectly treat the mother and the unborn.  But then on the other hand they can be aborted and all is well.  Wither one is in favor of or against abortion the plain fact is that there is a huge inconsistency in the law.
Delicate moral, ethical, and often also medical issues, therefore shove big government up women's vaginas.  Does that sound painful?  It doesn't sound painful enough, because the practical implications of what amending the constitution to overturn Roe v Wade are way more painful.

3) You do realize that the minimum wage hurts more of the poor than it helps.  Minimum wage laws make it cost more to employ individuals thus causing businesses to invest in equipment to do the work instead of paying a worker.  Get rid of the minimum wage and you will see a sharp increase in the number of employed individuals.  As it stands now many would be happy to have a job even one that pays less than the current minium wage.  Tough shit poor people... thats illegal.  You can't have such a job.  I'm not even going to try and get into how minimum wage crap just translates into higher costs of business which is then passed on in the prices which the poor are less able to afford.  Here is a decent starter article on the topic  http://www.lewrockwell.com/ostrowski/ostrowski77.html
Numerous fallacies here:

1) Machines do not replace people.  At a minimum, you need people to service the machines, and you need more people to educate the first people.  You also need assembly plant workers to make the machines and replacement parts and electric company workers to produce the energy needed to power the machines.  Furthermore, the machine will only be made in the first place if it fulfills some desire for some number of consumers such that it will be profitable for the guy making the machine.  In other words, the amount of work being produced by all employed people + the work being produced by that machine will always be less than or equal to the demand for goods and services in the market.

2) "Employed" is not a meaningful term.  As is, people are employed, but still not getting enough income to actually survive.

3) People who are willing to do the same job for less are idiots.  The way in this applies differs from person to person and job to job, but name a job that someone is willing to work for below minimum wage and I could suggest a possible reason.

4) The price you pay for McDonalds is not at all based on the cost of making the food, it's based on how much people at large are willing to pay for it.  This is why you hear stock market gurus talk about the ability of businesses to pass on increased costs to their customers, because sometimes they can (because the customer is willing to foot the higher bill), and sometimes they can't (the opposite is true).  If the cost of making the food to sell is less than the cost people are willing to pay, then you have business.  If not, then you don't.

On social security... OH NO!!! He wants to allow me not to have to participate in a system I do not want.  The horror.  You also realize I believe that moneys employers are forced to pay on behalf of their employees into said system is just wages they do not have available to pay better wages, benefits, or otherwise use to make their businesses more efficient and profitable.
Not surprisingly, wrong again.  Social Security is not a ponzi scheme, it is a tax on working people to keep a large group of vulnerable citizens out of poverty, because people who collect social security are far more likely to be plain physically incapable of doing most jobs.

4) How is it just and good for the government to be able to take a huge chunk of value out of Gifts or Estates being given/passed on?  Should we not be able to give gifts and leave inheritances of what we have earned without being robbed by the government?
Gifts I can somewhat understand.  Estate tax, though?  What do you care?  You're dead.  If you raised your kids right, then let them get by on their own merits, not ride daddy's coattails even while he's chilling with [insert dead prophet of choice here].  99% of Americans work hard for dirt, the least Mitt Romney's kids can do is push papers and shuffle money around to scam their own wealth out of someone else like their old man did.

It no doubt would be a waste of my time to continue on to each point refuting them.  Anyone even half interested can find that the "10 Reasons" is a bunch of bullshit. 

Cheers.
If we give Ron Paul the benefit of the doubt, then he is still, at a minimum, horribly naive.  If we take him at his word that he intends to do great things with these bills he has brought forward, then it's our absolute responsibility to keep him from becoming president such that the unintended consequences of his actions cannot set the country back 100 years.

Offline darqueseid

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Re: Vote 2012 ... "surrey with the Fringe on top" edition.
« Reply #132 on: February 06, 2012, 07:11:23 PM »
Hallack,
Well, I'm not really trying to debate the issues per se, only showing what Ron Paul has supported in the past.  I've produced the actual bills that he supported to prove what he says.  I'm not dealing in conjecture, I'm dealing in facts. 

#1 Affirmative action was actually not legislated, if we're dealing in facts, it was an executive order that pertains only to federal contractors and its subcontractors. 
Indeed, the points systems colleges used as admission criteria that is often pointed at by conservatives as an evil of affirmative action was ruled unconstitutional in "Grutter v. Bollinger, 539 US 306 - Supreme Court 2003". 

The only "legislation" we have is the civil rights act of 1964, which actually just "prohibits discrimination by covered employers on the basis of race, color, religion, sex or national origin (see 42 U.S.C. § 2000e-2[32])".  It prohibits, it doesn't force an employer to hire anyone.    Really, we don't have affirmative action in the private sector(including private schools) beyond that which has been self-imposed, and even that is on shaky ground constitutionally.   As far as the affirmative action in government contractors goes, it was originally put into place to combat institutional racism and disparate impact in employment practices(which are still widespread). 

It is important for members of a majority to ensure a diverse government more than anywhere else because we must maintain a diverse government when dealing with a diverse populace, in order to ensure that the rights given by said government are applied as equally as possible.    YOU may not agree with my reason as to why it is important in government, but the fact is Ron Paul would remove it, and it is a position that is terrible and I personally can't support it. 

the problem with private school segregation is that Ron Paul would do away with the public school system altogether, and private schools would be all thats left.

As to the bills, protecting parental rights is not as important as ensuring that we don't step backwards into an era where discrimination is sanctioned by government entities, be it at the state or federal level.  Currently Parents now are free to home-school or put thier children into private schools that can freely discriminate as you suggest. But under Ron Paul, parents wouldn't have the option to send to a public school that doesnt' discriminate. 

And unless you are a full blooded native american, your an anchor baby too. 

#2 Roe v Wade is important, not only in the service of abortion, but also in that the government can not tell a person what to do with thier bodies.  It is a libertarian ruling as much as it is a pro-choice ruling.  It is also precicely the kind of issue the courts were meant to decide.  To introduce legislation that would overturn it, would open the door to the government making other medical decisions for you. such as forcing doctors to treat you to save your life even if you don't want the treatment.  its the same argument, "but we're saving a life?!?!".  Beyond the liberty problems, if Ron Paul supports allowing even one state to outlaw abortion he is at least tacitly supporting a part of the government telling a woman what to go do with her body.  And that is not right and it is certainly not in the interest of liberty.  I agree there is inconsistency in the law, but that doesn't mean you strip away the right to choose that women have had for 40 years, you fix the inconsistencies, without trampling peoples rights.
 
#3 your article off clearly a conservative propaganda site, doesn't persuade me that your argument has any basis in fact.  I'd rather look at peer reviewed studies, than just some BS about "economic logic" that some guy pulled out his ass.  Here I can link sites too, except my article talks about peer reviewed studies on the impact of the minimum wage by major universities, not just made up conjecture: 
http://www.americanprogressaction.org/issues/2011/06/higher_minimum_wage.html

Getting rid of OSHA is a great idea if you want to go back to the good old days of "the Jungle" where people daily lost thier lives in the meatpacking industry and the companies gave two shits. 

as to your #4, the estate tax is lower than it has ever been, down from 50% to 35% at the top income levels.  So you can leave 65% of your fortune to your beneficiaries, but most wealthy gift away alot of thier wealth through trusts tax free.  and as to the 35% to the goverment? consider it a tax on being lucky enough to be born in a country where you can make that kind of fortune.   I don't have much sympathy for wealthy children, who are only going to get 65% of 10 million dollars, they'll be fine.  when I die I'm not leaving my children enough money to where they can just screw off the rest of thier lives they'll need to work and contribute something to society even if I had 40 billion dollars I wouldn't give them that much.

As to the rest of your argument you didn't really put up any proof of anything being misrepresented.  you didn't quote any opposing resolutions, or put up any CRedible articles that anyone could believe.   I challenge you to PROVE your points next time, don't just ramble on and say something is bullshit with no back up.   
« Last Edit: February 06, 2012, 07:14:04 PM by darqueseid »

Offline bhu

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Re: Vote 2012 ... "surrey with the Fringe on top" edition.
« Reply #133 on: February 06, 2012, 07:28:54 PM »
ICBM is mutually assured destruction, you pretty much set it off when somone is attacking or about to kill you anyway. So pesky concerns about collateral damage shouldn't concern you so much as getting whoever it was that was attacking you- as long as their dead who cares who else you take out along the way?   The idea is, the government won't mess with you if they see an ICBM sitting in your backyard, its preventative.

and one guy claims you can build one for only 5K sans explosives

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKvf5-rAKwE

sheer wtfery


Offline veekie

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Re: Vote 2012 ... "surrey with the Fringe on top" edition.
« Reply #134 on: February 07, 2012, 03:56:38 AM »
Mutually assured destruction, however, is a terrible way to enforce peace.
It can bring peace just fine though. Once all the smoke is gone there won't be anyone left to fight with, on any side.
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
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Offline skydragonknight

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Re: Vote 2012 ... "surrey with the Fringe on top" edition.
« Reply #135 on: February 07, 2012, 08:02:15 AM »
4) How is it just and good for the government to be able to take a huge chunk of value out of Gifts or Estates being given/passed on?  Should we not be able to give gifts and leave inheritances of what we have earned without being robbed by the government?

Money that you've personally earned is one thing. Money someone else has earned is something else entirely. I personally don't think anyone should get a free pass at life just because of what what their parents did. At least with 35% taken off, they'll have to work 1/3rd as hard as their parent to maintain the same level of wealth. I hope that isn't too much to ask.
Hmm.

Offline dman11235

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Re: Vote 2012 ... "surrey with the Fringe on top" edition.
« Reply #136 on: February 07, 2012, 09:14:52 AM »
Of course, sometimes you don't need to work hard at all to be wealthy....in fact, sometimes it seems that the ONLY way to be really wealthy is to get a job where you don't have to work hard.
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Offline Hallack

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Re: Vote 2012 ... "surrey with the Fringe on top" edition.
« Reply #137 on: February 07, 2012, 09:29:27 AM »
4) How is it just and good for the government to be able to take a huge chunk of value out of Gifts or Estates being given/passed on?  Should we not be able to give gifts and leave inheritances of what we have earned without being robbed by the government?

Money that you've personally earned is one thing. Money someone else has earned is something else entirely. I personally don't think anyone should get a free pass at life just because of what what their parents did. At least with 35% taken off, they'll have to work 1/3rd as hard as their parent to maintain the same level of wealth. I hope that isn't too much to ask.

Well for one thing they are not asking.  They are taking under threat of force.  The principle here is taking from one group to give to another.  It does not matter that we think the people being taxed can afford it.  It usually just makes it easier as it is not our stuff being taken and we can say it is for the greater good or some such bs. 

If we applied this principle across the board we'd be taking 35% of Christmas and birthday gifts from everyone (or the equivalent value).  I hope that isn't too much to ask.  After all it is gifts and therefore things that those receiving them didn't really need or deserve.  Same principle as the Gift tax above applied to us. 

If it was our 35% being taken I bet most of us would change our tune. 

Cheers

Offline veekie

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Re: Vote 2012 ... "surrey with the Fringe on top" edition.
« Reply #138 on: February 07, 2012, 10:47:03 AM »
^^
Actually, the law's purpose is less redistribution and more tax evasion related. Its a fairly common tax evasion strategy for the rich to move their wealth around by 'giving' gifts of extreme monetary size to each other or family, gifts that would count as transactions otherwise and be taxed. This allows them to effectively alter their tax bracket, especially when the gifts are straight cash. Inheritance taxes likewise, control this wealth movement, by taxing a proportion of it for large inheritances. Taxes for investments vs charitable works is another angle thats often exploited by creative accounting.

At least thats how it works in theory. This has very direct benefits for public works funding, due to the sheer volume of otherwise untaxed wealth going around. Its got basically nothing to do with the man on the street, because generally their inheritances aren't large enough to be taxable, and more importantly, they cannot afford to hire creative accountants for their taxes.
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
It's a god-eat-god world.

Procrastination is the thief of time; Year after year it steals, till all are fled,
And to the mercies of a moment leaves; The vast concerns of an eternal scene.

Offline darqueseid

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Re: Vote 2012 ... "surrey with the Fringe on top" edition.
« Reply #139 on: February 07, 2012, 11:04:16 AM »
@Hallack so much is wrong with that statement I hardly know where to begin.

#1,  Noones FORCING you to pay taxes because, noones fORCIng you to live in the US.  Threat of force is BS, if you don't like paying your share to a country that has made you wealthy then you are always absolutely free to leave.  And good riddance.  If you want to share in the good parts of this country you have to share the burden as well.  If you own more of the resources you SHOULD pay more to maintain the government that has made you wealthy.  In practice the rich pay far less percentage wise than working americans do anyway.   

#2, The government IS asking, charitable donations, and money given to beneficiaries is not taxed up to a certain amount, (1mil for beneficiaries and 5 mil for charities).  So really, the government is asking you to  donate to them if you want to pass more money on to your beneficiaries.  if you want to donate to whatever charity you prefer, you can, tax free.  And you can start before you die, so that over time you can pretty much avoid taxes altogether.  Warren buffet and Bill gates the two richest men in america have both pleged to give the largess of thier fortune away, and btw they pay less taxes than most ordinary americans(warren claimed he paid 11% in taxes last year?!? less than half of what I paid).   

#2 Yes. we are taking from one group to give to those people who cannot support themselves, get over it.  Or better yet, if you don't like where the government allocates funds, give it to the charity of your choice. 
-The VAST majority of those people on social security and social security disability NEED that money to survive.  The SSA recently estimated that one in 3 people will be truly disabled such that they absolutely cannot work before they reach retirement age from illness or injury, meaning that they will need to get money from somewhere just to subsist.   ONE THIRD of all people, at least one third of people are absolutely not gaming the system because they are actually disabled... hmm what else is one third?  Income tax maybe?  Your taxes pay for people to survive- maybe that doesn't mean anything to you but for me, it is strictly a moral issue.  Mahatma Ghandi said, "A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members."

-Oh and I say SUBSIST(Definition: Maintain or support oneself, esp. at a minimal level.) because it truly is a minimal level.  My uncle has parkinsons disease and he can barely walk, let alone leave his house, and he gets a check from SSA for 980$ a month... a MONTh.. he actually can't live on that, if he didn't have some money saved before he got sick he would be SOL.  It is BARELY getting by at best, so don't try to tell me that a huge percentage of people are trying to get a handout by living on disability.   And you know what? if only 10% of people truly living with disabilities were taken care of it would be worth it to me.  Maybe it would need some reform, but the principle of taking from the rich to support people who cannot support themselves is sound.

#3  I don't know about you, but I get taxed on some money at one third, I mean I pay my fair share to the government, and if I were even more wealthy, I already said I wouldn't HAVE to pay 35% to the government, I would be free to donate to whatever cause I believe in, which is what most wealthy do.

Your analogy about christmas gifts is absurd really, considering anyone can gift up to 13,000$ tax free once per year per person.  And if your giving a gift over that amount then yes, you should pay taxes on it, consider it a luxury tax for living in a country that has made you lucky enough to give that kind of money away.