Low-End OOC thread.

[Scout89]

Honestly, I would strongly advise not taking Weapon Focus with a Real Robot. Apart from the fact you're basically asking for 'weapon focus: one-handed blades', the class is pretty much built around upgrading, replacing, and swapping parts out. You're pretty much shooting yourself in the foot by taking a class that goes in for modularity and then restricting yourself like that. 


It works better with Super Robots, honestly (Main Weapon, upgrade that, focus on pimping the mecha and using the one weapon).

I didn't say I was going to take it. I asked because, if he considered that weapon a longsword, I might consider focusing on that kind of weapon.
I thought about building a Super Robot, but there's no way a Super be as effective as a Real Robot in early levels as a melee unit. If I spend all upgrade points in plating and agility, I'll have an AC of 16 + DEX modifier. And I'll have two low-damage attacks. With a Real Robot my AC can start at 18 + DEX and have better damaging weapons.

Weapon Focus is very rarely worth taking as a feat in any situation. There are other, better, sources of attack bonuses if that's what you need.

If you want to go TWF with a Real Robot, my recommendation would be to take one plasma sword and one steel knife. The knife has the defensive property, which lets you use it as an immediate action. So attack with the plasma sword on your turn, and the knife on your opponent's turn. Two attacks with no need for the TWF feat and no attack penalty.

You say Weapon Specialization is not a good deal?
I agree with the Steel Knife part, but with the TWF feat I can attack twice on my turn and once on the enemy's turn. With all those attacks, I can mitigate the low damage output due to low STR. I know that -2 to both attacks is a pain in lower levels, but I want to have the option of using both or one of the weapons in combat. If it's hard to hit an enemy, I'll just attack with one hand to increase the odds.

[Raineh Daze]

+1 just to damage, in exchange for a pair of feats and being a particular class? Bad, bad deal.

I'm not entirely sure what point Super Robots actually start to equal Real Robots (if any), which really isn't helped by giving the small level 1 real robot a 1d12 ranged attack. And flight. And a +3 bonus to hit. And then at the high end you get a Real Robot with a 20d8 attack, more HP, more armour, more DR, and a bigger save bonus. Before you start stacking things on it. Also huge energy, and a beam coat.

... I still say something is up with the balance on that. You get to customise, but if you try and specialise you're outdone, and if you generalise, uh... that's not very Super at all.

Looking at the Arsenal, you can take these twothings, stack them on the above mecha, and still have space for that Graviton Cannon or the Neo-Chakram Caster. Oh, and you can buff energy regeneration.

(click to show/hide)

Steel Soul(VII):+4 Dodge Bonus, +6 Armor, +4 DR, +4 to all attack rolls, +4 to all saves.

Z.O Armor(VII): +10 Armor bonus, +16 DR, +2 Fort Saves.

So, uh even if they don't stack, that's still a huge bunch of buffs on top of something strong to start with. :/

[Scout89]

+1 just to damage, in exchange for a pair of feats and being a particular class? Bad, bad deal.

I'm not entirely sure what point Super Robots actually start to equal Real Robots (if any), which really isn't helped by giving the small level 1 real robot a 1d12 ranged attack. And flight. And a +3 bonus to hit. And then at the high end you get a Real Robot with a 20d8 attack, more HP, more armour, more DR, and a bigger save bonus. Before you start stacking things on it. Also huge energy, and a beam coat.

... I still say something is up with the balance on that. You get to customise, but if you try and specialise you're outdone, and if you generalise, uh... that's not very Super at all.

Looking at the Arsenal, you can take these twothings, stack them on the above mecha, and still have space for that Graviton Cannon or the Neo-Chakram Caster. Oh, and you can buff energy regeneration.

(click to show/hide)

Steel Soul(VII):+4 Dodge Bonus, +6 Armor, +4 DR, +4 to all attack rolls, +4 to all saves.

Z.O Armor(VII): +10 Armor bonus, +16 DR, +2 Fort Saves.

So, uh even if they don't stack, that's still a huge bunch of buffs on top of something strong to start with. :/

Both feats total +1 to attack and +2 to damage. For a two-weapon fighter that gives up his STR for DEX, a +2 to damage can easely compensate it. And, in the future, with two more feats he can get +2 to attack and +4 to damage. I think it is worth it.

[Raineh Daze]

You've also taken a penalty to your attack by using two weapons, which isn't compensated for by the weapon focus (especially because, unless they're both 'light' weapons, the penalty is bigger), and whilst that SHOULD increase damage output, you've got the strength penalty, loss of the extra 0.5x strength to your damage, and the weapons do less damage individually (though, in this case, there's a distinct lack of two-handed weapons). So, in short, you basically spend four feats (and three more if you want another off-hand attack to have the same potential damage) to not even catch up before adding in bonuses that said two-handed fighter could be receiving. See the problem?

[Nanshork]

Attacking with two-weapons is only a good option if you have a source of bonus damage dice like sneak attack.  Otherwise Power Attacking with a two-handed weapon is going to do significantly more damage with a higher chance of hitting.

[Scout89]

You've also taken a penalty to your attack by using two weapons, which isn't compensated for by the weapon focus (especially because, unless they're both 'light' weapons, the penalty is bigger), and whilst that SHOULD increase damage output, you've got the strength penalty, loss of the extra 0.5x strength to your damage, and the weapons do less damage individually (though, in this case, there's a distinct lack of two-handed weapons). So, in short, you basically spend four feats (and three more if you want another off-hand attack to have the same potential damage) to not even catch up before adding in bonuses that said two-handed fighter could be receiving. See the problem?

Hmm... You're right. I wasn't considering that. Have to think about it.

Attacking with two-weapons is only a good option if you have a source of bonus damage dice like sneak attack.  Otherwise Power Attacking with a two-handed weapon is going to do significantly more damage with a higher chance of hitting.

But there are no two-handers in mech combat yet. I'd have to use an Assault Blade until they show up. IF they show up.

[Raineh Daze]

Use a one-handed sword, wield it two-handed, and have a shield (because mecha shields are bolted to your arm)? No dexterity dependency, another 0.5x strength damage. Or, as someone said, take the steel knife/assault blade combo (which still works with the shield).

[Kuroimaken]

TWF works best with a source of extra damage applicable to EACH attack (in which case attack number is a force of multiplication) and/or something that allows you to get a LOT more extra attacks per weapon wielded. Otherwise... Typically not worth it.

[oslecamo]

Despite the SRD races restriction I assume that Azurin will be allowed?

Yes.

You've also taken a penalty to your attack by using two weapons, which isn't compensated for by the weapon focus (especially because, unless they're both 'light' weapons, the penalty is bigger), and whilst that SHOULD increase damage output, you've got the strength penalty, loss of the extra 0.5x strength to your damage, and the weapons do less damage individually (though, in this case, there's a distinct lack of two-handed weapons). So, in short, you basically spend four feats (and three more if you want another off-hand attack to have the same potential damage) to not even catch up before adding in bonuses that said two-handed fighter could be receiving. See the problem?

Hmm... You're right. I wasn't considering that. Have to think about it.

Attacking with two-weapons is only a good option if you have a source of bonus damage dice like sneak attack.  Otherwise Power Attacking with a two-handed weapon is going to do significantly more damage with a higher chance of hitting.

But there are no two-handers in mech combat yet. I'd have to use an Assault Blade until they show up. IF they show up.

Again, you can perfectly grab a one-handed weapon with two hands.

I'll also advise against weapon focus.

[Nanshork]

Alright, now I just have to decide if I want to go with a Super Robot or a Real Robot.   Super Robot fits better thematically but Real Robots get niftier options...

[oslecamo]

Speaking of which, I need another plot, since it doesn't make much sense the lv1 party going to Ragol when they've specifically requested the 12th level party to do it.

My plan for the Low-End starting fluff would be something along the lines of:
-In Parum, after the Devastation war Bioplants were created to try to build up the planet's fauna and flora.
-Recently, something has gone wrong in one of those plants and it starts crancking up lesser biomonsters in auto mode.
-Android Administration doesn't want a ruckus to be raised over this, so they isolate the place and send in some low-profile people (you) to take care of it.

How does it sound?

[Raineh Daze]

I like this.

It's much, much less terrifying.

And I think we should manage to avoid this. XD

Seriously, I hate that worm. ;-;

[Scout89]

Sounds good to me!

On a side note, I have a feat to choose. Any suggestions?

[Kuroimaken]

Works for me.

[Concerned Ninja Citizen]

Biomonsters sound lovely.

On a side note, I have a feat to choose. Any suggestions?

What's your plan for later levels?

Why do you have dodge? Is it a prereq for something? If not, it's probably not worth having.

Battle Jump may be a solid choice depending on whether you can activate it with mecha flight.

If you're planning to go for either Dungeon Crasher next level or Shock Trooper if we get that far, Improved Bull Rush is a possibility.

[Kuroimaken]

If you fly, Battle Jump doesn't work.

[Clanjos]

while under the influence of a fly or levitate spell or effect

I see nothing preventing a creature with a fly speed from taking the feat and using it while diving at a foe.

[Concerned Ninja Citizen]

Particularly considering that standard mecha flight has you fall if you don't end on a secure surface. It seems like you could set yourself up to deliberately fall on to an enemy pretty easily.

[Kuroimaken]

while under the influence of a fly or levitate spell or effect

I see nothing preventing a creature with a fly speed from taking the feat and using it while diving at a foe.

Wouldn't a flight speed count as an effect?

[Clanjos]

I don't know, is walking an effect? What about a swimming fish?