Problem Solver in a Very Limited Campaign

[Baran]

We're starting a new campaign on Sunday. The setting is from the Pathfinder Online Kickstarter, but we are playing it 3.5. Allowed books are just PHB and DMG, with MM where necessary. I expressed interest in playing an arcane trickster, because when else would that be a viable option? The DM looked at the barbarian and cleric, then at me and said, "You'll have to be the one to solve the problems."

I am human, and we are starting at level 1. The character that I had in mind originally was a wizard to start, who was out "seeking adventure" because his lord caught him forging bank notes. the abiliity scores were rolled out in advance for the whole party, and are 16,15,15,14,12,11. I picked Str11 Dex15 Con14 Int16 Wis12 Cha15.

Really looking at a first-level wizard made me realize how far in over my head I am. That is a LOT of skill points to lose over Rog1, and I'd only have 6hp!

I don't know what the full party is going to be as yet, but there will be 5-6 players at the table including me. Suggestions?

[Miranius]

Core books only is very very limiting, but if you want to be the problemsover you won`t get around spellcasting sooner or later. So either wizard (don`t know if the class variant conjurer is core, but if it is go there...) or a rogue with a high UMD and a whole library of wands, scrolls and staves.

[Scottzar]

Don't lose caster levels. Don't do eet.

Wizard >>>>>>>>> Rogue

Cleric is just as much a problemsolver as you are.

By the rolled ability scores and use of all core I see that your DM has basically no experience whatsoever, so be wary for nightmarishly over the top challenges and/or snapping his game in two the moment you cast a decent spell.

[Concerned Ninja Citizen]

How much experience do you have and what are you looking for?

Straight Wizard is going to be more powerful and better at solving problems than anything involving Rogue levels, including an Arcane Trickster build. Spells are just better at problem solving than skills. Of course, you need to know how to use the spells (divination is good. Specializing as a Diviner may well be a solid choice) but that goes for skills as well.

On the other hand, if you've played straight Wizard before and feel like a change, Arcane Trickster could be fun and won't be a problem power wise assuming your party is not highly optimized.

As far as Wizards being squishy, you could play a Gnome. Small size and +2 con will help out with survivability and there are relatively few feats in core that casters care about so losing the bonus feat is less of a big deal than in a game with more sources. Beyond that, just stay out of melee reach as much as possible. Hide behind the barbarian and the cleric for the first level or so.

What other suggestions were you looking for?

By the rolled ability scores and use of all core I see that your DM has basically no experience whatsoever

No understanding of and/or interest in optimization, yeah. No experience, not necessarily. One of the guys in my IRL group runs a core only, rolled ability scores 3.5 campaign (that I am not in) and he has been playing for 2 or 3 decades.

[linklord231]

Druid.

Not limited by spells known.
Spot/Listen as class skills.
Animal Companion is a built-in tank, and you can stack buffs on him.
You need stealth?  Turn into a squirrel or something.

Remember that because Druids have a slightly worse spell list than Wizards, you won't usually have the perfect spell for the job.  Instead, druids have to think a little bit outside the box to use the spells they have in order to get the effect they want.  Instead of Passwall, you have Stone Shape.  Instead of Teleport, you summon a tree and Tree Stride.  Also don't forget about your spontaneous Summon Nature's Ally.  You can get access to a lot of spells, spontaneously, as Spell Like Abilities from your helper buddies. 


If you're really attached to the Wizard idea, just go pure Wiz.  You can use your spells to open locks, stealth, or whatever else the rogue was supposed to be doing.  You can Detect Magic to find magic traps (note that mechanical traps can be found with a normal Search check; the "Trapfinding" class feature only lets you Search for magical traps - something you can do automatically with a cantrip).  If you're using the Pathfinder rules for cantrips, you can do this all day from level 1.  In 3.5, Detect Magic can be Permanencied at higher levels. 
Don't use your limited spells/day on doing damage to things, unless it's going to be a lot of damage.  95% of the time, you're better off either buffing the party or disabling the enemy with crowd control or debuffs.  This goes double for large parties.  With 6 people at the table, team buffs like Haste are a huge benefit. 

Really, the Rogue/Wizard hybrid is done best outside of Core.  There, you get things like Unseen Seer with real class features and only use Arcane Trickster as filler.  A Spellthief 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer 10/Arcane Trickster 5 would get 7d6 Sneak Attack and 19/20 caster level, could steal spells as a 20th level Spellthief, can cast in light armor, and has a Caster Level of at least 20 depending on how your DM reads the Master Spellthief feat.  He could also use Unseen Seer's Advanced Learning to pick up Hunter's Eye for even more sneak attack damage. 

[Empirate]

If you're dead set on an Arcane Trickster, go Gnome Illusionist 5/Rogue 1/Assassin 1/Arcane Trickster 2/Loremaster 2/Arcane Trickster 3-6/Archmage 5. That preserves the "trickster" feel while still making you a primary arcane caster with only two lost casting levels.

You have to be evil for Assassin (which is there to get more Sneak Attack without spending 3 Rogue levels), but you can always play this out as "Rather on the mean, 'pragmatic' side, and pretty selfish. Asshole? Yeah. Champion of Evil? Nope".

You actually get a lot of sneak attack, but won't use it much, I expect, except for a sneaky ray spell now and then (augmented with a Quickened True Strike, this might be an option from time to time, even though your BAB is teh suckxorz).

Most of your feats go to qualifying for PrCs, but except for Skill Focus taken twice, those are OK to good feats. Except for a bit of metamagic and item creation, there's not much in core that a caster wants to take, anyway. Maybe ask your DM to treat Skill Focus [Spellcraft], which Archmage requires, as Skill Focus [any knowledge], which Loremaster requires. Loremaster adds the Lore ability, which can be quite nice, and pays back the mediocre skill focus feat via Secret, anyway (if you have Int 24+ by level 10, wich is doable).

Build:
1 - Illusionist (B: Scribe Scroll, Spell Focus: Illusion) {banned schools: Enchantment, Evocation; Raven or Bat familiar}
2 - Illusionist
3 - Illusionist (Improved Initiative)
4 - Illusionist
5 - Illusionist (B: Craft Wondrous Item)
6 - Rogue (Skill Focus: Knowledge [Arcana]) {Sneak Attack +1d6, Trapfinding}
7 - Assassin {Sneak Attack +2d6, useless Poison use and Death Attack, 2 spells yaykthx}
8 - Arcane Trickster {Ranged Legerdemain 1/day}
9 - Arcane Trickster (Quicken Spell)  {Sneak Attack +3d6}
10 - Loremaster (B: Spell Focus: whatever, via {Secret})
11 - Loremaster {Lore}
12 - Arcane Trickster (Craft Staff) {Impromptu Sneak Attack}
13 - Arcane Trickster {Sneak Attack +4d6}
14 - Arcane Trickster  {Ranged Legerdemain 2/day}
15 - Arcane Trickster (Skill Focus: Spellcraft) {Sneak Attack +5d6}
16 - Archmage {High Arcana: Mastery of Shaping}
17 - Archmage {High Arcana: Arcane Reach}
18 - Archmage (open feat) {High Arcana: Mastery of Elements}
19 - Archmage {High Arcana: Spell-Like Ability [Time Stop]}
20 - Archmage {High Arcana: Spell Power}

[kitep]

Really looking at a first-level wizard made me realize how far in over my head I am. That is a LOT of skill points to lose over Rog1, and I'd only have 6hp!

So why not go with Rog1 first, and then wizard?  You may have to refluff your background a little, but it does give you a lot more skill points.

[Baran]

Thanks for all of the ideas, folks.

By the rolled ability scores and use of all core I see that your DM has basically no experience whatsoever, so be wary for nightmarishly over the top challenges and/or snapping his game in two the moment you cast a decent spell.

 We're actually doing this "no-frills" adventure with one of the players in our current game GMing because we spend 3-4 hours out of a nine-hour session bickering about something or other, and we're hoping that fewer rules will mean less to argue about.  My contention is that 90% of the bickering we do is over things in the PHB ("WTF is an overrun?" kind of stuff) and that a third of the classes in the PHB are terrible, but nobody believes me. Doing something where each player's turn is less than fifteen minutes long will be refreshing anyway. The current campaign is also so  heavily houseruled that the new GM contends (jokingly) that none of us actually knows how to play D&D to begin with. Current GM loves him some crit/fumble cards

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Really looking at a first-level wizard made me realize how far in over my head I am. That is a LOT of skill points to lose over Rog1, and I'd only have 6hp!

So why not go with Rog1 first, and then wizard?  You may have to refluff your background a little, but it does give you a lot more skill points.

(ninja'd)

Yeah, Rogue 1 / Wizard X ... is a standard build.
Human + the Able Learner feat at level 1 = all else you need.
Trapfinder is or should be, a definite party necessity at level 1.
But later not so much.