Min/Max Boards

I recommend the Improved Toughness (feat - CW): +1 HP/level instead of a flat +3 HP.

HD:d12

Level	Bab	Fort	Ref	Will	Special	Blood Points
1	+0	+0	+0	+0	Living Blood, Flowing Form, Natural Attacks, +1 Str, +2 Con	-
2	+1	+0	+0	+0	Blood Dependancy, Blood Siphon, +1 Str	3
3	+2	+1	+1	+1	Flowing Form, Body Augmentation, +1 Str	4
4	+3	+1	+1	+1	Evacuation, +1 Str	5
5	+3	+1	+1	+1	Growth, Possess, +1 Str	8
6	+4	+2	+2	+2	Greater Magical Arms, +1 Str	9
7	+5	+2	+2	+2	Body Augmentation, Magic Resistance, +1 Str	10
8	+6	+2	+2	+2	Bonus attack, Flowing Form, Whirlwind of Death	10

Skills:6+Int modifier per level, quadruple at 1st level: Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Disable Device (Dex), Escape Artist (Dex), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Dungeoneering), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Int), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha).

Proficiency: Natural Weapons, Light, Medium and Heavy Armor, no Shields, and 1 Martial Weapon. This Weapon must be inherently capable of performing Trip Attacks, such as a Heavy Mace.

Living Blood: The Blood Golem has the Living Construct type, which gives it the following traits:

Flowing Form (Ex): At 1st level, you gain a +15 on all Escape Artist checks and may even compress its form up to a foot (tiny) diameter, and thus flows through spaces without undue difficulty. At levels 3, 8, and every 5 HD after, choose one of the following abilities to gain:

• The Blood Golem gains a 40' Swim speed, gains a +10 to all Swim checks, and can take 10 on any Swim check, even when threatened.
• The Blood Golem gains a 20' Climb Speed, gains a +10 to all climb checks, and can take 10 on a Climb check even when threatened.
• The Blood Golem gains a +10' bonus to all base movement speeds.

At 10 HD, your bonus to Escape Artist Checks increases to +30; and by +60 at level 20. Furthermore, at 20 HD, you become immune to Difficult Terrain, Paralysis, and operate under a continuous, extraordinary Freedom of Movement effect.

Natural Attacks: At 1st level the Blood Golem gains a single Natural Attack, which it can make as a Claw (slashing) or a Slam (bludgeoning), that deals 1d8 damage. At level 5, this increases to 2d8, and increases by +1d8 (med) every additional 5 HD it gains (3d8 med at 10, 4d8 at 15, etc).
 At 8th level, the Blood Golem gains an additional primary Natural Attack, for a total of 2 Primary Claws and/or Slams.

Ability Score Increases: At levels 1 to 7 of the Blood Golem class, it gains a +1 to Str; it also gains a +2 Con at 1st level, for a +7 Str, +2 Con at level 8.

Blood Dependency: Starting at level 2, the Blood Golem has acquired enough mass that it also loses some of its vital fluids. At the beginning of each day, the Blood Golem loses 1 HP per HD it has (minimum 2).

Blood Siphon (Ex): Starting at level 2, the Blood Golem may drain blood out of a helpless creature or a body that has died within the past hour, dealing Constitution damage at the rate of 1 point per full round for every 2 HD it has (minimum 1). It then gains 2 Blood Points for each point of Con damage it dealt, to a maximum in its Blood Pool (See chart, above).

Blood Points: Starting at level 2, the Blood Golem can store the blood it absorbs from its victims. It may expend its Blood Points in the following ways:

• 1 point: As an Free Action 1/round, it may modify the result of a die roll from an enemy within 60' by -1d4 (It must be able to perceive this enemy).
• 2 points: As an Immediate Action, the Blood Golem may increase the result of an Intelligence, Wisdom, Charisma check or related skill by +2d4.
• 2 Points: As an Immediate Action, the Blood Golem increases a Saving Throw result by 1d4+1. You may do this before or after you see your roll, but before you know the result.
• 2 Points: As a Move Action, you may heal yourself for 1d12 + Con HP; this increase by +1d12 every Blood Point spent. This may be done as part of a Blood Siphon at 6HD or more, but you do not add Blood Points that you spend.
• 3 Points, level 5+:As an Immediate Action, you may roll 2x on a Saving Throw against being Paralyzed, Petrified, Poisoned, or afflicted with Disease; you take the better of these 2 rolls.
• 6 points:1/encounter, you may both double your base speed for 2 rounds and also avoid provoking Attacks of Opportunity for this time.

Body Augmentation (Ex): At 3rd level, the Blood Golem gives a magical +1 bonus to any Armor, Weapon, or Natural Weapon it bears against its foes. In addition, you gain your choice of the following bonus options, chosen once at 3rd and again at 7th level:

• Additional Arm: You gain 1 secondary Natural Attack that attacks at a -2 to hit (instead of a -5), and may be a Claw, Slam or Spike, with the same damage as its base Natural Attack. This ability may only be chosen once.
• Blood Rage: You gain Rage, as a Barbarian, usable 2/day. However, you are not fatigued at its end. This may be chosen a second time, and adds +3/day uses.
• Damage Reduction: You gain DR 2/- This ability may only be chosen twice.
• Elemental Absorption: 1/encounter, when you would take damage from a source of Acid, Cold, Electric, Fire, or Negative-Energy, you instead heal that much HP. Overhealing from this ability applies as Temporary Hitpoints.
• Great Resistance: This selection may only be chosen at 7th level or higher. 1/encounter, you may choose to succeed on your save against any 1 spell; this selection may be made after a roll, but before the result is known.
• Steadfast Form: You become immune to any effect that would Blind, Polymorph or Alter your form against your will.

Evacuation (Ex): Beginning at 4th level, the Blood Golem may take a full-round Action to grant itself a fly speed 2x its base land speed with (perfect) maneuverability, and if it ends its movement next to an opponent it may take an Attack action. However, if hasn't landed at the end of its turn it falls, taking falling damage as appropriate.

Growth (Ex): At 5th level, you grow 1 Size Category. This affects any weapon and Armor (natural or otherwise) you wield.

Possession (Su): Beginning at 5th level, while Evacuated (see Above), you may attempt to possess a plant or a creature with a Con score that you can see and is within your Fly speed.
First, you must move adjacent to the creature, then take an Attack action--as a Touch Attack--at your Highest Base Attack Bonus; if you hit, you may attempt possession.
The target creature's CR must be at least 2 less than your current level else the possession fails. They must succeed on a Will saving Throw DC 8 + your Con modifier + 1/2 the damage dealt or be possessed for 1 minute per Blood Golem level. You maintain your Int, Wis and Cha scores, and replace your physical stats with the possessed creature's. You retain your skills and abilities, and may use them in this possessed form. This possession ends if the body is reduced to 0 HP or less, if you end the effect as a Move Action, or if the time runs out.

Greater Magical Arms: At 6th level, and for every 3 HD afterwards, the Blood Golem bestows an additional +1 bonus to the Weapons, Armor, and Natural Weapons it uses; this does not stack with enhancements from other sources, and only the largest bonus applies. At the beginning of each day, as an hour-long ritual, it may exchange all its equipped items' Enhancement bonuses and Enchantments (i.e it could make a +3 mace a +1 Flaming Burst Mace), as it desires. However, this may only be done 1/day, and may not use Epic-level Enchantments (6+) until 21 or more HD.

Magic Resistance (Ex): Beginning at 7th level, any time you make a Saving Throw against any Spell, Power, PLA or SLA, you may roll twice and take the better result. This resistance does not apply to spells with the [Sonic] descriptor or spells that effect [Water] creatures, such as Horrid Wilting.

Whirlwind of Death (Ex): At 8th level, the Blood Golem may take a Standard Action to initiate this action. It then makes a melee attack against every opponent within reach. Resolve each attack separately, at your highest Base Attack bonus, with a +2 to hit for each attack.
At 15 HD, the Blood Golem makes two melee attacks against every opponent within reach. Resolve each attack separately, at your highest Base Attack bonus, with a +5 to hit for each attack.

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Blood Golem feats:

Extra Bonus Adaptation | Requirements: Blood Golem 3 or higher
You gain another Bonus Adaptation of the Blood Golem. However, you must abide by written restrictions.
Special: You may select this feat more than once, each time applied to a different Adaptation.

Greater Possession | Requirements: Blood Golem 5 or higher.
You use the better of all Ability Scores when Possessing a creature (yours or the possessed creature). Furthermore, as a Free Action, you may expend X Blood Points (min 1) and reduce the duration of your Possession by 1 minute to gain the use of a single Ex, Supernatural, or Spell-like ability of the creature for X minutes.

Increased Blood Capacity | Requirements: Blood Golem
You gain a +3 bonus to your Blood Point maximum. Furthermore, you gain +1 to your Blood Point maximum at each HD gained starting at 9 HD (thus +1 at 9 HD, 10, 11, 12 etc).

Mutable Armaments | Requirements: Blood Golem 6 or higher
You may swap the Enchantments of your Weapons and Armor with 10 minutes' meditation, instead of 1/day.

Potent Siphon | Requirements: HD 12+, Blood Siphon
Whenever you use your Blood Siphon ability, you deal 1 Constitution Damage per HD instead of 1 damage per 2 HD.

Changed the DR to 2/cold Iron or Good with a slower progression, which is still good, but isn't ridiculously OP.

If they were delicacies, they would be eaten first.

Second, you're removing a major motivation for demons attacking. Monsters often attack if they're hungry, but if demons already have delicious dretches in the abyss, then that's a lot less reason to bother invading the material plane.

Well argued. Changed Delicious into "Foul Nutrition" and added a few changes.

So may I ask you show a published instance of a chaotic demon able to block dretch evolution? Are you saying demons have a solid, stable, lawful hierarchy where superiors have perfect, cold control over those below?

Can't find anything. I never said that demons have anything close to a solid, stable or lawful hierarchy. In case of point, this also falls into the reasoning of why I'm not going to help the Dretch evolve. An ambitious lesser demon must work hard for and have great ambition to evolve, damn it! (Please excuse the pun)

At first glance:
-" should not be suitable for players" is the exact opposite of this project's goals. The #1 objective here has always been "make this monster useable by players".

Okay, okay, I moved it to an optional "curse" trait that can be applied by superior demons, without mechanics for implementation (DM fiat only).

-You're deriving stat adjustements wrong. You subtract the basic array of 10s (if even) and 11s (if odd), so a Dretch's adjustement should be +2 Str, +4 Con, -6 Int.  Mind you it's fine to change said adjustements for balance reasons

Oh goodness, standard array is too elite for the Dretch!! It makes sense now~ Considering the significant damage even a -3 Int does, I'm not going to transfer to the more significant penalties and bonuses, as I think that's poorer design.

but make the "minion" monster have a Cha bonus? That just feels wrong.

Edit: Having run over the stat modifiers of the Dretch again, I can see what you're saying here, and I put its improvements into Str/Con. Charisma still makes the most sense to me for "inherent magical talent," like a sorceror or a Wilder.

 It's neat how you progressed the Lemure with "promotion," but to me this is more reasonable in the (relatively) ordered society of the Nine Hells. I think it's more sensible with the Dretch to leave it be, letting it grasp at straws as one must in a chaotic environment.

Dretch




HD: d8

Level	BAB	Fort Save	Ref Save	Will Save	Special	Ability Score Adjustments
1st	+0	+2	+0	+0	Lesser Body, Foul Nutrition, Telepathy, SLAs	-2 Int, +1 Str, +1 Con
2nd	+1	+3	+0	+0	Play Dead, Resistance, Summon Dretch (Optional: Transformation)	+1 Str, +1 Con

Skills: Hide (Dex), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Spot (Wis), Search (Int), Survival (Wis)
Skill Points equal to 4+Int skills (*4 at 1st level) | A negative Int score does not penalize the Dretch's skillpoints.


Class abilities:

Ability Adjustments: The Dretch starts with a -2 Int.  It gains +1 Str and +1 Con at levels 1 and 2 for a total of +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Int at 2nd level.

Proficiency: The Dretch is proficient with Claw (primary) and Bite natural weapons, no other weapons, no armor and no shields.

Languages: All Dretch can understand Abyssal, but they cannot speak verbally; attempts to do so result in gibberish.
 Bonus Languages (with Int 11+): Common, Infernal, Ignan, Terran, Xorn.

Natural Weapons: The Dretch has 2 primary Claw attacks that deal 1d6+Str damage and 1 secondary Bite attack that deals 1d4+1/2 Str damage.

Foul Nutrition (Ex): Dretch are filthy, slavering creatures and far from appetizing, but can be eaten for sustenance by other Demons.  Thus consumed, it allows the baatezu a number of options:
First, the Baatezu may choose to restore 1d8+X+Y HP, where X is equal to the Dretch's HD and Y is equal to the Dretch's total remaining SLA casts (0-level SLAs count as 1/2 spell).
Alternatively, the demon may gain Resist Energy as a 4th-level spell (70-minute duration) or Lesser Restoration.

A non-Demon that eats a Dretch finds it mostly disgusting. If forced to eat one, the creature must make a Con save (DC equal to the Dretch's Stinking Cloud SLA) or become nauseated for 1d4+1 rounds. Non-Demon creatures without a Con score (Such as undead) can eat Dretch as food without becoming nauseated (but gain no extra benefit).

Telepathy (Ex): The Dretch has Telepathy, restricted to the languages it knows (Abyssal by default), which allows it to communicate effectively with others. This extends to 100 feet, +10 feet per HD.

Spell-like Abilities: the Dretch gains a number of SLAs. DC are calculated as 10 + 1/2 HD + Cha.
At 1st level the Dretch gains Scare, as a 1st-level SLA, usable 2/day.
At 2nd level the Dretch gains Stinking Cloud, as a 2nd-level SLA, usable 1/day.

It also gains a limited set of additional SLAs from the list below. It may cast three Cantrips/day and one 1st-level SLA per day. Every 3 HD it gains, the Dretch can gains 1 additional casting for both 0-level & 1st-level SLAs.


Play Dead (Ex):Upon taking damage that would reduce it to 0 HP (or less) but not kill it outright, the Dretch may immediately throw itself to the ground as if slain. It becomes Prone and as long as it doesn't take any Swift, Move or Standard actions, it has Fast Healing 1 until its HP total becomes 1. A creature may take a DC 12 Heal or Sense Motive check to determine that it's not dead; Demons get a +10 to this roll. This cannot be used to endure the process of being eaten (See Foul Nutrition).

Resistance: At 2nd level, the Dretch has reached its maturity. It takes half damage from any source of Electricity or poison damage, and poisons take twice as long to apply secondary effects.
At 7 HD or more, the Dretch becomes immune to both Electricity and Poison.

Summon Dretch (Su): At 2nd level, 1/encounter, the Dretch may summon another Dretch with HD equal to its own -1; the summoned Dretch loses this ability for the duration of its summoning.
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Transformation: The Abyss is a vast and infinite place of despair; most Dretch live their pitiful lives in terrible or unwinnable situations. But with so much space, a rare few manage to find a means to transcend their form into a newer, better demon. This transformation takes anywhere from a couple days to several months, depending on the power it gains. Regardless, the Dretch retains whatever HD, BaB, Saves & skills it's gained as well as its Telepathy, SLAs, and Resistance.

The Dretch loses its Lesser Body (including DR and Natural Armor), its Natural Weapons, Foul Nutrition, Play Dead, Summon and Transformation qualities, all of which are replaced by the new Demon and its traits as it takes the first level from the class below:

Demonhive (infestation)
Jovoc
Arrow Demon
Succubus
Bebilith
Marilith
Sorrowsworn
Death Drinker
Balor

Inconsistencies with "Corruptor Initiate"
"as levels of that class for purposes of CL and for the purposes of learning new spells and geting new spell slots."
...then
"She wouldn't get the spell knowns and spell slots of a sorceror 3 however."

Which is it?

Snake form is full of so many changes. Why does it lose AC and burrow? As if the Dragon's Touch AC weren't bad enough!  If anything, it should retain its ground movement and burrow speeds, since it still retains its SLAs anyways; it's not like burrow speeds are broken.

I recommend some wording changes:

Size remains unchanged, but the Deep Dragon can count itself as one size smaller than it actually is when advantageus such as hiding and squeezing through tight spaces. It retains its Bite and Tail Slap natural attacks, and gains Improved Grab with these attacks and thus can start a grapple as a free action whitout provoking attacks of opportunity nor needing a new attack roll every time it hits (with Tail Slap or Bite). Once grappling, it may Constrict for 2d6 base damage for medium, 2d8 for large, 3d6 for huge, 3d8 for gargantuan, 6d6 for colossal. (rest is fine)

Modified the Guardian's stance to forbid abuses of intended power and added Imp. Grab.

Personally, I'd have hoped that allowing the Expansion power would shore up its "it doesn't become huge" but I get that this has become a matter of principle. Fixed everything else.

I dont see any reason this can justifiably be a 5 HD PrC. As a 10-HD monster this would be overpowered as hell. Its virtually unkillable and with Kodokou Curse it can level a city in a weeks' time. It is Purple Man revenge status here, but at such a low level its nuts. So what gives?

It has all good saves, BaB, 6+Int skills and Stat boosts. It has incredible power through its abilities. Its d8 HD is practically a joke, as once it can resurrect itself (at no cost mind you) its gonna take a long-ranged assault (wizard/caster) or a Wish/Miracle to end.

I strongly recommend:
10HD minimum requirement.

No stat boosts - doesn't need.

IF YOU MUST, make its DCs 10+ 1/2 HD + CHA. This will account for a modest increase in power later on, but will make its later entry more palatable.