Chargen Houserules.

[Amechra]

I like rolling for stuff - so this will involve random rolls (trigger warning, I guess?). Notes are in Navy

Alright, so here we go:

#0 Ability scores are 4d6b3 7 times, drop the lowest score, swap any two. If this doesn't work for what you're playing, you can choose to use the lowest 6 rolls of another player, in any order.

#1 First level is gestalt; rather than use the higher of the two HD, you get HP equal to the higher of the maximum of the smaller die or a roll of the larger die, plus any modifiers. e.g. a Rogue/Fighter would get the higher of 6+Con and 1d10+Con.

#2 Use the skill list for Magipunk, with the addition of Theology (combines Knowledge (Religion) and Spellcraft).

#2a Concentration, Perception, and Profession are class skills for everyone.

#2b Instead of getting skill points at first level, pick 1 + [Skill Points per Level]/2 skills from each of your classes. You get 4 ranks in those skills. e.g. a Rogue/Fighter gets 2 skills off the Fighter list, and 5 off the Rogue list.
Yeah, you get much fewer skills; on the other hand, the skill list has been practically cut in half.

(click to show/hide)

Barbarian: Animal Affinity (Cha), Athletics (Str), Natural Lore (Wis), and Persuasion (Cha)
Bard: Acrobatics (Dex), Arcana (Int), Athletics (Str), Negotiation (Cha), Perform (Cha), Persuasion (Cha), Scholarship (Int), Stealth (Dex), Streetwise (Cha/Int), Thievery (Dex), and Wordsmithing (Int)
Cleric: Heal (Wis), Negotiation (Cha), Scholarship (Int), and Theology (Int)
Druid: Animal Affinity (Cha), Athletics (Str), Heal (Wis), Natural Lore (Wis), and Negotiation (Cha)
Fighter: Animal Affinity (Cha), Athletics (Str), Engineering (Int), and Persuasion (Cha)
Monk: Acrobatics (Dex), Athletics (Str), Negotiation (Cha), Perform (Cha), Scholarship (Int), Stealth (Dex), and Theology (Int)
Paladin: Animal Affinity (Cha), Heal (Wis), Negotiation (Cha), Scholarship (Int), and Theology (Int)
Ranger: Animal Affinity (Cha), Athletics (Str), Heal (Wis), Nature Lore (Wis), and Stealth (Dex)
Rogue: Acrobatics (Dex), Athletics (Str), Engineering (Int), Negotiation (Cha), Perform (Cha), Persuasion (Cha), Stealth (Dex), Streetwise (Int), Thievery (Dex), and Wordsmithing (Int)
Sorcerer: Arcana (Int), and Persuasion (Cha)
Wizard: Arcana (Int), Scholarship (Int), and Wordsmithing (Int)

#3: Use the Weapon Groups variant; anyone who gets "any other" drops that number by one, Monks get Basic Weapons and Monk Weapons, and you may trade one "any other" slot for the Martial Study feat (one of the Discipline's favored weapons must fall under one of the Weapon Groups you are proficient in). e.g. a Rogue/Fighter would be proficient in Basic Weapons, as well as four other Weapon Groups (one from Rogue, three from Fighter); they may trade one of those Weapon Groups for Martial Study.

#4: All LA is reduced by one (to a minimum of +1 LA). For the purposes of the above rules, LA is equivalent to a level in Commoner; their skill picks are taken from the class they actually took levels in.
e.g. a Drow Rogue would have have [Higher of 4 or 1d6] + Con HP, would pick 7 skills from the Rogue list, and would be proficient with Basic Weapons and one other weapon group.
Because LA is a shitty, poorly-thought-out rule.


I might add in some other things later - like working out what I'm going to do with Languages.

[Nanshork]

What is 4d6b3?

[RedWarlock]

4d6, best 3

Edit:

By the way, this?

..this will involve random rolls (trigger warning, I guess?)

This is hilarious.

[Nanshork]

Huh, I've never seen it shortened like that.

[Bronzebeard]

Question:
If you had to translate BAB into skill check - how would you do it?

Also, what is the skill list?

[Amechra]

Question:
If you had to translate BAB into skill check - how would you do it?

Also, what is the skill list?

The skill list is here (I could have sworn that I had linked to it.) With the addition of Theology, there's exactly 20 skills.

If I had to do BAB into a skill check, I'd...

0. Fix skill scaling; seriously, skills scale like a drunken monkey drives - too erratically and too quickly.
1. Turn AC into a skill as well; roll it when you roll initiative, and at the beginning of your turn.
2. Bull Rushes and the like are special uses of the BAB skill.
3. Beating your opponent's AC increases your damage by 1d6 for every 5-point increment; this would probably replace iterative attacks.
4. BAB is a class skill for anyone who doesn't have Poor BAB; classes with Good BAB have some sorta extra bonus.


I'm debating the following:

#5 The Good saving throw progression is now +[2 * Level]/3 instead of +2+[Level]/2. If a saving throw is Good for at least one of your two base classes, increase your base save modifier by +1.
e.g. A Rogue/Ranger has a Good Fort bonus on one side, a Good Ref progression on both sides, and a Poor Will bonus. Their starting base saves are Fort +2 [2], Ref +2 [2+1/3], Will +0 [2/3]; if they gained a level of Monk, they'd have Fort +2 [2+2/3], Ref +3 [3], and Will +1 [1+1/3].

It gives you a smoother progression and has the same (initial) results as the standard fractional saves. On the other hand, a Good progression will give you a +14~+15 as your base for a save at 20th level.

Then again, it's possible to build characters with a +40 Base Will Save using the default rules (it's a terrible idea, but you can).

[Bronzebeard]

If I had to do BAB into a skill check, I'd...

0. Fix skill scaling; seriously, skills scale like a drunken monkey drives - too erratically and too quickly.

Yeah... can you go into more detail? Like place numbers?

[Amechra]

If I had to do BAB into a skill check, I'd...

0. Fix skill scaling; seriously, skills scale like a drunken monkey drives - too erratically and too quickly.

Yeah... can you go into more detail? Like place numbers?

Not right now - suffice to say that it'd involve stripping out half the bonuses to skill checks in the system (or fold them in with Taking 10/20).

After all, total attack bonuses range from +0 to +40, about, over the course of 20 levels.

Skill bonuses range from about +0 to +70 or more.

[Bronzebeard]

I know it' s not the subject of the thread. And I know it's a complex item.

But I'd like to take the opportunity to delve into it - as you eloquently said it yourselves: "skills scale like a drunken monkey drives".
As the system is based around rolling on a scale of 20. I think that's the goal we should strive to. Accommodating to a group of players whereby the weakest person has a +5 points bonus tops, and the biggest caliber got a +53 bonus makes skill checks unusable.

I read a few attempts where a solution was tried by things like capping skill ranks/bonuses by level or escalating ranks cost to former ranks (buying 4th rank cost 1+2+3+4 = 10).

[Amechra]

Check the thread I just made for skills, Bronzebeard.


Anyway.

My plan for my houserules for skills are as follows:

0. Toss the +2/+2 skill feats, Skill Focus, and Open Minded.
1. You get to pick skills off the list as given above - you are Trained in those skills, and get a +5 bonus.
2. At 5th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, you can do two of the following: Train an additional skill, or Focus a pre-existing skill (for another +5 bonus).
2a. After 1st level, you can Train or Focus a skill in place of a feat.
3. Humans are Trained in Concentration, Perception, or Profession by default, instead of their +1 skill point.
4. Replace the skill prereqs for stuff with a minimum level and a Trained/Focused requirement. For example, the Assassin's skill Prereqs would be 5th level, Trained in Persuasion, and Focused in Stealth.

So someone who, say, started out as Human Rogue/Ranger would have 11 skills Trained (55% of the whole list), and could have 19 Trained at 20th level without spending any feats on grabbing more skills or spending picks on Focusing those skills.

If there was a more "generalized" system for skill tricks, I'd let people grab one in place of Training or Focusing a skill. I'll think on it.

[Unbeliever]

#1 First level is gestalt; rather than use the higher of the two HD, you get HP equal to the higher of the maximum of the smaller die or a roll of the larger die, plus any modifiers. e.g. a Rogue/Fighter would get the higher of 6+Con and 1d10+Con.

Why on earth would you do this? 

I might add in some other things later - like working out what I'm going to do with Languages.

I feel like languages are such an unimportant part of the game that I wouldn't devote much time to mucking around with them. 

[Amechra]

#1 First level is gestalt; rather than use the higher of the two HD, you get HP equal to the higher of the maximum of the smaller die or a roll of the larger die, plus any modifiers. e.g. a Rogue/Fighter would get the higher of 6+Con and 1d10+Con.

Why on earth would you do this?

Mostly because I want to and I like rolling for HP?

[Unbeliever]

"I want to" is not a helpful answer, to be honest.  You posted it up here so I presumed you wanted feedback. 

You've got all characters that are 1st level gestalt but then not gestalt for the rest, which is pretty confusing for me and I'll contend that I'm a daft hand at character creation.  If you like rolling for hp that's one thing.  It's the 1 level gestalt thing that's wacky. 

It'd be easier just to give people a small ability from a list drawn from the classes, a d10 hit points, and +1 BAB and call it at that.  Although I'm still not sure what purpose/desired goal that'd aim for. 

[Amechra]

Oh, I thought it was the HP thing (that's a "because I can" thing).

The 1st level Gestalt is to prevent LA from being a massive kick in the pants without deleting it entirely.

[Unbeliever]

The 1st level Gestalt is to prevent LA from being a massive kick in the pants without deleting it entirely.

Got it.  That seems like a cumbersome way to go about it to me, but to each their own.