Author Topic: Fun Finds v4.0  (Read 353572 times)

Offline Skevvix

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Re: Fun Finds v4.0
« Reply #740 on: August 14, 2013, 02:42:59 AM »
The only reason I can see that being useful is to trade your limited action in the surprise round (standard action to total defense) for a full round of actions (hopefully) before everyone else at the start of round 1.

Is there some other advantage to it that I'm not seeing?

Just rolling a 1 would be enough most times for me to use it.  Granted it is far more useful in a suprise round, but that is actually before init isn't it?  That's how my group has always played it at least.

Offline Garryl

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Re: Fun Finds v4.0
« Reply #741 on: August 14, 2013, 03:05:43 AM »
The only reason I can see that being useful is to trade your limited action in the surprise round (standard action to total defense) for a full round of actions (hopefully) before everyone else at the start of round 1.

Is there some other advantage to it that I'm not seeing?

It essentially means that whenever you roll poorly on initiative and go last, you can gain a free move action (other than to move), a free swift action, and a +4 or +6 bonus to AC for 1 round. Ditto if you ever find yourself delaying or readying an action that puts you at the end of the initiative order. Don't think of it as giving up a standard action. Think of it as gaining a full extra turn minus a standard action.

Offline ksbsnowowl

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Re: Fun Finds v4.0
« Reply #742 on: August 14, 2013, 03:12:21 AM »
Fair enough.

Offline Rebel7284

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Re: Fun Finds v4.0
« Reply #743 on: August 14, 2013, 07:42:42 AM »
The only reason I can see that being useful is to trade your limited action in the surprise round (standard action to total defense) for a full round of actions (hopefully) before everyone else at the start of round 1.

Is there some other advantage to it that I'm not seeing?

Swift and move action abilities?  I had a Telflamar Shadowlord that could abuse this heavily with linked power.

Offline Captnq

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Re: Fun Finds v4.0
« Reply #744 on: August 14, 2013, 08:15:12 AM »
Screaming Flask Fun

So, it's a one use item, therefore it's ammunition. So to make 50 masterwork screaming flasks is 2,300 gp. Now we add +1 EB, which is useless, but requires by the rules. Then we add flying (+1 bonus), so they are now move 30' animated objects that follow your commands like a skeleton would. Just to be able to carry this around we add hideaway (2,000 gp) which makes the ammunition 2 size classes smaller then me.

Total cost: 12,300 gp

Now you have 50 flying Screaming flasks you can deploy to full size as a swift action. Or keep them shrunk, because nothing about hideaway states that it prevents the weapon from operating in it's shrunken state. Energy damage is not size dependant.

The 15' cone of 1d8 sonic damage (No save on the damage, but fort DC 15 save to negate being deaf.) is going to ruin someone's day, unless you have 8 points of sonic energy resistance. Because without resistance, you could be sucking 50d8 sonic.

Personally, I'd state that the flasks, being animated objects, cannot occupy more then 1 to a square. They need the flying room or they'll crash into one another. Unfortunately with the hideaway, you could justify having all fifty in the same square, but I'd disallow that on principle. It's more a game balance thing then a rules thing.

If a flask catches another flask in the cone, I would rule it destroys the other flask, so you have to be careful about over lapping field's of fire. That would stop it from getting out of hand, but you could still drop them behind you as you flee an enemy. Paint little smiles on the flasks and the words, "Have a nice day."

There are other things you can use. floating flasks of aboleth mucus comes to mind, but they have to make to hit rolls, and animated objects are not well known for high BABs, you know? You'd be better sticking with area effect and splash damage flasks.

I'm seeing these things used in mass combat, like something out of the Great War of Eberron's setting. A solder opens up a crate of Buzz Flasks and orders them to spread out and attack the enemy. They advance in a line, popping off when someone approaches within 15 feet.
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Offline snakeman830

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Re: Fun Finds v4.0
« Reply #745 on: August 14, 2013, 08:54:13 AM »
Alchemical items don't work like that.  Screaming Flask is an alchemical item.  You cannot enchant alchemical items with properties.
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Offline Captnq

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Re: Fun Finds v4.0
« Reply #746 on: August 14, 2013, 11:51:34 AM »
Alchemical items don't work like that.  Screaming Flask is an alchemical item.  You cannot enchant alchemical items with properties.

I thought this was a RAW discussion.

I can load any flask into a Gnome Calculus. It therefore is ammunition. If it is ammunition, I can enchant it like ammunition. Ergo, I can make +1 Flying Screaming Flasks.
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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Fun Finds v4.0
« Reply #747 on: August 14, 2013, 01:48:15 PM »
RAW is an excuse, not a valid point.

For instance, by your logic I can say Setting Sun lets me throw people, therefor creatures are ammunition and can be Enhanced as such.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 01:52:23 PM by SorO_Lost »

Offline linklord231

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Re: Fun Finds v4.0
« Reply #748 on: August 14, 2013, 02:26:12 PM »
The description of the Gnome Calculus specifically calls out that alchemical flasks are ammunition.  Setting Sun throws do not.  Also, good luck finding a masterwork creature to Enhance.  Yes, I know that has been brought up in various threads before.
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Offline snakeman830

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Re: Fun Finds v4.0
« Reply #749 on: August 14, 2013, 02:48:09 PM »
The description of the Gnome Calculus specifically calls out that alchemical flasks are ammunition.  Setting Sun throws do not.  Also, good luck finding a masterwork creature to Enhance.  Yes, I know that has been brought up in various threads before.
Alchemical Flasks, yes.  Oddly, despite the name, I don't think a Screaming Flask actually counts (take a look at the picture in Complete Mage).

Even so, we have the issue of no printed masterwork alchemical items, so the same issue presents itself with them as Monks for enhancing them.
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Offline linklord231

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Re: Fun Finds v4.0
« Reply #750 on: August 14, 2013, 03:01:06 PM »
Gnome Calculus says "Common ammunition includes acid, alchemist's fire, and other alchemical substances."  Screaming Flasks are still alchemical substances, even if they don't come in what is traditionally thought of as a 'flask'. 

Whether or not we have printed examples of masterwork alchemical items is immaterial.  If they're ammunition, then we can make masterwork versions of them.  The issue with masterwork Monks is that we don't know how to craft a non-masterwork one. 
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Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Fun Finds v4.0
« Reply #751 on: August 14, 2013, 05:00:38 PM »
after reading the description, i have to agree that alchemical items are indeed ammo.
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Fun Finds v4.0
« Reply #752 on: August 14, 2013, 06:21:35 PM »
hmm ... I was concentrating on the Take 20 part.

If you have the best Init check, you already don't need it.
If you have the worst Init check, you probably don't need it.
If you were surprised + middling Init check,
you don't wanna give up so many actions.

(I'm quite hazy on surprise/1st round monster's RLT stuff)
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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Fun Finds v4.0
« Reply #753 on: August 14, 2013, 06:59:58 PM »
The description of the Gnome Calculus is a specific weapon at a specific rules level and it uses alchemical items as ammunition. But there are no rules, anywhere, that suggest or entrail establish alchemical items are ammunition at a general level or that they are technically even considered a weapon. After all, while they have range increments and can be thrown you never suffer none-proficiency penalties and they have their own Masterwork-like rules.

So the best point I've got is a +1 Flaming Gnome Calculus can toss a +1 Flaming Tanglefoot Bag, and it's the only way to combine Weapon Enhancements on Alchemical Flasks without venturing down TO-level Improvised Weapon rules. And I have no room to ever argue otherwise, through I may shove my head in a small orifice later and debate this anyway.
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Offline Maat Mons

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Re: Fun Finds v4.0
« Reply #754 on: August 14, 2013, 07:36:28 PM »
The flesh of the icy tomb feat (Dungeon 109, p50) converts all cold damage to nonlethal damage.  It has two prerequisite feats, tomb-tainted soul and endurance.  A fire bat (Monster manual II, p102) has regeneration overcome only by cold damage and six hit dice.  So, customize the feats on one, and you've got a CR 3 creature that can only take nonlethal damage. 

The usual method of patching regeneration, gaining immunity to whatever bypasses it does leave a slight vulnerability in the form of searing spell, piercing cold, or whatever else can bypass immunity.  Flesh of the icy tomb isn't affected by things like that.  Elementals are immune to poison, so trollbane doesn't work against them either. 

The existence of an elemental with regeneration is pretty handy to druids, since elemental wild shape gives extraordinary abilities.  The druid could even take the flesh of the icy tomb feat, if he didn't think the energy immunity spell was good enough.  Edit: Nevermind
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 08:49:30 PM by Maat Mons »

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Fun Finds v4.0
« Reply #755 on: August 14, 2013, 07:50:04 PM »
I can load any flask into a Gnome Calculus. It therefore is ammunition. If it is ammunition, I can enchant it like ammunition. Ergo, I can make +1 Flying Screaming Flasks.

why not a Raptor's alchemist fire (the relic) that automatically comes back loaded without being expended
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Offline jojolagger

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Re: Fun Finds v4.0
« Reply #756 on: August 14, 2013, 09:08:12 PM »
Just a quick point on the gnome calculus. It fires "flasks filled with liquid". It says it right there. What are potions?

Finally, a use for potions of inflict x.
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Offline brujon

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Re: Fun Finds v4.0
« Reply #757 on: August 14, 2013, 09:32:15 PM »
Just a quick point on the gnome calculus. It fires "flasks filled with liquid". It says it right there. What are potions?

Finally, a use for potions of inflict x.

I think Potions are stored in Bottles, not flasks. Unless it specifically says it's a flask, it can't be used as ammunition with a Calculus, at least as far as i know.
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Offline Kethrian

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Re: Fun Finds v4.0
« Reply #758 on: August 14, 2013, 09:52:08 PM »
Potions come in vials, which only hold 1 ounce of fluid, while alchemical flasks are much larger, and hold 1 pint.
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Fun Finds v4.0
« Reply #759 on: August 15, 2013, 05:33:34 PM »
The flesh of the icy tomb feat (Dungeon 109, p50) converts all cold damage to nonlethal damage.  It has two prerequisite feats, tomb-tainted soul and endurance.  A fire bat (Monster manual II, p102) has regeneration overcome only by cold damage and six hit dice.  So, customize the feats on one, and you've got a CR 3 creature that can only take nonlethal damage. 

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