Astral Plane & Fast Healing

[Necrosnoop110]

Thank you for finding that, and proving my original point that fast healing will still work in the astral plane.

I've gotta go with this... It's specific > general, right? If it heals at the beginning of each round, then it would work on timeless planes....

Specific within the context of a given rule. A specific rule for crafting mundane barrels does not override the general rules of a plane, it only overrides general rules about crafting barrels. Apples to apples, oranges to oranges. 

[Kethrian]

Yep, specific rule that fast healing functions every turn trumps no natural healing on the astral plane, since characters still have turns on the astral.

[Demelain]

Natural Healing does not work on the Astral Plane.
Fast Healing is like natural healing, except when explicitly defined otherwise.
Fast healing does not explicitly work on the Astral Plane.
Natural Healing, its super-class, explicitly does not work on the Astral Plane.

I fail to see what it occurring each round has anything to do with it. A round is not some kind of magical measurement which supersedes reality. It is a convenient measure of time which D&D uses to define how long a turn takes to complete. A round is 6 seconds. You can experience 6 seconds on the Astral Plane subjectively, just as you can experience 8 hours on the Astral Plane subjectively. But in reality, nothing about your body, physically, has changed in any way - because the plane has the Timeless trait. Your body has not healed itself, because its processes are effectively suspended while you remain on the Astral Plane.

[Kethrian]

Natural healing is named "natural healing".
Fast healing is named "fast healing".
Effects, spells, and abilities with different names do not get affected by effects that alter something with a different name, even if referenced to.  (An effect which specifically affects the spell Shout has no effect upon the spell Greater Shout unless it specifies Greater Shout as well, even though Greater Shout says that it functions just like Shout except for certain things.)  Being like another ability =/= being that ability.

[Nanshork]

This is just going in circles.

[Demelain]

This is just going in circles.

Indeed, which is why I have ceased discourse until such a time as I can dig up something new.

[Roxoff]

This is just going in circles.

I completely agree - if it were me making the call, I'd rule that the Fast Healing didn't work in this environment, there needs to be 'passage of time', and the descriptions of the Astral Plane given here tell us that time doesn't pass as such on this plane - nothing heals, nothing dies, it experiences no 'time'.  Fast Healing, like any other kind of natural healing (i.e. not necessarily Natural Healing) needs time to pass.  We could argue this in circles for ever - but I don't think this interpretation is unreasonable, and it makes sense.

[Gazzien]

This is just going in circles.

I completely agree - if it were me making the call, I'd rule that the Fast Healing didn't work in this environment, there needs to be 'passage of time', and the descriptions of the Astral Plane given here tell us that time doesn't pass as such on this plane - nothing heals, nothing dies, it experiences no 'time'.  Fast Healing, like any other kind of natural healing (i.e. not necessarily Natural Healing) needs time to pass.  We could argue this in circles for ever - but I don't think this interpretation is unreasonable, and it makes sense.

[newtangent]Does this mean you can't recover spells / get new "uses/day" of abilities?[/tangent]

edit: This is a serious question, I actually have no idea.

[Kethrian]

If regeneration, spell recovery, renewal of per day abilities, etc. were also stopped due to the timeless trait, then I would be fully supportive of it also denying fast healing.

[Roxoff]

[newtangent]Does this mean you can't recover spells / get new "uses/day" of abilities?[/tangent]

edit: This is a serious question, I actually have no idea.

I suppose it does - if the Astral Plane behaves as described above in this thread, i.e. that there really is no passage of time, despite what you experience while there, then none of those things would behave normally.

[Gazzien]

[newtangent]Does this mean you can't recover spells / get new "uses/day" of abilities?[/tangent]

edit: This is a serious question, I actually have no idea.

I suppose it does - if the Astral Plane behaves as described above in this thread, i.e. that there really is no passage of time, despite what you experience while there, then none of those things would behave normally.

Er, wait, but... I just realized, where does that leave the Githyanki? They have spellcasters, and are (pretty much only) found on the Astral Plane, right? What do they do, hop to the Material plane and rest in a Rope Trick for a few hours, then re-Etherealize back into their ships?

[Necrosnoop110]

If regeneration, spell recovery, renewal of per day abilities, etc. were also stopped due to the timeless trait, then I would be fully supportive of it also denying fast healing.

On first glance, I would say those other things do not stop. Since the traits for the plane call out specific aspects that are effected by the timeless trait. 

"On planes with this trait, time still passes, but the effects of time are diminished. How the timeless trait can affect certain activities or conditions such as hunger, thirst, aging, the effects of poison, and healing varies from plane to plane."

So, time still actually passes, clocks still tick, you can sleep, and time effects things other than hunger, thirst, aging, poisons, and healing.
 

[ksbsnowowl]

Going to have to side with Fast Healing not functioning on the Astral Plane.  Very interesting...

*Notes to make sure Niflheim in homebrew setting does NOT have the timeless trait...

[Kethrian]

If regeneration, spell recovery, renewal of per day abilities, etc. were also stopped due to the timeless trait, then I would be fully supportive of it also denying fast healing.

On first glance, I would say those other things do not stop. Since the traits for the plane call out specific aspects that are effected by the timeless trait. 

"On planes with this trait, time still passes, but the effects of time are diminished. How the timeless trait can affect certain activities or conditions such as hunger, thirst, aging, the effects of poison, and healing varies from plane to plane."

So, time still actually passes, clocks still tick, you can sleep, and time effects things other than hunger, thirst, aging, poisons, and healing.
 

I think you meant natural healing.  And that's exactly my point, it does not call out regeneration or fast healing or anything else not on its list, so fast healing works.

[ketaro]

This is just going in circles.

I completely agree - if it were me making the call, I'd rule that the Fast Healing didn't work in this environment, there needs to be 'passage of time', and the descriptions of the Astral Plane given here tell us that time doesn't pass as such on this plane - nothing heals, nothing dies, it experiences no 'time'.  Fast Healing, like any other kind of natural healing (i.e. not necessarily Natural Healing) needs time to pass.  We could argue this in circles for ever - but I don't think this interpretation is unreasonable, and it makes sense.

If time doesn't pass in the Astral Plane, then as soon as you enter it you are permanently stuck in the Plane and can never take any actions, rounds do not pass, ect ever because nothing experiences the passage of time and time does not pass as you just said.
You just effectively 'kill' anybody who enters the Astral Plane by that interpretation.

[Nanshork]

If regeneration, spell recovery, renewal of per day abilities, etc. were also stopped due to the timeless trait, then I would be fully supportive of it also denying fast healing.

On first glance, I would say those other things do not stop. Since the traits for the plane call out specific aspects that are effected by the timeless trait. 

"On planes with this trait, time still passes, but the effects of time are diminished. How the timeless trait can affect certain activities or conditions such as hunger, thirst, aging, the effects of poison, and healing varies from plane to plane."

So, time still actually passes, clocks still tick, you can sleep, and time effects things other than hunger, thirst, aging, poisons, and healing.
 

I think you meant natural healing.  And that's exactly my point, it does not call out regeneration or fast healing or anything else not on its list, so fast healing works.

Actually he's right.  It just says healing, it doesn't use the phrase natural healing at all.

How's that for horribly non-specific?

[Demelain]

If regeneration, spell recovery, renewal of per day abilities, etc. were also stopped due to the timeless trait, then I would be fully supportive of it also denying fast healing.

On first glance, I would say those other things do not stop. Since the traits for the plane call out specific aspects that are effected by the timeless trait. 

"On planes with this trait, time still passes, but the effects of time are diminished. How the timeless trait can affect certain activities or conditions such as hunger, thirst, aging, the effects of poison, and healing varies from plane to plane."

So, time still actually passes, clocks still tick, you can sleep, and time effects things other than hunger, thirst, aging, poisons, and healing.
 

My reading of the intent of the timeless trait (for what RAI and its interpretations are worth around here, anyway) is that physical processes are suspended on the Astral Plane. That is, the physical process of aging, digestion, healing, etc. is suspended. If you had a bleeding wound, it would not continue to bleed.
Mental processes - such as the recovery of spells - are not suspended. You can still take a subjective 8 hour break to "rest" and reset your spells. X/Day abilities still renew every subjective 24 hours.

Note, however, that while time is suspended, it is still "tallied" for when you leave. If you do not eat for several subjective months, you experience no effects while on the Astral Plane. Upon leaving the Astral Plane, you will be hit by starvation, however. (see SRD "Timeless:
On planes with this trait, time still passes, but the effects of time are diminished. How the timeless trait can affect certain activities or conditions such as hunger, thirst, aging, the effects of poison, and healing varies from plane to plane.
The danger of a timeless plane is that once one leaves such a plane for one where time flows normally, conditions such as hunger and aging do occur retroactively. ")

At the least, upon leaving the Astral Plane, if you had Fast Healing, you've got a ton of incoming regen.

[linklord231]

Things that renew on a per day basis (such as certain magic items) or at a certain time each day (such as cleric or druid spells) would not be renewed on the Astral Plane, because there are no "days" and so that particular time of day never comes around.  But a Wizard could still sit down and rest for 8 subjective hours and regain his spell slots, since they aren't dependent on "days". 

That would also make in interesting strategy for assassinating certain powerful creatures with Regeneration... trick or force them onto a timeless plane, beat them into unconsciousness, then take as long as you feel like to finish them off because they'll never heal all that nonlethal damage. 

Are there any creatures native to the Astral Plane that have per day racial abilities (not derived from class levels)? 

[kitep]

From the FAQ

Does fast healing function within the Mournland?
No. The MM describes fast healing as “just like natural
healing” (page 309), which indicates that it does not function in
the Mournland.

I have no idea what the Mournland is, but I feel this quote is relevant

[Demelain]

From the FAQ

Does fast healing function within the Mournland?
No. The MM describes fast healing as “just like natural
healing” (page 309), which indicates that it does not function in
the Mournland.

I have no idea what the Mournland is, but I feel this quote is relevant

Please, let this not turn into a discussion over the legitimacy of the FAQ.