Author Topic: Keeping the wizard alive  (Read 5413 times)

Offline Braininthejar

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1464
  • I'm old...
    • View Profile
Keeping the wizard alive
« on: May 28, 2013, 06:51:00 PM »
As the title suggests, I'm looking for tips on how to keep wizards alive (at various levels). Being both a player and a GM, I find myself on both sides of the battle line and often with a wizard I don't want to get one-shotted.

I have already learned that protection from evil protects a wizard from enemies conjuring pouncers out of nowhere and flight keeps him away from most close combat. There are ample spells to protect from projectiles and typical elemental damage.

What is left is

1 save of suck/die spells that target fortitude - not all of them are death effects

2 non-elemental blasting, such as horrid wilting or a druid conjuring a ton of lumber on top of the party. these will just bruise the tough guys, but for a wizard, thay are an actual threat, especially in boss fights.

Offline LordBlades

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 914
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Keeping the wizard alive
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2013, 11:34:18 PM »
How I usually go about stuff that you mentioned:

1. a combination of good fort saves and rerolls.

How to get good saves:
a)plain save buffs like Greater/Superior Resistance (SpC), DMM Persist Mass Conviction (also SpC, if you have a cleric that's into that), extended Benediction (Complete Champion, also if you have a cleric/paladin on hand, also grants a reroll)
b)get a good Con score. Most good shapes you can Polymorph into have a good Con score.

How to get rerolls: Alter Fortune (PHB II), Mantle of Second Chances (item from MIC), Lock Blade (item from DMG), see benediction above).

It's not hard to make a wizard that never fails a save :cool

2. most blasting has saves(usually ref half, turns into ref none with a Ring of Evasion) or some form of attack (usually ranged touch attack). It's not hard to get both defenses high enough to be safe. See above for saves, and a good Polymorph+scintillating scales does wonders for touch AC.

Offline Kasz

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 574
  • The God-Emperor protects, the Omnissiah provides.
    • View Profile
Re: Keeping the wizard alive
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2013, 05:36:06 AM »
Having a Contingency spell of Heal on you if you drop below X hp can help, or something that breaks LoS such as...

Lesser Celerity for a move action (get out the way of falling rocks... move outside the breath attack... get behind a wall to break LoS)

Celerity for a Standard Action (put a wall of stone between you and falling rocks... in front of the party to make the break attack useless... and break LoS)

(getting immunity to Daze makes Celerity even better obviously)

Also Conjuration spells tend to have to be cast on a surface capable of supporting them... to prevent summoning a celestial hippo on the BBEG's head.

1) Headband of Concious Effort - make a concentration check rather than a fort save 1/day for 4,000 gp. Get built into a Tiara of +Int maybe make it 3/day for a suitable cost... Skill checks are easier to optimise than saves and this prevents failure on a 1. 

2) MOAR HP... False Life and it's ilk. Perhaps have the party bagofhp Barbarian UMD a wand of Shield Other on you...

Also if you're a conjuration specialist... abrupt jaunt works wonders for avoiding basically anything that can be avoided with an immediate action teleport... which is a lot of things.

Offline MirddinEmris

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Holier than thou
    • View Profile
Re: Keeping the wizard alive
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2013, 05:42:16 AM »
As i recall, Polymorph doesn't grant you additional HP due bigger Con score.

Be a Dwarf and Max out Con (after Int, of course). I remember playing one and having more HP than party fighter (26 Con vs 15 really matters).

Offline Braininthejar

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1464
  • I'm old...
    • View Profile
Re: Keeping the wizard alive
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2013, 06:03:25 AM »
Quote
Also Conjuration spells tend to have to be cast on a surface capable of supporting them... to prevent summoning a celestial hippo on the BBEG's head.

That particular conjuration doesn't have that problem - dropping a pile of lumber on the enemy is what it's supposed to do. and it only allows ref save to avoid being knocked prone.


Offline Kasz

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 574
  • The God-Emperor protects, the Omnissiah provides.
    • View Profile
Re: Keeping the wizard alive
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2013, 06:57:22 AM »
Quote
Also Conjuration spells tend to have to be cast on a surface capable of supporting them... to prevent summoning a celestial hippo on the BBEG's head.

That particular conjuration doesn't have that problem - dropping a pile of lumber on the enemy is what it's supposed to do. and it only allows ref save to avoid being knocked prone.

Still completely avoided by either being somewhere else with mirror image and/or blur and/or displacement. Or by using lesser celerity to move out of the way.... or abrupt jaunt... or celerity and casting a teleport, or gaseous form, or passwall, or meld into stone (the floor), or wood shape, or reverse gravity, or baleful transposition would be my favourite... requires him failing a save but making his the subject to his own spell is sweet revenge.

Offline Braininthejar

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1464
  • I'm old...
    • View Profile
Re: Keeping the wizard alive
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2013, 07:37:20 AM »
Blur? I understand the others (assuming we can cast them in the middle of the enemy action) but how would blur help?

Also, the playtest of my next boss fight has revealed, that casting all the protections required to defend from all that stuff turns a wizard into a giant firework when hit with reciprocal gyre.

Offline Craiconn

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 290
  • 31" Vertical Leap ...
    • View Profile
Re: Keeping the wizard alive
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2013, 03:06:23 PM »
Not so much the actual spell Blur ... but magical gear (there are many) that provide concealment & cover benefits.

Also look into your Wizard acquiring a Rat Familiar with +2 CON bonus (+4 CON if an Elf Generalist with the ACF). 
« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 03:08:07 PM by Craiconn »

Offline MirddinEmris

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Holier than thou
    • View Profile
Re: Keeping the wizard alive
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2013, 08:50:11 AM »
Not so much the actual spell Blur ... but magical gear (there are many) that provide concealment & cover benefits.

Also look into your Wizard acquiring a Rat Familiar with +2 CON bonus (+4 CON if an Elf Generalist with the ACF).
It's not a Con bonus, it's a bonus to Fort saves.

As for Reciprocal Gyre, this spell targets your Will save, which should be very strong, you shouldn't fail it often. Make the Con stat second after your Int and you should be fine (or cast spell turning/buy ring of spell turning/cast spell immunity/buy ring of counterspelling, the possibilities are endless).

Offline Kasz

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 574
  • The God-Emperor protects, the Omnissiah provides.
    • View Profile
Re: Keeping the wizard alive
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2013, 10:54:03 AM »
If you want to optimize health as a Wizard I thought the best method was being a Faerie Mysteries Initiate to use your INT rather than CON. (Passions)

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7639
  • classique style , invisible tail
    • View Profile
Re: Keeping the wizard alive
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2013, 04:48:00 PM »
Interesting, though you need two of you (easy enough).
And switch to the +1 Saves later.


3.0e Psi has a feat that gives any one of the other
stats as your 1st level hitpoint booster.  At this point
I'm hazy on the name, or prereqs.  Heck the book is $2.
 :tongue
Your codpiece is a mimic.

Offline Braininthejar

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1464
  • I'm old...
    • View Profile
Re: Keeping the wizard alive
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2013, 07:20:34 PM »
Quote
As for Reciprocal Gyre, this spell targets your Will save, which should be very strong, you shouldn't fail it often

It may be will/half, but it hits with d12s.

I'm looking for tips regarding spell choice more than builds - as I had stated, I am both a player and a GM, so I may need to apply those to whatever wizard I have just ended with.

(Most importantly I am GMing a campaign based on Baldur's Gate 2, and I really don't want the battle with Irenicus to last 6 seconds.)

Offline MirddinEmris

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Holier than thou
    • View Profile
Re: Keeping the wizard alive
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2013, 10:22:43 PM »
Quote
As for Reciprocal Gyre, this spell targets your Will save, which should be very strong, you shouldn't fail it often

It may be will/half, but it hits with d12s.

I'm looking for tips regarding spell choice more than builds - as I had stated, I am both a player and a GM, so I may need to apply those to whatever wizard I have just ended with.

(Most importantly I am GMing a campaign based on Baldur's Gate 2, and I really don't want the battle with Irenicus to last 6 seconds.)

I'm looking at Complete Arcane version and it's d6s, not d12s, where your version from? And i already mentioned other methods of negating such spells. First one is good old spell turning (or ring of spell turning if you feel like this) also there is a Ring of Counterspeling and it's cheap, like REALLY cheap - you cast one spell into it and the next time someone cast on you, the spell is counterspelled. Also the good one is AMF combined with Sculpt Spell metamagic or Mastery Of Shaping class feature of Archmage.

Offline Braininthejar

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1464
  • I'm old...
    • View Profile
Re: Keeping the wizard alive
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2013, 04:59:22 AM »
spell compendium

Quote
Also the good one is AMF combined with Sculpt Spell metamagic or Mastery Of Shaping class feature of Archmage.

Since entering spells are supressed and not dispelled, wouldn't that be self-defeating? Logically, a spell cast from the outside should affect nothing around the wizard, but affect the wizard himself... :huh
« Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 05:14:23 AM by Braininthejar »

Offline MirddinEmris

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Holier than thou
    • View Profile
Re: Keeping the wizard alive
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2013, 11:26:32 AM »
spell compendium

Quote
Also the good one is AMF combined with Sculpt Spell metamagic or Mastery Of Shaping class feature of Archmage.

Since entering spells are supressed and not dispelled, wouldn't that be self-defeating? Logically, a spell cast from the outside should affect nothing around the wizard, but affect the wizard himself... :huh

I believe that AMF breaks line of effect, so you wouldn't be affected, at least by this spell. Though there  are ways, for example something like Ord Of Acid will go through AMF))

Offline Braininthejar

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1464
  • I'm old...
    • View Profile
Re: Keeping the wizard alive
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2013, 09:02:17 AM »
What about an area attack with a point of origin outside the field?