Grease (Still Don't Get It)

[Necrosnoop110]

I've asked this a hundred times and I just still don't get it. I've never seen Grease ever be all that effective at any game table I've played, especially above the lowest levels. And I most certainly don't get how I'm told over and over that it is virtually guaranteed to work. All I ever see is maybe one missed save out of several; I realize that can be huge but the certain part is what I fail to get.

Now, I'm not about to say that I'm right and the entire community is wrong ...  but I am willing to ask please help me understand why this is so universally considered such a reliable spell. Splain it to me like I'm a five year old.

Thanks,
Necro

 

[Saxavarius]

I may be wrong but im pretty sure that everyone within the area of grease is treated as flat-footed unless they have 5+ ranks in tumble.

[Concerned Ninja Citizen]

The save is only part of the spell's effect. It immobilizes enemies who fail a balance check and most monsters have no ranks in balance. Lastly, even if they succeed on the save and the balance check they're still flat footed unless they have 5+ ranks in balance (and see above about monsters and ranks in balance.)

It's a double save or suck and a no save be flat footed. The save becomes irrelevant in the later game but the balance check and flatfootedness stays relevant much longer. It's good against low dex opponents because they're more likely to fail the balance check and it's good against high dex opponents because they are hurt more by losing their dex to AC (and are more likely to have dodge bonuses and other random things that don't work when flatfooted.) It also synergies nicely with sneak attack, sudden strike, and Iajutsu Focus.

That's quite a large amount of utility for a 1st level spell.

I may be wrong but im pretty sure that everyone within the area of grease is treated as flat-footed unless they have 5+ ranks in tumble.

Balance, not Tumble, but otherwise you're right.

[phaedrusxy]

Ninja'd... Oh well.

It's also a bit tricky to get out of the area even if you make the saving throw. You have to make a balance check to move at all, and even if you succeed you're limited to half speed and are considered "flat-footed" if you have less than 5 ranks in Balance. Of course, if you fail the check by more than 5, you fall down despite the fact that you made the initial save.

So it's of course not nearly as nasty as something like Web or Glitterdust, but it can still be a pretty decent impediment, and in a party with one or more rogues using ranged weapons it can be a sneak-attack enabler.

[Bozwevial]

As a side note, it also completely shuts down Frenzied Berserkers, as Balance is a Dex-based skill which can't be used during a frenzy.

[Concerned Ninja Citizen]

And, when sculpted as a 2nd lv spell, it becomes pretty solid battlefield control giving four 10ft squares of hard terrain that does all of the above noted things.

[Necrosnoop110]

I did miss that bit about being considered flat-footed while balancing. I suspect lots of people miss that since it's not in the spell directly.

That said, at higher levels can't larger creatures just step out of the area or magical creatures just fly off? (playing the gadfly here

[Kethrian]

I did miss that bit about being considered flat-footed while balancing. I suspect lots of people miss that since it's not in the spell directly.

That said, at higher levels can't larger creatures just step out of the area or magical creatures just fly off? (playing the gadfly here

Yes they can, but not every enemy has those options.

Ice Slick is similar to Grease, but has 4x the area (20' square instead of 10'), dispenses with the reflex save, and raises the balance check to the save DC.  It's a very nice alternative, plus Ice Slick is available to clerics.

[Concerned Ninja Citizen]

Flying pretty much negates Grease (though if the flyer is standing on the ground when you cast it, they're still affected until their turn), as does having ranks in balance, and uncanny dodge to some extent.

There's lots of spells that are shut off by abilities that become more common at high levels, though, and the fact that it's necessary to have a certain ability to make a 1st lv spell no longer affect you at high levels (as opposed to it just not affecting you because it's a 1st lv spell and you're high level) is impressive in itself.

As to stepping out of the area, I'm not sure. The wording of the spell seems to me like you'd need to make the balance check even for a 5ft step, though I'm not 100% on that.

[Sinfire Titan]

Flying pretty much negates Grease (though if the flyer is standing on the ground when you cast it, they're still affected until their turn), as does having ranks in balance, and uncanny dodge to some extent.

Although in some cases you can still use Grease as an impromptu disarm attempt, effectively turning the spell into a Mass Snake's Swiftness+Daze if they pick the weapon back up (or just straight-up removing their weapon from the equation if they have natural weapons).

[zook1shoe]

Thanks from me also, I never really saw that stuff either

[ksbsnowowl]

It's also one of the better spells for Chain Spell.  Chain that grease, and put it on the BBEG cleric's holy symbol, and his right boot, and his left boot, and his weapon, and the feet of his minions, and, and, and...

[MirddinEmris]

It's also one of the better spells for Chain Spell.  Chain that grease, and put it on the BBEG cleric's holy symbol, and his right boot, and his left boot, and his weapon, and the feet of his minions, and, and, and...

"EVERYONE, GREASE!!!"

[Kasz]

There's also the fact that it shuts down a large portion of charging type enemies, making the terrain very difficult to charge through.

You can cast it on yourself/party member if it's a creature with improved grab/grapple.

You can cast it on an item to disarm a foe or to stop someone stealing the quest macguffin.

Hell... you can put it on squeaky hinges and wagon cartwheels in your downtime.... or coat your enemy's wagon brakes so they don't work, or his wheels so he crashes when he gets to a corner.

It doesn't have a duration so you can fill a 20 foot pit traps with 10 foot of grease... good luck making that climb check, or having a friend pull you out.

So much utility in combat and out... and "scales" with level better than some piddly magic missile or lesser orb damage. It's well worth a spell known / prepared slot.

[MirddinEmris]

There's also the fact that it shuts down a large portion of charging type enemies, making the terrain very difficult to charge through.

You can cast it on yourself/party member if it's a creature with improved grab/grapple.

You can cast it on an item to disarm a foe or to stop someone stealing the quest macguffin.

Hell... you can put it on squeaky hinges and wagon cartwheels in your downtime.... or coat your enemy's wagon brakes so they don't work, or his wheels so he crashes when he gets to a corner.

It doesn't have a duration so you can fill a 20 foot pit traps with 10 foot of grease... good luck making that climb check, or having a friend pull you out.

So much utility in combat and out... and "scales" with level better than some piddly magic missile or lesser orb damage. It's well worth a spell known / prepared slot.

Actually, it has a duration 1 round/level.

[Craiconn]

Yeah, even at mid-to-high levels, it will situational utility.  It's a rare low-level "attack" spell that doesn't need to be heightened (metamagically) and is quite useable in its original 1st level slot.

I'd be careful putting Grease into the uber-cost-economical Minor Schema, Wand or Eternal Wand due to the baseline CL1 of the item .... which gives Grease only a 1 round duration.  If you put Grease into such a magic item, you'd need at least a CL5 or higher to ensure it gives your party some time to take advantage of the unique benefits of the spell.  Ergo, keeping Grease as a Wiz/Sorc spell slot is often a better idea ...

[Craiconn]

On a related note, there are some Grease spell variants that are interesting for comparison/contrast purposes:

Incendiary Slime (2nd Level) - http://dndtools.eu/spells/complete-mage--58/incendiary-slime--784/
Sticky Floor (1st Level) - http://dndtools.eu/spells/races-of-the-dragon--83/sticky-floor--3081/
Ice Slick (1st Level) - http://dndtools.eu/spells/frostburn--68/ice-slick--1256/

(( The latter spell was mentioned earlier by Kethrian )) ...

I'm probably missing a few others.

[zook1shoe]

sticky floor can make some interesting combos with grease

[Kasz]

Actually, it has a duration 1 round/level.

Well I feel stupid... I thought it was one of those Duration: Instantaneous spells. Consider me corrected... Magic grease casting traps can account for all the uses I listed though.

[dumah87]

I cast it on a cleric's holy symbols/mage's arcane components/warrior's blades...