Author Topic: Beast of Xvim/Bane and Poison...  (Read 5310 times)

Offline ksbsnowowl

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Beast of Xvim/Bane and Poison...
« on: June 18, 2013, 08:36:53 PM »
I'm statting up a Beast of Xvim Quasit, and I'm going through the template and read this part I knew of, but never really gave much thought to in this regard:

Quote
Special Attacks:  As base creature, but damage from special attacks increases in the same way as damage from physical attacks [referencing all physical attacks increasing one die size, similar to Improved Natural Attack].

From the Quasit stat block:
Quote
Special Attacks:    Poison, spell-like abilities
...
Poison (Ex):  Injury, Fortitude DC 12, initial damage 1d4 Dex, secondary damage 2d4 Dex.

Does this in fact mean that the Beast of Xvim Quasit's poison would deal 1d6 Dex damage as primary, and 2d6 damage as secondary?  This could be quite nice... especially with the increased save DC from added monster HD (and that can presumably go on forever, thanks to its Feed ability)...

Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Beast of Xvim/Bane and Poison...
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2013, 08:40:16 PM »
It looks like a technical yes, but you might want to verify it if there are examples in the book that can be used to see if they truly did intend it like that.  Are there?

Offline ksbsnowowl

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Re: Beast of Xvim/Bane and Poison...
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2013, 09:09:22 PM »
The only two statted examples we have are a Hell Hound (Monsters of Faerun), which does increase the damage die of its breath weapon from the 3.0 Hell Hound's 1d4+1 to 1d8+1 (which incorrectly bumped it up two steps, but does demonstrate that it does apply to special attacks), and a Shadow Mastiff (Shadowdale: The Scouring of the Land), which has no damaging special attacks to apply it to.  There are no statted examples that have poison.

Edit:  There is actually a third example creature. Shadowdale also has a Beast of Bane Invisible Stalker.  It also has no damaging special attacks with which to demonstrate.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2013, 09:58:55 AM by ksbsnowowl »

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Beast of Xvim/Bane and Poison...
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2013, 03:34:16 AM »
That's a nice catch :)
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Offline Kasz

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Re: Beast of Xvim/Bane and Poison...
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2013, 07:03:20 AM »
It says it increases the damage die of any special attacks. Poison is a special attacks with a damage die. Therefore it increases the poison.

It also lists spell like abilities as special attacks... so if you found a creature with damage SLAs I guess those SLAs would do more damage that normal? D8's for fireball SLAs seems interesting as an example.

Offline ksbsnowowl

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Re: Beast of Xvim/Bane and Poison...
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2013, 10:02:05 AM »
It says it increases the damage die of any special attacks. Poison is a special attacks with a damage die. Therefore it increases the poison.

It also lists spell like abilities as special attacks... so if you found a creature with damage SLAs I guess those SLAs would do more damage that normal? D8's for fireball SLAs seems interesting as an example.
I actually did realize the SLA possibility at the same time as that of the poison. It's just that none of the Imp's SLA's deal damage.

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Beast of Xvim/Bane and Poison...
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2013, 11:59:04 AM »
since it doesn't seem to say 'innate'... just be a spellcaster.... spells are a SA
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Offline ksbsnowowl

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Re: Beast of Xvim/Bane and Poison...
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2013, 12:38:23 PM »
since it doesn't seem to say 'innate'... just be a spellcaster.... spells are a SA
Beast of Xvim does not have an LA that I know of, but Beast of Bane does (LA +2, IIRC).  They are almost exactly the same.  The main difference is that Beast of Bane doesn't grant a free additional HD upon gaining the template; you have to earn them by eating humanoids.

Offline whitetyger009

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Re: Beast of Xvim/Bane and Poison...
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2013, 02:28:35 PM »
stupid question.

what book is this template in?

Offline ksbsnowowl

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Re: Beast of Xvim/Bane and Poison...
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2013, 02:41:37 PM »
stupid question.

what book is this template in?
Beast of Xvim is a template from the back of Monsters of Faerun.  It has a 3.5 update to its DR in the web enhancement for Player's Guide to Faerun.

It was republished and slightly altered in the appendix of the hardback adventure Shadowdale: The Scouring of the Land, where it is relabeled as the Beast of Bane template (Xvim is Bane's son).

The updated one in Shadowdale slightly readjusts the damage increase (making it copy the die progression of the Improved Natural Attack feat), altering how many humanoids must be eaten to gain a Hit Die (3 humanoids vs. Xvim's 8 HD worth of humanoids), incorporating the 3.5 DR change from the PGtF web enhancement, and no longer giving a free bonus HD when you gain the template (which doesn't much matter, as you can gain HD by eating three humanoids).

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Beast of Xvim/Bane and Poison...
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2013, 02:45:13 PM »
Feed is one of the most broken abilities out there. a town of commoners gives you LOTS of levels
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Offline ksbsnowowl

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Re: Beast of Xvim/Bane and Poison...
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2013, 03:04:13 PM »
A little more insight into the differences between the 3.0 Beast of Xvim and the 3.5 Beast of Bane.

The Beast of Xvim's Frightful Presence ability specifies that it Frightens those affected for 5d6 rounds.
The Beast of Bane's Frightful Presence ability neglects to specify what fearful status condition it inflicts for 5d6 rounds.
The Frightful Presence ability entry in the MM glossary/SRD specifies that the creature description will tell you what it does, and merely states that it can impose the frightened or shaken condition.
I would suggest just having the ability impose the Frightened condition on a failed save, as the 3.0 version does.

The 3.0 Barghest's Feed ability required 8 HD worth of humanoids to gain a HD, just as the 3.0 Beast of Xvim did.  The 3.5 Barghest's Feed ability requires 3 humanoids, just like the 3.5 Beast of Bane does.  One missing tidbit from both BoX and BoB is that it never mentions how long it takes to consume a corpse (a Barghest takes a full-round action).  One way to help rein in the power of a BoX or BoB is to say it takes a reasonable amount of time, given the size of the Beast and the size of the creature it is eating.  A BoX Imp would take at least an hour to eat a human, for example.  Just make it something that has to happen out of combat, basically.

Kasz recently pointed out there is a feat in Player's Guide to Faerun, for Clerics of Bane, that allows them to, once per tenday (ie - once per week) touch an animal and make it become a Beast of Bane (it then directs you to the Beast of Xvim template in Monsters of Faerun) on a failed Will save.  As an added bonus, its extra damage (from its once per day Smite Good ability) is considered Vile damage.

Offline kitep

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Re: Beast of Xvim/Bane and Poison...
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2013, 03:40:54 PM »
They also changed the barghest from 3.0 to 3.5.  In 3.5, it only gains HD by feeding on things with more HD than it already has, and it adds a max HD cap.


Offline ksbsnowowl

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Re: Beast of Xvim/Bane and Poison...
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2013, 03:46:24 PM »
They also changed the barghest from 3.0 to 3.5.  In 3.5, it only gains HD by feeding on things with more HD than it already has, and it adds a max HD cap.
Lucky for the Beasts of Bane, they do not suffer from such restrictions...  :plotting

Offline Kasz

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Re: Beast of Xvim/Bane and Poison...
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2013, 05:39:01 PM »
Added bonus to the animal conversion hate touch thingy, doesn't specify a limit to how many animals or HD of animals you can control, yet it does state that they are loyal to you.

So Clerics of Bane are better Beastmasters than Beastmasters.

A fun note would be considering the damage of a charging fleshraker beast of bane, with it's improved rake, improved poison and once it advances HD improved natural attack bite, to go with the improved claws.

That being said, the template can be added to any corporeal creature (by the DM) so add it to anything with magic and their magic becomes better... it's like improved natural attack for wizards.

EDIT: Well...improved natural attack for spells...and poison...and natural attacks...and gore, rend and trample and stuff...and it stacks with improved natural attack.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2013, 05:43:51 PM by Kasz »

Offline ksbsnowowl

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Re: Beast of Xvim/Bane and Poison...
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2013, 06:30:19 PM »
A fun note would be considering the damage of a charging fleshraker beast of bane, with it's improved rake, improved poison and once it advances HD improved natural attack bite, to go with the improved claws.
:twitch... :bigeyes

I'll see your wager, and raise you one AMF-enshrouded Great Wyrm:lol

Yeah, I think Beast of Xvim/Bane is one of my favorite templates (after Half-Troll and Shadow Creature).

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Beast of Xvim/Bane and Poison...
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2013, 08:46:32 PM »
Its one of mine, behind Tauric and a couple others.
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