Author Topic: 3.5 Gestalt Hulking Hurler Idea  (Read 6363 times)

Offline The Sach

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3.5 Gestalt Hulking Hurler Idea
« on: September 19, 2013, 05:05:33 AM »
Hey People... Been a long time since I posted anything (not since BG I think)

Anyway... new campaign starting up... Gestalt rules.

DM's rulings thus far: Anything viable from any source book (with approval) with the exception of Incarnum. Rolled abilities. LA buy-off is allowed. Racial templates/classes take up only one side of the gestalt, and if the LA is bought off, we simply swap in the new class at that point (and make the required changes to our character)

Further restriction added for myself and one of the other players (as we are the experienced ones): No tier 1, could swing tier 2 with some sweet talk (but only one such class in the mix, never two), no evil alignment, and we get to make our characters after the other 4 players have chosen theirs (we're more suited in filling in the gaps of the party, whilst leaving the other players to just go with whatever the hell they feel like).

This also means we can make suggestions to the other players, but we have to go with what they like (So please, no posts about suggested changes for the other party members... I'm just giving you as much information as I have at this point)

So far, here is the party:
1. Dwarf Knight//Swordsage - Says he's going for standard melee tank
2. Half-Elf Bard//Scout - Party face primarily, scout secondary, damage tertiary
3. Pixie Sorceror//Warlock - Blaster
4. Uldra Spirit Shaman//Healer - Healing/Summoning as far as we're aware

There aren't too many gaps in the party (excluding the fact a wizard would help everything (as they always do)) so the other player and I have decided to have a little fun with our character concepts so far, and also try not to step on too many toes.

His main idea at this point is a Feytouched Human Ranger/Scout(Swift Hunter)//Spellthief with the idea of going into Beloved of Valarian (he is not 100%sold on spellthief)

I got the urge to play a Giant. However, seeing as most giants have an ecl of at least 16 (and I don;t want my race to take up the majority of one of my progressions) have decided to go with a Half-Ogre (The RoD variety, NOT Savage Species)

The only class levels I'm set on, is Hulking Hurler.

The general concept I've got so far is a peace loving Giant, who often gets judged for his race, but it actually quite protective and kind. Starting off LG then progressing towards NG or CG alignment.

Class wise I'm thinking Warblade on one side, Monk/Psy War (Talashatora) on the other.

Ability favour: STR>CON>=WIS>INT>DEX>CHA

So my questions...

1.) Given I can eventually buy off my LA +2, the general build I've got is Monk 2/Psy War 15/Hulking Hurler 3//Warblade 20... or should I out the Hulking Hurler on the Warblade side and get the extra three levels of Psy War?

2.) There were other ideas I considered, and could be convinced to fit in: Bloodstorm Blade, some Swordsage (for setting sun), or Ardent instead of Psy War

3.) How bad overall would it be to use Vow of Poverty with this build? As I don't see the character using specific weapons... just throwing rocks and punching people that get too close.

Points I want to stress: No barbarian levels, No Warhulk (I know both of these would be great, they just don't fit the flavour), HAS to have all three levels of Hulking Hurler.

I thank you for any feedback you may provide.

Offline Lunarambling

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Re: 3.5 Gestalt Hulking Hurler Idea
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2013, 10:47:02 AM »
Is the Martial Monk ACF available? This can be a great alternative. It replaces the bonus feats at 1st and 2nd with ANY fighter feat. You do not have to meet the prerequisites. Not really familiar with Hulking Hurler builds, but sure there are some hard to get feats this would let you pick up basically for free. Other than that, I don't have much in way of suggestions as like I said, I am not that familiar with the build. Though it would likely be worth it for most throwing builds to get some Bloodstorm Blade if possible.

Offline Iainuki

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Re: 3.5 Gestalt Hulking Hurler Idea
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2013, 01:31:05 PM »
Hulking hurler is hard to make work with anything else because it's so specialized.   You get one attack a round that does massive damage because of the exponential scaling of carrying capacity with Str, and again because of the exponential scaling, no other contributions to your damage are going to matter.  You don't need damage when you can throw an improvised weapon, so everything else you get should be damage when you can't throw a weapon, abilities that help you throw a weapon when you wouldn't normally be able to, and out-of-combat utility.

1) The psionic side of your progression is more important than the TB side more or less because psionics is better at the support role you need from your other class levels so get as much psionics as you can, putting hulking hurler on the TB side.  (TB also multiclasses a lot more gracefully than psionics.)  Go monk 2/psychic warrior 18//warblade 17/hulking hurler 3, but see below for discussion of classes.  You want a lot of feats so I don't see ardent being better than psychic warrior here.

2) Aside from bloodstorm blade and swordsage, you might want to look at master thrower.  Again, see below.

3) Vow of poverty is really bad.  The way it's written it prevents you from doing very ordinary things like climbing a ladder ("[Y]ou must not... use any material possessions").  Arguably, it prevents you from using improvised weapons since they're material possessions but not simple weapons.  It will definitely cause problems if you ever end up needing to use lead improvised weapons or something similar.  It's a headache for the DM and crippling for you, so make life easier for  everyone and avoid it.

Since you're not going to have stratospheric strength from any combination of barbarian, war hulk, or frenzied berserker, you might have to worry about the damage you do.  Expansion is the single most important ability you'll get because it increases your strength and, by increasing your size, your carrying capacity.  You want to look at the belt of the wide earth (MIC) and the Natural Heavyweight feat (PlH) for further improvements to your carrying capacity.  I assume you're going for overburdened heave and area attack with hulking hurler because those are the only two reasonable choices.  (Ranged power attack and meteor strike are useless since you only get one attack, and there are better ways to get those abilities other places.  Knockdown blow is of limited usefulness against monsters.)

There's a really central question about the rules with maneuvers you need to ask your DM to resolve before you start: how does the full-round action you need for hulking hurler's two-handed hurl trick interact with the standard and full-round actions needed to activate some strikes?  It's quite hard to give advice without knowing the answer to that question.

Bloodstorm blade: Returning attack, thunderous throw, eye of the storm, and blood rain seem like they should definitely work with two-handed hurl trick to me, but eye of the storm and blood rain aren't any good.  Blade storm and blood wind ricochet are in themselves full-round actions, like strikes, so depend on how your DM handles the aforesaid rules issue, and martial throw does also.  Returning attack depends on what weapons you're using and how available they are.  If you're using a lead sphere you made yourself, returning attack is a lot more useful than if your DM makes available an ample supply of rocks or similar improvised weapons everywhere you go.  Thunderous throw's value depends on what melee attack feats and other abilities you get, though it takes your swift action so is rather expensive especially when you have both psionics and TB maneuvers too.  I think you should focus on picking ranged feats and class features in the first place, but thunderous throw is an option especially if you want to take things that help your unarmed style.

Master thrower (CW): The key rules question here is if you can take Weapon Focus (improvised throwing weapons) or something similar so you can apply thrown weapon tricks to your improvised weapons.  The other abilities are okay, but the reason to take this class are the thrown weapon tricks.  You're going to want Concentration anyways so defensive throw is great.  Weak spot has a size limitation that makes it hard to combine with expansion and Large size but should make it trivial to hit big monsters.  Two with one blow is another good choice since weirdly area attack isn't good for hitting multiple targets unless they're small enough to occupy the same square.

Feats: You're taking a straight-up -2 attack penalty to start with and your weapons won't be masterwork or have enhancement bonuses so you need feats that will improve your accuracy.  You really really want Brutal Throw (CAd) so you can use your high Str on your attack rolls.  You have to take Point Blank Shot, which gives a small accuracy boost, and your party will greatly appreciate it if you take Precise Shot, which is a prereq for Master Thrower anyways.  Improvised thrown weapons have a tiny range increment so Far Shot will help a significant amount at improving your accuracy.  If you can get the necessary Dex, Improved Precise Shot is a great feat for all ranged characters.  If you end up taking the necessary warblade and bloodstorm blade levels to get Weapon Specialization, Ranged Weapon Mastery (PH2) gives a boost to the range increments on improvised  thrown weapons that deal the appropriate damage type and +2 attack with them.  Fell Shot is another way to make your thrown attacks into touch attacks, though you'll need to use hustle and take Psionic Meditation to apply it every round, and will burn through your power points in the process; it also takes Psionic Shot, which won't do anything for you, and 13 Dex.  Neraph Throw (PlH) is an interesting choice that lets you deny Dex to AC once an encounter per enemy with a thrown weapon attack, which might help hitting targets with high Dex or lots of dodge bonuses.  There are others, but those are the ones I'd look at first.

Maneuvers: You'll want to look at the handbook that lists maneuvers that work with ranged weapons: http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=11233.  Without knowing how your DM intends to handle the aforesaid rules interaction, I can't really say more.

Have you considered half-giant rather than half-ogre?  With powerful build, you should still qualify for hulking hurler.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2013, 11:31:55 AM by Iainuki »

Offline The Sach

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Re: 3.5 Gestalt Hulking Hurler Idea
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2013, 02:34:27 AM »
Thanks for the speedy reply.

I had considered Half-Giant, but thought that it would not qualify for Hulking Hurler. I'll have to ask my DM about it, but otherwise, I assume it's the superior choice (Neither race hampers me in the long term, due to LA Buy-off... just annoying short term due to being a level behind at times)

Your point about the importance of psionics over ToB is well put, and I'll follow your advice. Same with Vow of Poverty.

Master Thwrower is a strange one. I see your point about Defensive throw, and Two with One Blow, but Weak Spot just seems to work against expansion and strength builds. Master Thrower to me always seemed more like the Dexterity based thrower, whilst Hulking Hurler was the strength based. The two don't seem to mix well, but I'll give it a second look.

Feats wise you're thinking what I'm thinking so far. I was planning on using the Psychic Warrior's bonus feats, as well as the Warblade's ability to count as a lower level fighter (for feats), to take the weapon focus tree to ranged weapon mastery. At this point I guess Brutal Throw, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Talashatora, Monastic Training, and Power Attack are the must haves (for pre-reqs mainly) and the I'll be spending the rest towards improving accuracy primarily.

Thanks again for the advice, and keep it coming!

Offline Lunarambling

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Re: 3.5 Gestalt Hulking Hurler Idea
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2013, 03:37:09 AM »
If you can take Martial Monk, then you can take Improved Precise Shot and Ranged Weapon Mastery as your two bonus feats at 1st and 2nd level since you do not have to meet the prerequisites. Martial Monk really would be a HUGE boost to this build.

Offline ImperatorK

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Re: 3.5 Gestalt Hulking Hurler Idea
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2013, 11:44:43 AM »
I'm confused. How does War Hulk not fit the flavor of a Hulking Hurler? :??? They're almost the same flavor-wise - Big, strong war machine.
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Offline zook1shoe

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Re: 3.5 Gestalt Hulking Hurler Idea
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2013, 01:08:13 PM »
Must get the Natural Heavyweight feat in Planar Handbook, and Belt of Wide Earth from Magic Item Compendium.

there are a couple ways to get ridonkulous Str using Symbiotic, Tauric, Lycanthropy, and Bug-thropy
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Offline nijineko

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Re: 3.5 Gestalt Hulking Hurler Idea
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2013, 09:59:39 PM »
hmmm, the portable hole full of beer pdf has the bowler prestige, which when combined with hulking hurler is a massive bouncing betty full of fun. so long as you can talk the DM into allowing third party. ^^

Offline dna1

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Re: 3.5 Gestalt Hulking Hurler Idea
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2013, 10:03:28 PM »
You might want to go for a large sized Anthromorphic Animal?  Such as a Anthromorphic Elephant. Better than a giant IMO..  or Use the Half-Minotaur template for large size.

And yes war hulk and hulking hurler are good together.. but to each there own. You know with the right race/templates and warhulk you can easily hit a Str in the 60's and higher :devil
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Offline zook1shoe

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Re: 3.5 Gestalt Hulking Hurler Idea
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2013, 03:44:40 AM »
Anthro-Squid Tauric squid gives you 18 tentacles + Girallon Arms soulmeld + Girallon Arms spell + Arms of Plenty + Fuse Arms = +56 Str on top of stats and base squid
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Offline BearsAreBrown

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Re: 3.5 Gestalt Hulking Hurler Idea
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2013, 03:50:06 PM »
Strongly consider playing a strange race. Even something like Centaur. Quadrupeds load amounts are +50%.