Chinese Star: Mixing Strength and Beauty

[TechyKat]

New version looks pretty good.

Radiant Rainbow Spirals is a boost but the initiation action is an immediate action.

Yellow Tremor Kick-isn't just 10 feet burst a bit too short? Perhaps could use some scaling up at least.

Colourful Wind Typhoon-Seems a bit too strong for a 3rd level stance, would suggest reducing the miss chance to just 5%+5% per 4 ranks in Iajutsu Focus(or make it non-stackeable with other miss chances).

Scarlet Inch Crush-"deals extra damage equal to the amount of bonus dice that this checks outcome would add". So if you would add+5d6, you just add +5 damage? Doesn't seem much.

Sky Dragon Kick- "As this earlier maneuver, but better in every way". Seems a bit cheap to go that route. How about a temporary penalty to AC or reflex saves to represent a higher risk-reward?

Earth Dragon Leap-How about instead of IL, it adds your ranks in Iajutsu Focus plus your Cha mod to jump checks? Otherwise it seems more of a Tiger Claw maneuver.

Overall looking pretty nice, keep up the good work!

Scarlet inch crush is meant to add the bonus dice, but I am unsure how to word it so it is clear that you add the bonus dice. I've edited Sky Dragon Kick for more risk/reward (but I might have gone a bit overboard.)

Will probably use your other suggestions also.

Edit: rewrote part of Scarlet inch crush, earth dragon leap and made colourful wind typhoon un-stackable with other forms of concealment.

[Anomander]

@Osle: You're correct, but also not quite. She uses Iaijutsu as part of the initiation of many of her spellcards.

She sheaths her sword before using Human Sign "Slash of Present", Sword Skill "Thousand Cherry Blossom", Obsessor "Slash of Eternity", Cherry Blossom Sword "Flashing Scattered Flowers" and Closed-Eye Slash "The Bullet-Cutting Spirit Eye from Roukan" but that's about it.
Those look like legendary Iaijutsu techniques, removing the blade from the sheath just before attacking.
She has more iaijutsu spellcards than she has attacks with two swords, yet her maneuvers portray her as a two weapon user.
In PCB, maybe you are not seeing right. I see her unsheathing her sword right before she starts using danmaku almost every time, then sheathing it back in when she is done to unsheathe it again when she starts to use her next attack.

[TechyKat]

Added 6th level manoeuvres, although I need a bit of help with Intense Rainbow Fist as I am very bad at tiering debilitating effects. Are the ones that I put any good and would you recommend moving any around. As I am unsure that it is worded very clearly and would like to know whether or not it is well worded.

Also is Chaotic Dance level approriate?

[oslecamo]

Rainbow Sign “Intense Rainbow Fist”-Flat footed should demand to have been hit one time,  negative level to have been struck 2 times.

Chaotic Dance seems good for 6th level tough.

[TechyKat]

I reworded Fragrant Wave so that it is clearer that you can target enemies in the air. Hopefully the wording isn't too hard to understand.

Also edited Rainbow fist to your suggestions, would like more ideas for conditions that you could inflict though, especially higher tier conditions.

Edit: realised I accidentally reduced Fragrant Waves power by a lot and reverted to old wording.

[TechyKat]

Added 2 7th level manoeuvres. Will probably add more tomorrow, hopefully get 8th level done too.

[TechyKat]

Okay, it is basically done now.

I need to add 1 or 2 stances and then it is complete.

However, I would like to know if Qi Sign "Fierce Tiger's Inner Strength", Colorful Light Lotus Flower Palm and Instant Lightning Strike are way too good. I suspect that Fierce Tiger's Inner Strength is way too good (mostly due to taking the action economy and breaking it in half) and would like to know if it is so I can improve it/balance it better.

Also need to finish the feats.

[ketaro]

Instant Lightning Strike could probably say it only recovers Chinese Start maneuvers? Maybe, just in case. I dunno, just don't see why it would recover any other discipline's maneuvers you might know instead if some one tried to. I like it though.

Colorful Negation barrier; you're basically replacing your normal save roll with an Iaijutsu Focus check, right? The wording didn't come off as entirely clear first time reading it. As well what do you mean by "a projectile that will affect an area that you are in"? This is suppose to be used to counter any AoE you are within right? So it would not work on a single target effect targeting you, right?

Fierce Tiger's Inner Strength; Just the 1 round of unconsciousness at the end of it seems a bit too debilitating to me. I mean, this is what you'd use promptly before jumping right to the front and going all gung-ho but then when time is up you're knocked out and unless you give up that last round of attacks to make a safe retreat you're probably going to be at the foot of any enemies still standing who may just rather likely coup de grace you. Being unavoidably stunned for the round would seem better in my opinion :/

But let's hear what the more experienced ToBhou discipline creators have to say instead

[TechyKat]

Huh I could have sworn that it said recover Chinese Star manoeuvres, eh I changed that because that was the original intent anyway.

Colourful barrier has been reworded more like the previous ones, hope that is more clear. It is supposed to counter any AoE that you are in such as a fireball yes. Although I might extend to effect single targets too I guess.

An unavoidable stun + prone could be fine, simulates unconciousness but without the sadness of being coup de grace'd.

[oslecamo]

Destructive Strike “Sudden Roc’s Fist”-Swaping bab for DC is simply way too strong. Besides the maneuver already looks more than good enough on its own with three attacks as a standard inflicting debuffs and bonus damage. Perhaps the usual "dazed if immune to stun".

Earth and Sky Dragon Kick-Perhaps it could use some extra range/reach?

True Focus, True Grace-I would strogly sugest don't let this be combined with skills, otherwise it turns you into the ultimate jack of all trades. It's already insanely good by allowing you to turn ability score checks into skill checks (Iajutsu Focus for Iniative, breaking objects, grapple, you'll basically auto-win all of those). Actually, perhaps better to make this 8th level even if you prevent it from being combined with skills. And removing the counter option. Or limit it just to attacks/saves.

Qi Overdrive-Seems a superior Raging Mongoose as long as you're not TWF. Should probably be restricted to just melee attacks.

Instant Lightning Strike-What's stopping you from spamming all this time even if out of combat to keep getting free attacks all the time?

Colourful Negation Barrier-Nice, but kinda situational, could be probably be moved back to 7th level.

Flower Sign "Colorful Light Lotus Flower Palm"-Better define "normal melee attack".


Qi Sign "Fierce Tiger's Inner Strength"-Should pierce any immunity to stun the iniator herself has.

[TechyKat]

Destructive Strike “Sudden Roc’s Fist”-Swaping bab for DC is simply way too strong. Besides the maneuver already looks more than good enough on its own with three attacks as a standard inflicting debuffs and bonus damage. Perhaps the usual "dazed if immune to stun".

I've made the manoeuvre a bit clearer (the intent was that all previous disables must be on to get a higher tier disable), also made the swapping bab for DC worse in that it is not only less efficient, it also makes the manoeuvre worse if you go too overboard. The main reason that I added the swap BaB for DC is that since it is a Fort save, if you want it to even effect the big tough guys (and higher level monsters in general) you have to make yourself very unaccurate although since it is based on your Str the DC will probably be very high anyway, maybe make the DC based off Cha and leave the swapping, or get rid of it altogether but I am unsure.

Earth and Sky Dragon Kick-Perhaps it could use some extra range/reach?

Yeah, reading it again, I agree. Done.

True Focus, True Grace-I would strogly sugest don't let this be combined with skills, otherwise it turns you into the ultimate jack of all trades. It's already insanely good by allowing you to turn ability score checks into skill checks (Iajutsu Focus for Iniative, breaking objects, grapple, you'll basically auto-win all of those). Actually, perhaps better to make this 8th level even if you prevent it from being combined with skills. And removing the counter option. Or limit it just to attacks/saves.

Reading it again, I realised the ridiculous stuff you could do with it. I've significant reduced the power since it can't apply to skill checks, it isn't supposed to apply to stuff like combat options like grapple but I am unsure of how to word that, should it just be 'You cannot use this manoeuvre to substitute an Iaijutsu Focus check for combat options such as Grapple and trip'? Also how would you use it for initiative, as you can't use actions while rolling for initiative so it would have to be an ambush I guess.

Qi Overdrive-Seems a superior Raging Mongoose as long as you're not TWF. Should probably be restricted to just melee attacks.

I totally forgot Raging Mongoose existed. I have now changed it, should be lower power now.

Instant Lightning Strike-What's stopping you from spamming all this time even if out of combat to keep getting free attacks all the time?

Well, when you initiated a manoeuvre you would be unable to recover manoeuvres. So repeating it would make you unable to recover any manoeuvres, but I have instead made that much clearer and also made it take an action to use. Maybe too weak now, probably not.

Colourful Negation Barrier-Nice, but kinda situational, could be probably be moved back to 7th level.

I agree.

Flower Sign "Colorful Light Lotus Flower Palm"-Better define "normal melee attack".

I have made that clearer now (Just ripped the wording from Diamond Nightmare Blade).

Qi Sign "Fierce Tiger's Inner Strength"-Should pierce any immunity to stun the iniator herself has.

Done.

[TechyKat]

I felt that Qi Sign "Fierce Tiger's Inner Strength" was rather boring, so I made it have cooler and sometimes way crazier implications. Tell me what you think about, I also cleared up some stuff with it such as before you could end the stance to recover everything then change stance and not suffer any drawbacks. Also made it impossible to maintain while suffering from the drawbacks (Also makes for some ridiculous stuff like Flower Sign "Colorful Light Lotus Flower Palm" becoming the ultimate alpha strike, but making it also a all or nothing move.)

[oslecamo]

Earth and Sky Dragon Kick- 30 feet still feels a bit short, in particular for something called "Earth and Sky Dragon kick". Why not make the range scaling?

Colourful Negation Barrier-What action needed to keep the barrier? What's stopping you from just walking everywhere around with it to protect from ambushes?

True Focus, True Grace-Somewhat unclear wording in " these attack rolls deal extra damage equal to the result that the Iaijutsu Focus skill check would result in." Don't you mean the skill check you just rolled?

Flower Sign "Colorful Light Lotus Flower Palm"-Hmm, I still don't see anything actually detailing what counts as a normal attack.


Qi Sign "Fierce Tiger's Inner Strength"-Pretty cool new version, but I would add a clause that if you iniate two maneuvers, then it doesn't triple/quadruple your melee attacks.

[TechyKat]

Earth and Sky Dragon Kick- 30 feet still feels a bit short, in particular for something called "Earth and Sky Dragon kick". Why not make the range scaling?

Made it scaling range and boosted it in general, now feels cooler to me.

Colourful Negation Barrier-What action needed to keep the barrier? What's stopping you from just walking everywhere around with it to protect from ambushes?

I gave it an action to maintain it, although I will probably make it a move action so that you can't walk around everywhere to protect from ambushes.

True Focus, True Grace-Somewhat unclear wording in " these attack rolls deal extra damage equal to the result that the Iaijutsu Focus skill check would result in." Don't you mean the skill check you just rolled?

Hopefully it is cleared up! I mean that the extra damage the Iaijutsu Focus check would result in extra dice should be added, as if every attack was Iaijutsu Focus quickdraw'd.

Flower Sign "Colorful Light Lotus Flower Palm"-Hmm, I still don't see anything actually detailing what counts as a normal attack.

Uh, hopefully it is clearer. I am not sure how to word it if it isn't. 

Qi Sign "Fierce Tiger's Inner Strength"-Pretty cool new version, but I would add a clause that if you iniate two maneuvers, then it doesn't triple/quadruple your melee attacks.

Yeah, that shouldn't be a problem now. As it doesn't apply to boosts and stuff now, only manoeuvres that make attacks. Although it kinda ignores the skill check area damage ones now, although I am unsure how to incorporate them well.

I would say it is as finished as it is gonna be now, feel free to rip into me about how badly I designed everything now .

Edit: Forgot to mention, I added feats now!

[oslecamo]

Earth and Sky Dragon Kick- 30 feet still feels a bit short, in particular for something called "Earth and Sky Dragon kick". Why not make the range scaling?

Made it scaling range and boosted it in general, now feels cooler to me.

Feels cooler to me too, nice job!

Colourful Negation Barrier-What action needed to keep the barrier? What's stopping you from just walking everywhere around with it to protect from ambushes?

I gave it an action to maintain it, although I will probably make it a move action so that you can't walk around everywhere to protect from ambushes.

Good.

True Focus, True Grace-Somewhat unclear wording in " these attack rolls deal extra damage equal to the result that the Iaijutsu Focus skill check would result in." Don't you mean the skill check you just rolled?

Hopefully it is cleared up! I mean that the extra damage the Iaijutsu Focus check would result in extra dice should be added, as if every attack was Iaijutsu Focus quickdraw'd.

Ah, it is clear now.

Flower Sign "Colorful Light Lotus Flower Palm"-Hmm, I still don't see anything actually detailing what counts as a normal attack.

Uh, hopefully it is clearer. I am not sure how to word it if it isn't. 

Hmm, good enough.

Qi Sign "Fierce Tiger's Inner Strength"-Pretty cool new version, but I would add a clause that if you iniate two maneuvers, then it doesn't triple/quadruple your melee attacks.

Yeah, that shouldn't be a problem now. As it doesn't apply to boosts and stuff now, only manoeuvres that make attacks. Although it kinda ignores the skill check area damage ones now, although I am unsure how to incorporate them well.

I would say it is as finished as it is gonna be now, feel free to rip into me about how badly I designed everything now .

Perhaps it's for the best.

Anyway that's all maneuvers looking good now, great work you did there!

Edit: Forgot to mention, I added feats now!

Oh, shiny!

Shanghai Teahouse-Your usual "counts as another feat", basic but useful.

Shanghai Alice of Meiji 17-Oh, I quite like this one! And it would combo nicely with polearms.

Chinese Girl-Selaginella 9 is kinda absurd for something gained at 6th level, since it basically means you're gaining at-will long range teleporting (even if "limited" to just places you can see) as long as you've got someone to use as punching bag.

Scarlet Cannon-what happens if there's stuff in the way when they're being thrown. Anyway an absurdly good deal. If you were going to make 4 attacks, now you do two for triple damage, aka a whooping 150% damage. If you were making 5, you could be making three for triple damage, aka an even more whooping 180% damage. Aka you should stay away from raw damage multipliers.

Fluttering Petals and Falling Leaves-Usually the third option is dependant on the second option for this kind of feat. Otherwise inflicting a penalty on the enemy's save if they had already failed sounds good.

Perfect Memento-Oh, this one's crazily good. First of all, what happens if you put in enanchments that usually have limited uses? What if the weapon you're using usually wouldn't be a valid target for a specific enanchment?

Question: Mind if I use my mod powers to go around your maneuvers/feats adding Mei Ling fanservice pictures?

Or I could just post them here and you put them where you think they'll fit better.

[TechyKat]

Shanghai Teahouse-Your usual "counts as another feat", basic but useful.

Shanghai Alice of Meiji 17-Oh, I quite like this one! And it would combo nicely with polearms.

Chinese Girl-Selaginella 9 is kinda absurd for something gained at 6th level, since it basically means you're gaining at-will long range teleporting (even if "limited" to just places you can see) as long as you've got someone to use as punching bag.

You kinda need two people as a punching bag and you can only move up to your movement speed. I have probably worded it wrong. I will re-word it and just give it a maximum distance similar to shadow jaunt.

Scarlet Cannon-what happens if there's stuff in the way when they're being thrown. Anyway an absurdly good deal. If you were going to make 4 attacks, now you do two for triple damage, aka a whooping 150% damage. If you were making 5, you could be making three for triple damage, aka an even more whooping 180% damage. Aka you should stay away from raw damage multipliers.

Hm, yeah I see your point. I was only thinking in the maximum cases. I don't really know what would be a good compensation for giving up attacks though. As with this school if you give up attacks you typically give up both area control and effects from failed saves.
edit: changed it, it is weaker but too weak now. So I will have to think of something cool or just change it completely.

Fluttering Petals and Falling Leaves-Usually the third option is dependant on the second option for this kind of feat. Otherwise inflicting a penalty on the enemy's save if they had already failed sounds good.

I was trying to think of one that could be dependent on the others but couldn't think of anything that really fit.

Perfect Memento-Oh, this one's crazily good. First of all, what happens if you put in enanchments that usually have limited uses? What if the weapon you're using usually wouldn't be a valid target for a specific enanchment?

I didn't really think of enchantments that have limited uses, although I will probably put a caveat that those enchantments have their uses key off the memento rather than the transfer of the enchantments so you track their uses based on the memento. I can't really think of any specific circumstances where weapons not being valid targets would really come into play and be particularly strong/broken but maybe you can tell me some examples, will just simply disallow enchantments that wouldn't be valid on all weapons for now.

Question: Mind if I use my mod powers to go around your maneuvers/feats adding Mei Ling fanservice pictures?

Or I could just post them here and you put them where you think they'll fit better.

You can if you want, but I was going to do it anyway :3, I am just waiting for feedback in general.

[TechyKat]

Changed scarlet cannon in the feat for something that I like better. I dunno if it is balanced in any sense of the word, but I do like it.

Now, to find pictures and stuff!

[oslecamo]

Shanghai Teahouse-Your usual "counts as another feat", basic but useful.

Shanghai Alice of Meiji 17-Oh, I quite like this one! And it would combo nicely with polearms.

Chinese Girl-Selaginella 9 is kinda absurd for something gained at 6th level, since it basically means you're gaining at-will long range teleporting (even if "limited" to just places you can see) as long as you've got someone to use as punching bag.

You kinda need two people as a punching bag and you can only move up to your movement speed. I have probably worded it wrong. I will re-word it and just give it a maximum distance similar to shadow jaunt.

Scarlet Cannon-what happens if there's stuff in the way when they're being thrown. Anyway an absurdly good deal. If you were going to make 4 attacks, now you do two for triple damage, aka a whooping 150% damage. If you were making 5, you could be making three for triple damage, aka an even more whooping 180% damage. Aka you should stay away from raw damage multipliers.

Hm, yeah I see your point. I was only thinking in the maximum cases. I don't really know what would be a good compensation for giving up attacks though. As with this school if you give up attacks you typically give up both area control and effects from failed saves.
edit: changed it, it is weaker but too weak now. So I will have to think of something cool or just change it completely.

Both those looking good to me now.

Fluttering Petals and Falling Leaves-Usually the third option is dependant on the second option for this kind of feat. Otherwise inflicting a penalty on the enemy's save if they had already failed sounds good.

I was trying to think of one that could be dependent on the others but couldn't think of anything that really fit.

Something like only working if you hit them with the Scarlet Bell last turn?

Perfect Memento-Oh, this one's crazily good. First of all, what happens if you put in enanchments that usually have limited uses? What if the weapon you're using usually wouldn't be a valid target for a specific enanchment?

I didn't really think of enchantments that have limited uses, although I will probably put a caveat that those enchantments have their uses key off the memento rather than the transfer of the enchantments so you track their uses based on the memento. I can't really think of any specific circumstances where weapons not being valid targets would really come into play and be particularly strong/broken but maybe you can tell me some examples, will just simply disallow enchantments that wouldn't be valid on all weapons for now.

With those clarifications, looking pretty fine. Good job!

Question: Mind if I use my mod powers to go around your maneuvers/feats adding Mei Ling fanservice pictures?

Or I could just post them here and you put them where you think they'll fit better.

You can if you want, but I was going to do it anyway :3, I am just waiting for feedback in general.

Silly boy, fanservice upfront always guarantees more feedback!*

*The author of this post cannot be held responsible if in the future you include multiple images right away and then fail to get any feedback for months, like, say, Moon Vanguard.

[TechyKat]

Fluttering Petals and Falling Leaves-Usually the third option is dependant on the second option for this kind of feat. Otherwise inflicting a penalty on the enemy's save if they had already failed sounds good.

I was trying to think of one that could be dependent on the others but couldn't think of anything that really fit.

Something like only working if you hit them with the Scarlet Bell last turn?

Maybe, but the benefit is that Falling Leaves can apply to your allies also. So if you catch them in the area of your abilities they have a better chance of saving against your abilities the next time as you can make em roll twice and take the better result. If it only works on people who were hit by Scarlet Bell it would be rather ineffective . If it worked if you had hit anyone with Scarlet Bell on the previous turn I could see.
Edit: then again, they do already have to fail a save so you would have already had to hurt your ally to give them the "benefits" next turn. Yeah I'll just change to that they had to be struck by a Scarlet Bell enhanced manoeuvre, so that the third keys off the second in the standard ToBhou way.

Question: Mind if I use my mod powers to go around your maneuvers/feats adding Mei Ling fanservice pictures?

Or I could just post them here and you put them where you think they'll fit better.

You can if you want, but I was going to do it anyway :3, I am just waiting for feedback in general.

Silly boy, fanservice upfront always guarantees more feedback!*

*The author of this post cannot be held responsible if in the future you include multiple images right away and then fail to get any feedback for months, like, say, Moon Vanguard.

Haha, I'll make sure images appear soon.

[TechyKat]

Added dem pictures, would like feedback on the layout. I think it looks pretty, but I am not the best person at graphical design.

Also would enjoy general feedback.