Author Topic: Feat design?  (Read 3087 times)

Offline Quillwraith

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Feat design?
« on: October 01, 2013, 06:42:06 PM »
What do you prefer or disprefer in feats? Specifically, what do you think of the following:

Feats that scale with character level
   
Feats with ‘Greater’ versions.

Feats with use per day limits

Do you approve? Disaprove?

Offline bhu

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Re: Feat design?
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2013, 10:40:36 PM »
My main quibble with Feats is that all too often they encompass something a hero should be able to do, but can't without the proper feat.  Power Attack is a decent example.  Is there anyone who doesn't know how to swing harder?  Shot on the Run would be another.

Offline Demelain

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Re: Feat design?
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2013, 02:17:14 AM »
I prefer my tree-entry feats to not be garbage and to make sense.
Point Blank Shot is my least favorite feat, ever. If anything should be the Pre-Req for archery feats, it's Precise Shot. Fuck PBS.

Offline Gazzien

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Re: Feat design?
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2013, 02:27:20 AM »
I like feats that don't have feat-chain prerequisite. Also, screw Point Blank Shot.

Greater feat chains - don't like, I think they should scale with level.
Scaling feats - I like them very much.
Per day feats - I like passive benefits, not use/day feats.

Offline Unbeliever

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Re: Feat design?
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2013, 11:52:17 AM »
Pretty much what Gazzien and Demelain said.  Scaling feats are a bit of a sea change for D&D, so I am a bit leery of them.

Generally, I prefer feats that give options or easy to apply bonuses.  So, like everyone else I hate Point Blank shot.  It's sort of everything wrong with a feat at once:  small bonus, situational (so annoying to keep track of), and required to get to other more interesting feats. 

I also don't like per day abilities in feats.  It seems to muddy the water between feat and class ability.

Offline Childe

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Re: Feat design?
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2013, 09:50:10 PM »
Personally:

Quote
Feats that scale with character level - Yes, though some abilities may naturally scale if they work with other abilities that scale already. For example, all metamagics inherently scale not only with access to new levels of spells but with the breadth of spells you know/can cast/etc. But I'm also not averse to feats granting multiple unique abilities if each component ability isn't on its own worth a feat, since 3.5 isn't built off of a point-buy system that can make it more granular.
   
Feats with ‘Greater’ versions. - No, see above.

Feats with use per day limits - Generally, no. Amusingly my own feat I just made has one because it's keyed to another ability (Bardic Music) with per-day limits, but my larger homebrew rewrite projects are all moving toward recharge systems. In the case of the feat, it was just easier to go with what already exists. The inertia can sometimes make a change a hard sell for GMs.
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Offline Argent Fatalis

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Re: Feat design?
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2013, 02:56:15 AM »
Scaling Feats
Scaling depends entirely on how the feat accomplishes that -  a feat that grants a +1 bonus to say, Bluff, each level is radically more powerful beyond level 3 than Skill Focus (Bluff), and rapidly begins to get silly beyond that - and that's all ignoring Skill Focus is generally bad for most characters and builds. But a feat that grants +2 to Bluff for every 5 character levels you possess isn't really an issue to me by comparison because its still radically eclipsed by everything else in the game by the time that +8 at level 20 comes around, or even that +4 at level 10.

I suppose the best example I can think of is the non-existent scaling of mundane bonuses, such as the +1 to attack, +2 to damage, etc - they can't, and never will scale simply because that feat is a 1 for 1 trade, or 1 for 2 trade; you only, forever, get that +1 to attack (or +2 to damage), rather than a scaling bonus to attack (or damage) every X levels.

They're silly compared to other things like Power Attack which naturally by design scale.

Greater Feats
Greater feats should be greater, as in, you sunk 2 feats to do X, it really should do X better than Y or Z.

Going back to the previous example, which is obviously Weapon Focus (or Weapon Specialization), why is Greater Weapon Focus effectively the same thing as Weapon Focus? Why bother calling it "Greater", aside from the fact it takes Weapon Focus (which doesn't stack) and a higher Fighter level when it does the same thing as Weapon Focus but stacks the benefits, for a pitiful +2 bonus to attack rolls? Why doesn't it provide something like a +3 bonus to attack rolls, which explicitly stacks with Weapon Focus? Its "Greater" after all.

In general, I have no issue with the concept of "Greater" feats, except for their application - they should be much improved versions of the feat before hand, not more minor, effectively non-existent increments.

Feats with Per Day Limits
Again, my issue is application. Most of these "uses per day" suck, or don't make significant enough impact to really validate themselves, especially when they're used in conjunction with something your character does all the time anyway... unless it opens up a new feature to your character, a talent they couldn't usually preform, and is relatively a large change to the standards of the character (Fighter getting a feat that has a 1/day SLA that provides say, Fly).

Most of these "Per Day" feats should be per encounter/combat - their benefits are marginal, useful at times, but not ground breaking enough to merit only X amount of uses per day.

Offline zugschef

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Re: Feat design?
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2013, 04:30:36 AM »
  • Fuck feat chains. Fuck 'em hard.
  • Fuck feats which you don't care about. Fuck 'em hard.
  • Fuck feats which represent stuff normal people can do. Fuck 'em hard.
  • Fuck feats which should be class features. Fuck 'em hard.
  • Fuck feats which provide numerical bonuses and nothing else. Fuck 'em hard.
  • Fuck feats which are like an existing class feature, but better. Fuck 'em hard.
  • Fuck feats which duplicate an existing class feature. Fuck 'em hard.
  • Fuck feats which are like an existing class feature, but worse. Fuck 'em hard.
  • Fuck feats which are opportunity costs and nothing else. Fuck 'em hard.