General Discussion and Sugestions

[oslecamo]

That sounds like a pretty cool idea, but first I'd rather  actually get at least one  whole "chain" of promotions ready before adding that ability. I see you've already started working on the Abishai (will comment them later), so will need a Lemure,  Horned Devil, Amnizu and Paeliron, wee... Well, it's been some time since I've done some infernals.

[VennDygrem]

I wrote up what I think to be an improved version of the Tauric Creature class, but don't want to compound/complicate matters by posting it either in the original's thread or here on its own. Should I just simply keep it to myself? :/

[Bozwevial]

I put together an early version of the invisible stalker today because I was bored at work. Not really sure of the etiquette involved, though. Do I just post it for critiquing?

[VennDygrem]

Yeah, post it up like the other classes. That's what the rest of us do anyway.  Osle can always delete it.

[oslecamo]

You can both post right away, that has the added benefit of other people geting to critique it as well.

[Bozwevial]

Invisible Stalker is up.

[littha]

I hate to say this but something occurred to me about the wording on the Body abilities: You lose your racial traits and gain new traits but your creature type does not actually change. Nearly all of the monsters made with these classes end up targetable by humanoid only spells because their actual type remains what it used to be... Nor could you qualify for PRC/feats that require a specific type.

[Jackinthegreen]

Each monster entry says it is a certain type.  For example, the wording on the Ogre says:
"Features:
Ogre body: At first level, the Ogre loses all other racial bonuses, and gains giant traits (primarily low-light vision). It is a medium sized giant with a base speed of 30 feet and a natural armor bonus equal to his own Con modifier, plus darkvision 60 feet."

[littha]

Some of them are missing the latter clause. I will compile a list.

Air Elemental
Astral Stalker
Entropic Reaper
Brain in a Jar
Bronze Dragon
Brass Dragon
Blue Dragon
Black Dragon (also has a Subtype that does not exist.)
Lich
Death Knight
Fire Elemental
Obsidian Dragon
Crystal Dragon
White Dragon
Wing Dragon
Styx Dragon

List is incomplete, I only got through about 5 pages of classes before stopping so I would assume that all the dragon classes have this problem along with a lot of classes with a spoilered traits block (Undead/Construct) but not all of them.

[oslecamo]

Fixed.

[Jackinthegreen]

Mind if I make a Krynn minotaur?

[oslecamo]

Isn't that LA 0 race already?

But ok if it fancies you, as long as you don't make it stronger than the actual minotaur.

[Jackinthegreen]

It is normally LA +0, but I'm making something of a prestige class for it.  The full lore behind then on Krynn is that they're pretty darn powerful and have bigger weapons, so it'll mostly come down to a level for powerful build on top of their usual bonuses with their stat adjustments turned into a plain +1 boost to str and con.

[Sohala]

How do these classes interact with inherited templates and racial variants? My first thought was you can throw them on like normal, but best to ask.

[oslecamo]

Racial classes should be ok. They however were never planned to be combined with  "normal" templates and splatbook variants, so try it at your own risk.

[Sohala]

I doubt I would ever combine the racial classes with any "normal" template with a LA, but templates like racial variants, unseelie fey, dragonborn. Assumedly you either pick a race (with or without templates) and the feats monster-blooded and monster hybrid, or you just pick a racial class. Being the class is there 'race' the variant/templates could be applied to it? Though that brings up another question I suppose; what is lost when adding dragonborn after taking a level in a racial class?

[oslecamo]

The problem I have with racial variants is that there's simply a lot of power creep in that department. In particular Eberron material has a lot of sick stuff for dragons, usually trading little or even nothing for powerful bonus. Unseelie fey on the other hand would be an auto-pick for monster classes with lower HD and Cha-based. Morale penalty on all saves equal to your Cha bonus whitout saves of any kind? Seriously? You're gonna tear trough everything if you have any kind of Cha-based save-or-die. So I personally wouldn't allow it, altough some people with love for really high powered games may.

As for dragonborn, I'll be honest and say I have no idea how it would work. Ok, tecnically it would strip you of all your cool racial abilities except stat bonus, but that's kinda crippling.

[Sohala]

Sovereign archtypes (), they make for nice fluff and maybe npcs, I meant more of the UA and Dragon 306 variants. Unseelie was my first thought, how about amphibious instead?

[oslecamo]

-2 Dex for aquatic subtype right? It should be fine I guess. It's more of a case-by-case basis.

Also, added new FAQ entry clarifying that any tricks to gain extra HD don't count towards HD-based abilities.

[sirpercival]

I wonder how difficult it would be to make summary compilations for these classes.  For example, here are all the classes which stack for spellcasting, and these have their own progressions.