Kinetic Card! A Master Thrower/Soulbow build

[Sunspear]

This is my street hustler/con-man-discovers-he's-psionic build, inspired, of course, by Gambit.

The core concepts I used for this build:

• Psionically generated projectiles (re-flavored as kinetic cards) which are concealed and cannot be disarmed
• A cool concept (IMO) which ties your out of combat story skill (Sleight of Hand) with your effectiveness in combat
• Lots of attacks with extremely high effective chance to hit
• Lots of ranged precision damage, and a way to improve your chance of including it
• Note that I use Human as race - most thrower builds suggest Halfling, but conceptually I just can't get behind them... particularly for a street hustler

Class/Feat Progression
1 - Rogue 1 - Point Blank Shot, Two Weapon Fighting
2 - Soulknife 1 - Weapon Focus (Mind Blade)
3 - Soulknife 2 - Precise Shot
4 - Thug (Sneak Attack Fighter variant) 1
5 - Soulbow 1 - Rapid Shot
6 - Soulbow 2 - Combat Expertise, Mind Arrow Enhancement (Lucky)
7 - Soulknife 3
8 - Rogue 2
9 - Master Thrower 1 - Quick Draw, Imp. Two-Weapon Fighting, Palm Throw
10 - Master Thrower 2
11 - Master Thrower 3 - Sneaky Shot
12 - Master Thrower 4 - Snatch Arrows, Manyshot
13 - Master Thrower 5 - Improved Critical, Weak Spot
14 - Rogue 3
15 - Soulbow 3 - Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Imp. Rapid Shot
16 - Rogue 4
17 - Rogue 5
18 - Rogue 6 - Sense Weakness
19 - Rogue 7
20 - Rogue 8

Pros of this Build

• Mind Arrows (RAW) can be created and projected from each free hand. As such, they are eligible for the TWF tree. As projectiles, they are also eligible for feats such as Rapid Shot, Point Blank Shot, etc. Note that you may need to convince your DM that you are throwing the created projectiles rather than firing them. If he doesn't budge, try offering to reduce damage from 1d8 to 1d6 or 1d4+1 or something.
• Mind Arrows are also damage type Magic which helps overcome DR. Sense Weakness helps further reduce DR, which tends to be the bane of multi-attack builds.
• Soulbow 2 lets you enhance your created projectiles with any +1 attribute. Lucky is a +1 enhancement that lets you reroll once per miss. This makes it very hard for you to miss. You can also change your enhancement once you achieve 100% hit rate and swap it out for additional d6s of Holy, Fire, etc.
• Palm Throw lets you throw two little projectiles with each given attack roll. Although damage is resolved separately, this effectively DOUBLES your damage
• Sneaky Shot lets you make an opposed Sleight of Hand roll against your target's Spot prior to your attack. If you succeed, the target is denied their Dex bonus to AC. This allows you to proc your precision damage against these targets.
• Weak Spot makes all your attacks against anything Medium sized or larger ranged touch attacks.
• Combining Lucky, Sneaky Shot, and Weak Spot means that in practice you will never, ever miss your attacks.
• You can pretend to be MFing Gambit

Cons

• You will die to literally anything that requires a Fort save
• For that matter, you will die to anything that lands a solid hit on you
• No spells
• Your damage drops off a cliff against constructs and undead

At level 20, you will get 8 attacks (9 if your DM gives you a Rapid Shot per hand) which each deal 2d8 + 10d6 Sneak Attack + 2d8 Psychic + 6 + 2 * Wisdom Mod damage, and which can be rerolled and generally hits against touch AC and applies precision damage.

Expected damage on a full attack vs. something vulnerable to precision/psychic with base Wisdom and ignoring DR/resistance is 508. Min damage is 160; max damage is 1136.

Thoughts on the concept and/or execution?

[phaedrusxy]

The halfling rogue substitution would get you an extra 1d6 sneak attack on thrown weapons (and -1d6 on melee). Looks like a fun theme build.

[Shadowhunter]

Someone's a Gambit fan I see. A man after my own heart.
Now, there two issues with your build rules-wise, both of which concern precision damage (sneak attack).

First of, Palm Throw counts as a volley attack, which means it only applies precision damage on one attack, not both. This is clarified in the Complete Warrior errata.

Secondly, using Sneaky Shot requires a Move action before each and every attack, meaning that you can't rely on it for more than 1 attack per round.

[Sunspear]

Darn pesky errata, messing up my cheesing. Fortunately, however, Psychic Strike is NOT precision damage, so at least part of the bonus damage is amplified =) Palm Throw's too good to pass up anyways.

The Sneaky Shot issue is a bigger issue, particularly since using the move action then denies your full attack. Given that limitation, it probably makes more sense just to try to ensure that you get flanking (for precision) or use Invis/Hiding to deny dex. This can probably be replaced by Trip Shot or Defensive Throw or something.

Three substitution feats I wanted to call out:

• Dead Eye is one of the possible best feats for this build, adding Dex to your throws. It also has low pre-reqs and can be taken early. However, it requires your DM allow Dragon Compendium, which is not a given (since it has so many cheese feats like this one). It also doesn't work against anything immune to crit.
• Deadeye Shot denies enemy dex bonus to AC if you ready your attack and an ally then succeeds in hitting the target.
• Pathfinder has a feat which aggregates all your attack damage into a single attack, which basically entirely negates DR. Unfortunately, I don't remember the feat name. Anyone remember what it's called?

[Jackinthegreen]

That feat is called Clustered Shots.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

You can pretend to be MFing Gambit

Someone's a Gambit fan I see. A man after my own heart.

Soulknife specifically can shape your "knife" to appear as whatever.
Same with the Soulbow.
The shots can literally be playing cards.
 

[Nunkuruji]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSfpEG3SFc8

Just think of Professor-X as a wizard on the CO boards

[Azrael]

Throw in 3 levels of Swashbuckler and you'll get your int mod to damage.

[Sunspear]

I considered Swashbuckler very briefly but I think there's better gains by taking those 3 levels instead in Rogue.

[StreamOfTheSky]

I'd switch to (Deep*) Halfling for race and take the racial sub. level for rogue mentioned.  To recoup the lost feat, I'd drop the Thug and SA variants for Fighter - which I hate on their face anyway...both are terrible trades - and take Hit and Run Fighter instead.

*I never play a sneak attacker w/o darkvision.  That's just asking for sadness.

For any sneak attack build, doing a 2-level dip into Swordsage for Assassin's Stance is basically always a good idea.  Even more so if using daggers 'cause Shadow Blade feat...  I like to do the dip at ECL 9-10 straight levels, so all my maneuvers can be 3rd level.  But taking the first SS level at ECL 5 (IL of 1 + 4/2 = 3 = 2nd lvl maneuvers) and the 2nd at ECL 8 (IL of 2 + 6/2 = 5 = 3rd lvl maneuvers) or later also can be quite handy.  Especially if looking to qualify for Master Thrower, since SS 1 will give you free Weapon Focus with dagger and all the other shadow hand weapons.  Though I guess you have that covered from Soulknife...

Can you get Craven?  By mid-levels, it's a nice chunk of bonus damage and well worth the feat.
I'd get Imp. Precise Shot as soon as you have the BAB +11 for it, definitely before getting Greater TWF.  Normally a rogue "archer" would want Seeking property ASAP.  If you're not getting that on your thrown mind blades, you should at least try and protect against non-total concealment.  Any miss chance is going to screw you over bad.
For gear, Goggles of Foefinding (ignore non-total cover) and Gauntlets of Extended Range (double thrown weapon ranges) are both dirt cheap and very helpful to a thrower.

EDIT: Have you considered largely ditching sneak attack as your source of damage and instead getting as many bonuses to damage as you can (Shadow Blade and HaR Fighter gives Dex x 2 to damage, soulbow gives Wis to damage, etc...) and then using Palm Throw?  Perhaps with Trip Shot trick for added versatility?  Heck, if you can get *any* +1 enhancement on your mind daggers, there's also always the adaptive weapon + boomerang daze cheese, though I think that's a bit much.

[7h39]

Nice Concept!!!

What do you think about this??! Super SAD on Wisdom (with side dependancy on Dex)

Race: Human
Classes: Soulknife2, Fighter2, Soulbow 1(Retrained)+2, Shiba Protector 1, Swordsage 2, Master Thrower 5, Kensai 5

Soulkinfe 2
HD: 2d10
Skill Points: 4+Int x5
BAB/Saves: +1/+0|+3|+3
Special: MindBlade,Weapon Focus: MindBlade, Hidden Talent: (Force Screen), Throw Mind blade
Feats:
•   Human: Iron Will
•   Lv1: Psicrystal Affinity (Nimble) [Lv5] [Alertness]

Fighter 2
HD: 2d10
Skill Points: 2+Int x2
BAB/Saves: +2/+3|+0|+0
Feats:
•   Fighter1: Combat Expertise
•   Lv3: Zen Archery
•   Fighter2: Point Blank Shot

SoulBow3
HD: 3d10
Skill Points: 4+Int x2
BAB/Saves: +2/+1|+3|+3
Special: Mind Arrow, Mind Arrow Enhancement: Lucky (+1), +1 Mind Arrow
Feats:
•   SoulBow1: Rapid Shot
•   Lv6: Precise Shot
•   Soulbow3: Two-Weapon Fighting

Shiba Protector1
HD: 1d10
Skill Points: 2+Int
BAB/Saves: +0/+2|+0|+2
Special: No Thought

Swordsage 2
HD: 2d8
Skill Points: 6+Int x2
BAB/Saves: +1/+0|+3|+3
Special: Quick to Act+1, Weapon Focus: (Mind Arrow), AC Bonus
Maneuvers: Known:7, Redied:4, Stances:2 Max Level:1
Feats:
•   Lv9: Dead Eye

Master Thrower 5
HD: 5d8
Skill Points: 4+Int x5
BAB/Saves: +5/+1|+4|+1
Special: Quick Draw, Throw Weapon Trick (Palm Throw), Evasion, Throw Weapon Trick (DeadEye Shot), Snatch Arrows, Improved Critical, Throw Weapon Trick (Weak Spot)
Feats:
•   Lv:12: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
•   Lv15: Knowledge Devotion

Kensai 5
HD: 5d10
Skill Points: 4+Int x5
BAB/Saves: +3/+1|+1|+4
Special: Signature Weapon +5 [Splitting(+3), Collision(+2)], Power Surge, Ki Projection +2, Withstand
Feats:
•   Lv18: Greater Two-Weapon Fighting

Total
HD: 13d10 + 7d8
Skill Points: 4+Int x17 + 2+Int x3 + 6+Int x2
BAB | Saves: +14/+9/+4 | +8/+14/+16

Equipment:
Bracers of Archery, Greater 25.000gp
Belt, Monk's 13.000gp
Mind’s Blade Gauntlet (+2:Force) x2 100.000gp [UPD Emulate Race DC: 25]
Periapt of Wisdom +6 36.000gp
Tome of understanding +5 138.000gp
Gloves of Dexterity +6 36.000gp
Manual of quickness of action +2 55.000gp
Amulet of health +6 36.000gp
Manual of bodily health +4 110.000gp
Cloak of Charisma +6: 36.000gp
Tome of leadership and influence +4: 110.000gp
Ioun stone, pale blue rhomboid: 8.000gp
Headband of intellect +6 36.000gp
= 739.000gp

Ability Scores: 32PB
STR: 10/+0 (8 +2Stone)
DEX: 24/+7 (16 +6Gloves +2Manual)
CON: 18/+4 (8 +6Amuelt +4Manual)
INT: 20/+5 (14 +6Headband)
WIS: 34/+12 (18 +6(Periapt) +5(Tome) +5Increment)
CHA: 18+4 (8 +6Cloak +4Tome)

AC: 10 +7 Dex +12 Wis (Monk's Belt) +12 Wis (Swordsage2) +4 Force Screen (Soulkinfe1) = 45

Full Attack:
+14(-2 Two Weapon Fighting)
+14(-2 Two Weapon Fighting) [Two Weapon Fighting]
+14(-2 Two Weapon Fighting) [Rapid Shot]
+14(-2 Rapid Shot) (-5 Improved Two Weapon Fighting) [Improved Two Weapon Fighting]
+14(-2 Rapid Shot) (-10 Greater Two Weapon Fighting) [Greater Two Weapon Fighting]
+9(-2 Rapid Shot) (-2 Two Weapon Fighting)
+4(-2 Rapid Shot) (-2 Two Weapon Fighting)

= +12/+12/+12/+7/+2/+5/+0 x2(Palm Throw) x2(Splitting) [28 Mind Arrows] *(Lucky) *(Force) *Ranged Touch (Master Thrower5)

+1(Weapon Focus) +1(Soulbow3) +12 (Wis Zen Archery) +12 (Wis Shiba Protector1) +1(Point Blank Shot) +1(Knowledge Devotion) +2(Greater Bracers of Archery) = +30

1d8 +12 (Wis Soulbow1) +12 (Wis Shiba Protector1) +7 (Dex Dead Eye) +1 (Knowledge Devotion) +1 (SoulBow3) +1 (Greater Bracers of Archery) +5 (Collision) = 43

Crit: 19/20(Master Thrower4) x4(Master Thrower3)

[Sunspear]

@Stream: Halflings are cheese in my book

'Lucky' enhancements for Soulbow arrows are basically Seeking + with my attacks being vs? touch AC I'm not worried about hitting... More concerned with negating Precision immunity.

@7h: I really like the concept! Some thoughts:

- If you can get 2 more BAB, you get an additional 2 attacks on full attack, which translates to 8 attacks with Splitting and Palm Throw. That's something that would help a lot.
- Not sure if Swordsage is worth it. You already get Weapon Focus: Mind Arrows for free since Mind Arrows are modified Mindblades and Soulknifes get it for free. The Wisdom to AC is nice but there has to be a better thing to add...
- Knowledge Devotion seems subpar compared to Improved Rapid Shot... not that it really matters
- Some of the item choices don't quite work RAW. Mind Blade Gauntlets require the psionic focus thing, which means they only work on the 1st attack. Bracers of Archery are specifically for bows, not thrown weapons.

I think I would sub Swordsage 2 and 1 level of Kensai for 3 levels of a full BAB class (for full attacks). Right now I'd lean towards Ranger, which gives you Favored Enemy and Combat Style. Taken early, this gives you a bonus feat slot.

[Bard]

For sure I'd keep the Zen Archery, Shiba Protector and Kensai from that build, I was going to suggest them myself.
I'm not really a big fan of the monk belt tho. I'd rather have a light armor with some nice bonuses on it.

The Targetter fighter variant from Dragon Magazine might allow you to add your Dex to damage once more.

Edit:
So I read that you want more attacks? I give you more attacks.
Drop two levels of swordsage (that will kill your AC, but what is dead can't hurt you). Drop two levels of kensai... losing Collision hurts, but it might be worth it.
Get 4 more fighter levels. Using the Targetter Variant from Dragon (here I found someone that copied it on a pdf) get Vital Aim and Arrow Storm. That will net you 3 more attacks (1 from bab and 2 from arrow storm) with Dex to damage of each one to compensate for the lost Collision.
That's what... 24 more attacks?