Author Topic: intentionally gimped Wizard builds  (Read 4752 times)

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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intentionally gimped Wizard builds
« on: February 07, 2014, 03:43:59 PM »
 :)

I'm'n'a go semi-r.a.i. Erudite 11 / Eunuch Warlock 10
StP and Magic Mantle + pseudo-conversion,
not uniques per level per day, just uniques per day.
still needs some decent medium cheese to work at all.
Leadership class ability @ 14 gets around total gimping.
EW is from OA and is a weird 0/10 caster class, but
advances regular casting it's own way.

Other build ideas ??
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Offline Maat Mons

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Re: intentionally gimped Wizard builds
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2014, 04:23:57 PM »
Can you use the 3.5 update of eunuch warlock (Dragon 318, p35)?  It's 9/10 casting. 

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: intentionally gimped Wizard builds
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2014, 02:53:12 PM »
Hadn't thought of that one (long time no access).
Good -- or at least better -- idea, normally.
But that would very much un-gimp it ... so it'd be veto'd.

I'm trying to slide Wizard casting in, at "seems" below Bard casting.

Plus you know if you role-play becoming a Eunich  -_-'
you get a few extra get-out-of-jail-free cards from it.


Ideas for fake below Bard casting Wizards ??
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Offline Arz

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Re: intentionally gimped Wizard builds
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2014, 03:42:21 PM »
How about specialists? Like:
Spellthief, demonologist, or diabolist.

Stuff like that focuses on a small chunk of the wizard list.

On the funny side I noticed specialization is not a class feature for wizards. Its a sidebar option that wasn't explicitly corrected in the SRD, though the formatting makes it implicit by design. So its not totally unreasonable to have specialist sorcerers etc.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: intentionally gimped Wizard builds
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2014, 02:26:27 PM »
... or Master Of Masks and another iffy prc tacked on too.
Yathrinshee is too weak for my tastes, though cheese improves it.


Huh?
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm#schoolSpecialization
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Offline Arz

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Re: intentionally gimped Wizard builds
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2014, 07:01:48 PM »
Total divert; Its more an issue in the PHB. Nowhere in the class features does it mention that a wizard may specialize but the sidebar is explicitly for wizards. This is weird since animal companion and familiars do reference sidebars. Editing catch22.

As to the srd the wizard's spells section doesn't mention specialization at all.

Its totally wierd.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: intentionally gimped Wizard builds
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2014, 06:25:19 PM »
Wiz 14 / Fighter 6 with this ditty
http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=6347.0

... and could still go Dungeoncrasher.
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Offline Rebel7284

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Re: intentionally gimped Wizard builds
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2014, 10:56:49 AM »
I consider gishes who lose a caster level to enter swiftblade to be intentionally gimped (5+ lost caster levels!?).  However, admittedly, you can also look at it as a greatly improved warrior. =)

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: intentionally gimped Wizard builds
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2014, 04:07:42 PM »
Sure. 
I think the oldest semi-contrived standard
was BAB +16 and 9th level spells by level 20.
And mostly for mechanical reasons.

BAB +16 and (only) 1 7th level spell,
would seem to be in the range of a Bard.
I suppose the idea here, is to use stuff
that never gets used from varying suckitude,
but works fine "down" at this power level.

Must resist temptation to go anything goes.
 ;)

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Offline jeffrie

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Re: intentionally gimped Wizard builds
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2014, 02:23:54 PM »
What is your working definition of gimped? The easiest gimp for casters i ever DMd was: the casters max spells per day was reduced by two in every level. In that scenario you are just as strong as normal at low levels, only a bit weaker at mid levels, and fairly well decreased at upper levels, but you still get access to ALL THE SAME STUFF.

It seems like all you have to do to gimp is take a level or two of something useful but lame. A level of rogue would allow more skills, and a level of cleric would give some self heal, and then you would be gimped?

or alternately (what's gimped?) take Mystic Theurge but without any cheesy entry, and you would have lots of spells, but lower caster level and spell access, which is quite a gimp (imho).

Oh wait. I see who posted. I am sure you know everything i would say, except perhaps the first point.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: intentionally gimped Wizard builds
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2014, 03:27:06 PM »
My kitty avatar knows nothing ... but sees things it can not comprehend (and mange).
 :)


Mystic Theurge is still too strong ... wtf? no really.
Cleric 3 / Wizard 3 / MT 10 ... gets iffy levels 5 thru 8
but catches up in a hurry after that, and rockets past.
And might get to 9s anyway depending.


Something like (a smidge unfinished):
Rogue 1 / Wilder 4 / Assassin 1 + early entry / Mind Mage 10 / PT 2
... would have just the 1 7th level power sitting up there.
Would feel like the classic stereotype "blaster" and Face-y.
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Offline jeffrie

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Re: intentionally gimped Wizard builds
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2014, 03:33:33 PM »
MT would never get 9's unless the dm let some cheesy combo happen, which it seems this time would be a no. Still, i think MT is not that sucky in a non opt campaign. Gotta love spells all day.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: intentionally gimped Wizard builds
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2014, 03:39:34 PM »
Yeah.


It's rather hard work, dialing down tier 1s to Bard levels.
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Offline DavidWL

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Re: intentionally gimped Wizard builds
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2014, 08:36:07 PM »
I think the "trick" is to replace casting with ablities that are still cool (albeit not as strong).

* Mercury Wyrmling (Wyrm of War) 3/Erudite (Magic Mantle 1)/Cleric 1/Dweomerkeeper 4/Binder 1/Anima Mage 10
Notes:
* 200' perfect flight
* Get Travel Devotion as well ...
* 5 bonus fighter or monster feats (Flyby attack)
* 1 spell per day as a Su ability at 9th (Psychic Reformation --> super flexible)
* Binder 11
* Cleric or Erudite CL = 15 (Choose Erudite to gimp it a little, but still keep flexibility)

Still pretty strong strong, but speed + feats + Binder + Psychic Reformation makes for a very flexible and fun character who isn't even close to a full caster. 

Best,
David
« Last Edit: February 15, 2014, 08:38:44 PM by DavidWL »

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: intentionally gimped Wizard builds
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2014, 02:31:48 PM »
 :clap ... schweeet.


Mercury's speed is outrageously good; and personal fave.
LA buy-off.
Can't complain about the Magic Mantle cheese (points at self).
Could go Dweomerkeeper 2 to qualify for AM.
And get the 2 more levels later, allowing
Cleric 3 and Erudite 13 for even more limiting.


If you take the Wyrm Of War "feats" version instead
of the Sorc/ToB slots version, is there a way to keep
counting the RHD for purposes of Initiator Level ??
 :???
idk enough about Tiger Claw (or ToB) to know if it matters.
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Offline DavidWL

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Re: intentionally gimped Wizard builds
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2014, 12:18:59 AM »
:clap ... schweeet.


Mercury's speed is outrageously good; and personal fave.

Thank you

Yes, a favorite of mine too.

Quote
If you take the Wyrm Of War "feats" version instead
of the Sorc/ToB slots version, is there a way to keep
counting the RHD for purposes of Initiator Level ??
 :???
idk enough about Tiger Claw (or ToB) to know if it matters.

I don't know that much either, although I remember being distinctly underwhelmed with Tiger Claw.  I vaguely remember a build that was using Jade Phoenix Mage + Wyrm of War for some nice synergy.

Other thoughts on builds

Hiding Theme:
* Shadow Creature for Shadow Blend + Darkstalker = nice!
* Maybe something with Earth Dreamer?

Casting Flexibility:
* Eldrtich Master (much like Eunuch Warlock in funny progression), adds other class lists to spell list (Sorcerer, Cleric, Etc.)

Best,
David