How does one imprison a psion?

[StreamOfTheSky]

Other than an anti-magic/psionics warded cell?  Preferably something lower level/cheaper.  With a traditional caster, you can bind their hands/arms, take away their components and foci, gag them... and while some will still be able to cast, most will be shut down.  But psionics is inherently not subject to those sorts of limitations.  But it seems kind of crazy that it's impossible to keep a psion locked up, short of keeping him continuously beaten unconscious or in an insanely expensive cell.

Are there any other methods?  The party I'm DMing may or may not get thrown in jail at some point depending on their choices, and it got me thinking about how...I have no idea wtf I'd do about the psion PC.  I see crystal anchors in XPH, but those are way overpriced, only work against the active manifestation of a single specific discipline...and go above and beyond what I want.  I don't need permanent crippling.  Or something that drains pp to 0.
A device that say...attaches to the head and shuts down manifesting, but takes so long to attach that it could only be used on a helpless/willing victim and can be removed w/o too much difficulty given time / freed allies would be ideal.

[spacemonkey555]

In the Wheel of time series, they just fed captives a certain tea, harmless for nonpsis, gave psis a bad headache and rendered them incapable of performing psi for awhile. Are there any anti psi drugs or poisons in 3.5?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/universalItems.htm#psionicRestraints

tame http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/brainMole.htm
or tame http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/grayGlutton.htm
or http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/thoughtEater.htm

[Kajhera]

Blindfolding them helps significantly, since you need line of sight for many things.

[phaedrusxy]

Blindfolding them helps significantly, since you need line of sight for many things.

Add a Silence spell plus Dimensional Anchor, and there wouldn't be much they could do. I guess they could summon Astral Constructs till they ran out of PPs or something...

You could also just ready attacks to disrupt their manifesting, if you can detect it somehow (Arcane Sight, etc, if they are suppressing displays).

[CaptRory]

You could come up with something like a collar that hits Spellcasters+Psions with nonlethal Sonic and Electric damage if they try casting a spell/using psionics.

If you're running the game you're free to make your own stuff up.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Astral Construct is his main power, actually.  I did also notice some restraints in XPH that'd do the trick, but 24k for full dampening is still too much.

I'll probably make something up.  There's a whole group devoted to hunting down mages (and psions, through transparency rules) for capture, torture, and re-education, so they really should have come up with something for this.  Ideally not something that's long-term hindering, though.  If they do get captured at some point, I want them to be able to jail break.  Just not too easily... 

[Maat Mons]

Book of Vile Darkness has additional options for bestow curse and greater bestow curse.  One of those options is the following: "The target cannot cast spells, use spell-like abilities, or activate spell completion or spell trigger items."  Transparency should mean psions can't manifest either. 

If I were running this prison, I'd have that in effect on every prisoner.  I'd also utilize the option from the spell itself to reduce an ability score to 1 and have it in effect for both strength and dexterity.  It would be easy to cripple inmates further, but we want them healthy and alert for reeducation. 

[phaedrusxy]

Book of Vile Darkness has additional options for bestow curse and greater bestow curse.  One of those options is the following: "The target cannot cast spells, use spell-like abilities, or activate spell completion or spell trigger items."  Transparency should mean psions can't manifest either. 

If I were running this prison, I'd have that in effect on every prisoner.  I'd also utilize the option from the spell itself to reduce an ability score to 1 and have it in effect for both strength and dexterity.  It would be easy to cripple inmates further, but we want them healthy and alert for reeducation.

Feeblemind should also work, if you can get them to fail a save.

[skydragonknight]

New low-level magic/alchemical item: An Everlasting Popsicle. Basically, prevent a psion from voluntarily removing it from their mouth and they will be unable to manifest anything due to the endless brain-freeze. And with the right composition, the eternally melting liquid will keep them nice and hydrated and provide good nutrition for weeks.

[sjTaylor]

If you're okay with a fair about of ability damage you could use a 1st level Shaper to use minor creation to make a bunch of poison each day. If the prison had one it would be pretty cheap to do, and it would provide a lot of utility to the prison since they could shut down int and wis based reality smashers. The prison could even use prestidigitation to make the poison taste like juice, water, or some other drink.

A major downside would be after they got out though since they'd have to recover from the ability damage before they could cast/manifest again. Other than that it seems like a pretty cheap and reliable way to do it.

Arsenic & Old Lace: The Poison Handbook Has a few poisons that can be created using Psionic Minor Creation that can shut down psions.

And Minor Creation and You, a Small Guide says you can get about 947 doses of poison with psionic minor creation at 1st level, and provides the other information about the power.

Int based:
"Craft DC 15: Id Moss (DMG): DC 14 Ingested, 1d4 Int/2d6 Int"
"Craft DC 20: Vapid Leaf Extract (A&E 37): DC 16, Dazed/2d6 Int."

Int & Wis Based:
"Craft DC 15/None: Striped Toadstool (DMG).  Ingested: DC 11, deals 1 Wis/2d6 Wis and 1d4 Int.  Presumably no craft check necessary for just the raw toadstool."

Wis Based:
"Craft DC 15: Bloodroot (DMG).  Injury: DC 12, deals 0/1d4 Con +1d3 Wis"
"Craft DC 17: Psychotropic Rot (DoTU 94): Ingested: DC 15, deals 1d4 Wis/3d8 Hp."


Cha based: None listed

[Maat Mons]

If they're mentally debilitated the whole time you're indoctrinating them, I don't see the indoctrination sticking when they're thinking clearly again. 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Ok, one at a time...

Feeblemind is a bit too long-lasting and mean, I wouldn't want to use that.  I actually consider it a mini-nuke (compared to the super nuke, Mage's Disjunction) and worthy of a gentleman's agreement to not use.

Using creation powers/spells to make poison is a cheesy interpretation of the rules that I would not tolerate the PCs doing, so I'm not going to do that to them, either.  Also, lots of ability damage would take too long to fix, he'd basically be dead weight during the escape.

The bestow curse option is also quite long-lasting / hard to remove.  And it sounds GROTESQUELY overpowered for a combat spell to just permanently shut off someone's entire casting.  Maybe Greater BC, but that's a bit high level, too.

Thanks for the suggestions, but I'm not liking any of them.... Best so far was the tea one.

I find it kind of disturbing that there's so many options to perma-jib someone yet a simple, not-so-bad "restrain someone who is completely at your mercy (due to being beaten unconscious or caught defensless)" is almost entirely absent from the rules. 

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Successful Charm + Hypno = yes my master.

Cascade Flu (cause disease or limited wish) is dangerous
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm#psionicMaladies

Cerebral Parasites at same link + Psionic Restraints
... would limit a Psion to lower level powers.


homegame? (!)
So there's this major battle going on a cube in Archeron.  Bad Dude has a big meta'd Magic Circle Against Law going.  Psion with a psicrystal, Schism going and a same level Astral Construct, waltzes in for the kill.  Wild Mage pops something (hazy by now).  The dm says something very Chaotic just happened (nat 20 with a Limited Wish).  Guy at the table says Rule Of Threes.  DM thinks and goes:  The schismed part of the psions mind, the psicrystal and the AC merge into one new creature.  Big Bad Chaos Guy makes it's knowledge checks, laughs at the now understood results; and PlaneShifts away with some sort of Div running to keep tabs on the whole thing.  Psion can't -fest 4th level telepathy or metacreativity powers anymore, or ACs, and has permanently lost the psicrystal; effectively retired.  The new creature suffers from a randomly spinning mind among the Schism part, the Psicrystal part, the AC commands(-ish), and nothingness (later protested as not fulfilling the rule of threes).  Too expensive to duplicate.  Creature could shape itself and breed (of course) with almost anything, resulting in a Half-Brain template.  Good times.

[Maat Mons]

All right, lower level and easier to get rid of.  Stick a turbidus leech (Bestiary of Krynn, p72 (original) or p97 (Revised)) on prisoners.  Charm and compulsion effects last forever on someone with a leech attached.  Then cast suggestion on each prisoner twice.  The suggestions are "serve out your prison term peacefully" and "don't mess with the leeches." 

If someone manages to get a leech off, they'll be free from the suggestions in a few hours, and can then rip the leeches of other inmates.  Of course, the leeches would be put in highly visible locations, so the guards would immediately notice if someone was missing his.  Also, since everyone is compelled to leave the leaches be, the only way I can think of to kick this off is for a leech die via some sort of accident or illness. 

[Nunkuruji]

Meldshaper 6 / Witchborn Binder 4 has Mage Shackles

Not flawless, but straight foward as a sort of jailer, if you want to leave some chance of escape.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

  ... and a Witchborn Binder no less.


Psion could say if he had Magic Mantle,
then WB would work on him.

[phaedrusxy]

Meldshaper 6 / Witchborn Binder 4 has Mage Shackles

Not flawless, but straight foward as a sort of jailer, if you want to leave some chance of escape.

This looks like a pretty cool class. I'm surprised I've never heard of it before. Is it kind of bad or something? I don't know enough about incarnum to know.

[linklord231]

Meldshaper 6 / Witchborn Binder 4 has Mage Shackles

Not flawless, but straight foward as a sort of jailer, if you want to leave some chance of escape.

This looks like a pretty cool class. I'm surprised I've never heard of it before. Is it kind of bad or something? I don't know enough about incarnum to know.

It's pretty terrible.  If it were 10/10 meldshaping, it would be OK, but it's only 6/10.  And the anti-caster manacles aren't 100% effective; they allow a DC 10 + essentia + meldshaper level (which you lose 4 of, remember) Caster Level check to still be able to cast.  And you can only have 1 set in effect at a time.  You do get an at-will Dispel Magic, but once again it's based on your meldshaper level and still caps at +10 (and you have to pump essentia into it to even get it that high, since you lose MLs). 

Back to topic, you could knock him out with nonlethal damage, then have a 1HD skeleton come around once an hour with a sap and give him a good bonking. 
Psions are still subject to the Wizard's resting rules - they can't regain power points without 8 hours of rest.  Interrupt them every 4, and they'll only have access to whatever PP they didn't use before being incarcerated.  Perhaps that could be your escape method?

[Nunkuruji]

There are also Halruaan Magehounds, which are mages who hunt mages, though I don't recall if they have any specific class features like shackles.

Thayan Slaver might have something, then again, if you can just Dominate, that lasts a while, if its morally acceptable.

Quite true about the Witchborn Binder deficiencies.

In my forthcoming E6 PrC campaign, all PrCs are full advancement, so they'll be much more effective jailers, which is why I even had it in mind.
Nor do I find 'flawless' methods at a table interesting, the roll of the dice keeps things exciting.

[Eldritch_Lord]

There are also Halruaan Magehounds, which are mages who hunt mages, though I don't recall if they have any specific class features like shackles.

Thayan Slaver might have something, then again, if you can just Dominate, that lasts a while, if its morally acceptable.

The Magehound doesn't really get anything relevant; the best it has is a 1/day antimagic field.  The Slaver can deal Wis damage with Intimidate checks and Str damage with sneak attacks and can make nonlethal sneak attacks with any weapon to keep all the prisoners unconscious and/or paralyzed, but the possible problems with that approach have already been mentioned.