Wish & Tomes/Manuals

[Raineh Daze]

Wish grants an inherent bonus, correct? So do tomes and manuals. But they aren't included in the list of basic modifier types. Thus, my question: is it possible to combine these two for a total +10 to a stat, or is it just a choice of method?

[SolEiji]

The text from Wish

•Grant a creature a +1 inherent bonus to an ability score. Two to five wish spells cast in immediate succession can grant a creature a +2 to +5 inherent bonus to an ability score (two wishes for a +2 inherent bonus, three for a +3 inherent bonus, and so on). Inherent bonuses are instantaneous, so they cannot be dispelled. Note: An inherent bonus may not exceed +5 for a single ability score, and inherent bonuses to a particular ability score do not stack, so only the best one applies.

seems to counter your claim.  Even if Tomes and Wishes weren't "the same thing", the wording there would still cap it at +5.

[Raineh Daze]

Ah, the wording is hidden in Wish: inherent bonuses to a particular ability score do not stack. +5 it is, then*.

*Exceeding +5 isn't important, 2*5 = 10. Stacking matters more.

[Kethrian]

The wording isn't hidden in Wish, it's mentioned there redundantly, along with the Inherent Bonus description in the PHB's glossary.  The stacking rules for bonuses state:

Bonuses of different types always stack. Bonuses that have
identical types don’t stack, except for dodge bonuses and
some circumstance bonuses. Untyped bonuses stack unless
the bonuses come from the same effect.

[Raineh Daze]

The wording isn't hidden in Wish, it's mentioned there redundantly, along with the Inherent Bonus description in the PHB's glossary.  The stacking rules for bonuses state:

Bonuses of different types always stack. Bonuses that have
identical types don’t stack, except for dodge bonuses and
some circumstance bonuses. Untyped bonuses stack unless
the bonuses come from the same effect.

For some reason I couldn't find the stacking rules. I  have a habit of missing the obvious.

[Meiliken]

The wording isn't hidden in Wish, it's mentioned there redundantly, along with the Inherent Bonus description in the PHB's glossary.  The stacking rules for bonuses state:

Bonuses of different types always stack. Bonuses that have
identical types don’t stack, except for dodge bonuses and
some circumstance bonuses. Untyped bonuses stack unless
the bonuses come from the same effect.

Easy fix.  Use the tomes first to give you the inherent bonuses, then use wish and word it specifically to state, "untyped strength increase", and there you go, it stacks.  Wish is fairly broken in that manner.  You could also just say "I wish for a sacred bonus to strength, or a luck bonus, or any other type of bonus" and there you have it, it stacks.  It doesn't have to specifically be inherent, and indeed a tome and a wish are "different sources" so eh, take it with a grain of salt on that one.  Always did think wish was a bit broken.

[oslecamo]

Except that doing that is not one of the listed "safe"  options, and thus you risk your wish being perverted.

[Raineh Daze]

I'm not sure how you'd pervert wish into a literal but undesirable fulfillment of 'more X'.

[oslecamo]

The universe bows down for your wish to 'bore intelligence'. You now have -5 Divine Int!

[Raineh Daze]

The universe bows down for your wish to 'bore intelligence'. You now have -5 Divine Int!

That's neither a literal perversion, nor partial fulfillment.

[Kethrian]

Well, the first thing to do is make sure the player's wish isn't full of metagame verbiage, such as using bonus types.  Make him/her word the wish exactly as the character would, and if there's metagame wording, just have the whole thing fail.  If they do find a way to word it to get a non-inherent bonus to a stat without metagaming, then you can work through said wording for ways to misinterpret it and corrupt the whole thing.

[spacemonkey555]

I'm not sure how you'd pervert wish into a literal but undesirable fulfillment of 'more X'.

'more x' for 1 round rather than permanent, 'more x' as a permanent dispellable effect, promptly dispelled.

If the player asks for an instantaneous non inherent bonus, have it be truly instantaneous, IE expired before the player can regret being a munchkin wasted their wish. Another option is belanced buff/debuff, they get +1 and -1.

Another option, crazy nonstandard wishes are based on the idea of infinite power to produce the reward, the wish isn't a standard balanced, listed effect, it's ANYTHING, which is infinite pre-definition. Use that against them. So... the universe was created by the wizard primeval, with a nearly perfectly worded wish, which bans other wishes in certain circumstances (especially ones that provide bonuses) either as a result of a programming error in clause h874-m (how to handle bonus pay for mercenary work), or because the wizard was a refugee from another reality where wishes weren't so capped, and lived in terror of the idea of wishes to destroy the universe/make gods/etc. No, you can't ever know what the wording of the wish primeval is, you can't even comprehend its existence, clause a003-a (how to prevent the destruction of the universe).


tl:dr: If wishes can do anything, you live in a pocket wish-created universe where certain wishes have been preempted by wish.

[SolEiji]

The universe bows down for your wish to 'bore intelligence'. You now have -5 Divine Int!

That's neither a literal perversion, nor partial fulfillment.

A better result of "I want more intelligence".  A book appears in your hand, on a subject you were previously unaware of.  Reading it makes you aware, and thus you are smarter for it.

Didn't say you wanted a mechanical +1, just that you wanted more intelligence.

Alternative Punchline: The spy you never knew you had returns and reports that the nation of Eijilund is indeed stockpiling cream pies.