Author Topic: Anima-convoker optimization?  (Read 6137 times)

Offline Hics

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Anima-convoker optimization?
« on: November 19, 2011, 11:11:51 AM »
some ideas on optimizig this flavour build?

all 3.5 official, no magazine

human conjurer1/ binder1/ anima mage 4/ malconvoker 8/ anima mage +6

2 flaws admitted, one used to take Bind Vestige, retrained at 2nd to improved binding.

feats needed are just one metamagic (human bonus) prec.apprentice(1 lev. feat) and SF: conjuration (3 lev.). so 5 free.

UA variants for conjurer: augmet summoning and rapid summoning.

suggestions? ideas?

Offline Mooncrow

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Re: Anima-convoker optimization?
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2011, 11:36:50 AM »
Personally, I would drop a level of Malconvoker and pick up a second level of Binder instead - you really want to hit binder level 12, so you can get 6th level vestiges, which include Zceryll.  That's going to be a bigger power boost than those extra 2 HD on calling.

Offline radionausea

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Re: Anima-convoker optimization?
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2011, 11:44:20 AM »
Dammit, I was going to suggest Zceryll!.

The spell Implore from Dragon #336 is good as well. 

Practical Demonkeeping is the best list and guide for Malconvokers I've seen yet - if you haven't already checked it out.



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Offline Unbeliever

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Re: Anima-convoker optimization?
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2011, 11:51:04 AM »
I had a friend who let me reflavor Malconvoker/Zceryll so that they could play nice together.  Although now I think I might just go for a Binder-only version of that build, with Malconvoker advancing binding and using bloodlines to get Z as quick as possible. 

That's a simpler, if a bit weaker, approach to the same build. 

I also kind of like stacking Invisible Spell with summons.  My DM generously ruled that it would make the summon invisible, until it attacked, like the normal Invisibility spell.

Offline radionausea

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Re: Anima-convoker optimization?
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2011, 11:51:32 AM »
Hang on, he can already bind Zceryll.  Improved Binding is necessary in order to enter Anima Mage with one level of Binder so his EBL is 13.
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Offline radionausea

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Re: Anima-convoker optimization?
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2011, 12:02:03 PM »
Augment Summoning - a +4 boost to Str and Con is always useful
Sculpt Spell - You're a conjurer, sculpt the battlefield to your and your summon's advantage
Twin Spell - For when you need even more Voors, use with vestige metamagic
Invisible Spell - for the above mentioned reasons
Cloudy Conjuration.

Persistent Spell for use with vestige metamagic is a bit of a piss-take though.  Lose access to a vestige for 30 seconds each spell in order to make all your spells for the day persistent?
« Last Edit: November 19, 2011, 12:05:11 PM by radionausea »
Something inside me dies when I see the word fallacy applied to ideas held about roleplaying. And a small bit of vomit comes up when I see a character called a 'toon'.

Offline Mooncrow

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Re: Anima-convoker optimization?
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2011, 12:11:48 PM »
Hang on, he can already bind Zceryll.  Improved Binding is necessary in order to enter Anima Mage with one level of Binder so his EBL is 13.

Bah, good catch. 

Offline spacemonkey555

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Re: Anima-convoker optimization?
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2011, 12:46:07 PM »
Zceryll's summon ability is kinda tough to get to SMIX without some sacrifice.

1 level from binder 1, 10 from anima mage, 1 from ipos, and 1 from favored vestige leave you at ebl 13 for a SMVI. You need ebl 18 for SMIX.

Even if your dm lets you use malconvoker's twin/extend on the zceryll summons, you'll just be dropping little low cr turds all over the place. If your gm allows bloodlines, take a major bloodline for +3 ebl, that gets you 2 tiers up on your zceryll summons.

Offline radionausea

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Re: Anima-convoker optimization?
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2011, 01:08:02 PM »
but your summons are better than the Summon Elemental reserve feat so you get a lot of utility out of it without blowing your spell slots, that's worth a lot for a summon focused build
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Offline spacemonkey555

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Re: Anima-convoker optimization?
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2011, 01:33:01 PM »
Yeah, its not worthless, just saying a higher ebl will make zceryll shine, while a low ebl can relegate zceryll summons to gimmick/speedbump status at ecl20. As an example of what I mean, the summon elemental reserve feat gets you a large elemental at best, which is the best elemental you can get from zceryll at ebl 13. One more binder level upgrades that to a huge elemental, and 2 more upgrades you again to greater elementals. Greater elementals have about 3x the hp of large elementals. Much better speedbumps, and they're far more likely to hit something in combat.

Offline Mooncrow

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Re: Anima-convoker optimization?
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2011, 01:49:44 PM »
Unfortunately, it's a tricky balancing act to raise EBL and still keep 9th level spells.  You already lose one from Binder 1, and another from Malconvoker. 

Offline Amechra

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Re: Anima-convoker optimization?
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2011, 02:03:30 PM »
Dragon Compendium is DnD 3.5 official material, so it is valid for this; there is a feat in there where, if you go ahead and perform a ritual for ?6? hours, all your summons get full HP and Share Spells slapped onto them.

Alternatively, Imbued Summons, which gives your summons any 3rd level or below buff you feel like when you summon them.

Too bad Shadowcaster looks incompatible with what you are trying, or else you could Shadow Miracle yourself a Shapechange onto one of your summons.
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Offline radionausea

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Re: Anima-convoker optimization?
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2011, 02:27:22 PM »
Yeah, its not worthless, just saying a higher ebl will make zceryll shine, while a low ebl can relegate zceryll summons to gimmick/speedbump status at ecl20. As an example of what I mean, the summon elemental reserve feat gets you a large elemental at best, which is the best elemental you can get from zceryll at ebl 13. One more binder level upgrades that to a huge elemental, and 2 more upgrades you again to greater elementals. Greater elementals have about 3x the hp of large elementals. Much better speedbumps, and they're far more likely to hit something in combat.

Yeah, I just see it as having a near limitless amount of summons, especially if you're allowed to customise your summons list ala Practical Demonkeeping.  There are some pretty good choices that are viable for their SLA even limited to SMVI.  And that's as a bonus on your normal casting and Malconvoker summoning.  It's a build I've played (minus qualifying at 2nd level because my DM didn't allow Precocious Apprentice to work) and I was really glad for Zceryll's utility functions. 
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Offline Hics

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Re: Anima-convoker optimization?
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2011, 08:09:21 PM »
thank you all for suggestions.
another info: sorry but no compendium allowed, and DM hate bloodlines.

build up to now

precocious apprentice(Hb), bind vestige(H1, retrained @ 2nd for improved binding), extend spell (F1), Invisible spell (F2), augment summoning(Wiz ACF), SF: conjuration (3), sculpt spell (6), XXX (9), XXX (12), XXX (15), XXX (18)

item familiar (circlet of persuasion?), couldy conjuration, twin spell are my options for now.
I don't want to lose more arcane spellcasting, so no smIX from Zceryll are off the game for now.
still a good option, though.

Offline radionausea

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Re: Anima-convoker optimization?
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2011, 05:56:40 AM »
Are you allowed to completely customise your summon monster list?

If not then here is a list of legal summons that you can either add to your list or swap out for others: Legal Summons

You can also take the Fiendish Summoning Specialist feat to add a monster of your choice to each SM spell.
Something inside me dies when I see the word fallacy applied to ideas held about roleplaying. And a small bit of vomit comes up when I see a character called a 'toon'.