Author Topic: Questions about Burrowing and Usable Tunnels  (Read 3185 times)

Offline LudicSavant

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 40
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Questions about Burrowing and Usable Tunnels
« on: June 07, 2014, 11:20:42 PM »
What exactly happens when a burrowing creature that leaves behind usable tunnels surfaces beneath you (creating a usable tunnel in that square)?  Do you fall into a pit or what?

It seems like it would be a fairly obvious topic to cover, and yet I can't seem to find any clarification on the issue in the Monster Manual or Rules Compendium.  The entry for the Umber Hulk (which can leave behind usable tunnels) says that it uses its ability to create deadfalls and pitfalls.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2014, 11:29:49 PM by LudicSavant »

Offline FlaminCows

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 600
  • Push that button. Doo eeet.
    • View Profile
Re: Questions about Burrowing and Usable Tunnels
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2014, 11:49:29 PM »
It would depend on the strength of the material and how deep below the tunnel was dug. They did not give clarification because that is too complicated for game rules, and the DM will have to judge the situation individually.

Offline ketaro

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4243
  • I'm always new!
    • View Profile
Re: Questions about Burrowing and Usable Tunnels
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2014, 11:55:24 PM »
Doesn't seem very complicated. It's just a pit trap. The DMG has pit traps.

Offline LudicSavant

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 40
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Questions about Burrowing and Usable Tunnels
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2014, 12:37:18 AM »
Doesn't seem very complicated. It's just a pit trap. The DMG has pit traps.

In that case, what's the Reflex save?  Those vary between pit traps, don't they?

Offline ketaro

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4243
  • I'm always new!
    • View Profile
Re: Questions about Burrowing and Usable Tunnels
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2014, 12:50:23 AM »
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Traps

Most of the Pit Traps seem to have a DC 20 Reflex save.

Mind you, as the burrower would be right under the falling character, he'd probably also need a save or fall with the victim. 

Offline linklord231

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3352
  • The dice are trying to kill me
    • View Profile
Re: Questions about Burrowing and Usable Tunnels
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2014, 03:12:31 AM »
Normally, you couldn't do this.  It would require moving through an enemy-occupied square, which is not allowed (unless you're tumbling, which is... odd, in this situation).
I'm not arguing, I'm explaining why I'm right.

Offline LudicSavant

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 40
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Questions about Burrowing and Usable Tunnels
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2014, 05:16:18 AM »
Normally, you couldn't do this.  It would require moving through an enemy-occupied square, which is not allowed (unless you're tumbling, which is... odd, in this situation).

Why would you need to move through an enemy occupied square?  Just have that umber hulk move into the square *under* them and bam, 10x10 pit created immediately under you.

Offline kitep

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1948
  • Lookout World!
    • View Profile
Re: Questions about Burrowing and Usable Tunnels
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2014, 10:30:55 AM »
I don't think you'll find any hard and fast rules to cover this, so I'd probably go with

1) The target feels the earth start to move under him and easily stops himself from falling in

2) The burrower can try to avoid (1), by using move silently to stealthily burrow under the target.  Reflex DC = move silently roll.  I might adjust this after some careful thought or playtesting.  The burrower needs to move at half speed to move silently, or do one of the things that allows you to move full speed silently.

3) If the burrower end his turn under the target, the target cannot fall in because the burrower is occupying that space.  Instead the target is prone in that square.  If the target does not end his movement directly below, then he provokes an AOO for moving through threatened area, though I'd give a 50% miss chance for concealment, and no AOO if the target fails his reflex save.

4) This all assumes a medium burrower.  I'd have to think more for different sizes.

Good luck!



Offline awaken_D_M_golem

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7639
  • classique style , invisible tail
    • View Profile
Re: Questions about Burrowing and Usable Tunnels
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2014, 04:42:34 PM »
"Pit Trap" is only approximate.
Pit = yes , Trap = maybe , "Pit Trap" = not really.
Xorn's aren't trapmakers.
Even if what they make might be in the category of "trap".
However I don't know what else it could be.  I guess I'm just grousing.

d20srd has Cave Ins And Collapses as a CR8.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/dungeons.htm#caveInsAndCollapsesCr8
... and Avalanches as a CR7.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/wilderness.htm#avalanchesCr7

Climb, Jump and Tumble could effect these too.
Monk falling damage negation, etc ...

4e might be hackable for this.  It has a smidge
more stuff, which I'm familiar with only because
the Umber Shadow Hulk is roxxors!!l3t.  (wtf)
Your codpiece is a mimic.