Manuever: Sudden Leap Abuse

[linklord231]

warlocks overpowered??? never thought Ide hear that

You're new to this whole "satire" thing, aren't you.

[SorO_Lost]

Well they can take Obtain Familiar...

[Emanresu]

has anybody been in a campaign where the DM didnt target a familiar?  If they do manage to survive at what level would someone say "holy chit thats bitchen I didnt know you could do that"

[SorO_Lost]

Familiars are the Schrodinger's cat of D&D, you never know if they are alive or dead until someone remembers they are supposed to have one.

[wotmaniac]

Up until recently, I avoided ToB simply because I didn't want to have to learn yet another mini-game/resource mechanic.  However, I've recently decided to crack it open, and ..... WHAT THE HELL TOOK ME SO LONG?!  This thing is made of liquid awesome!

That being said jump sucks!

Mr Thri-kreen would like a word with you.   

I think I just had a revelation about why people have this misconception about the "fluff" of ToB being cartoony or anime or Japanese or whatever.  We've been ruined by years upon years of King Arthur movies with bad fight choreography.

If your approach to fighting in the era D&D is modeled after boils down to "I charge in and swing my _____ at it," then you will die very, very young.  There is more nuance and subtlety to a fight than that, and ToB is the first 3e sourcebook ever that actually successfully reflects that with game options that aren't complete and utter shit.

If you want to see why you need ToB in your campaign, go watch Gladiator or something.  Not that you should need a reason to watch Gladiator, but you have one, now!

I've been thinking lately about Wheel of Time; specifically the way the various sword styles, stances, and maneuvers are described (mostly in relation to Lan). 
And then I juxtaposed that against the ToB. 
And I can't help but to notice how well the two concepts mesh.  ToB seems like it was intentionally written/designed with the expressed intent of practically forcing players to be all cinematically descriptive and shit when they render battle upon the baddies' heads.
Fuck what it does mechanically -- the player-described narrative that it encourages is almost worth the price of the book by itself. (oh yeah, and the mechanics are pretty cool as well).

[wotmaniac]

[...], you never know if they are alive or dead [...]

There's a test for that:

(click to show/hide)

[Emanresu]

oh sure if your into role playing bugs...would you gents care for another round of ales? "click click rattle pop click" my exoskeletor friend here wants to know if you have any pureed fermented roach guts available?

[SorO_Lost]

Roaches eat & drink anything.

And what you're missing is only one guy is a bug, the other is an undead rotting carcass of interspecies screwing (helf) currently hitting on and succeeding with the ladies, another is a mechanical steel/adamantine dragon-like biped hovering next to the fire place and the last is a 2ft tall shadow skipping from the horizontal support beams in the rafters (DC 120 spot to see).

Adventurers are not bound by petting concepts like your bugism.

[Emanresu]

I think our most outlandish soiree of freaks (non traditional sentients) from all different campaigns over years include
2 x 1/2 fiend
1 x 1/2 celestial
1 x centaur
3 x Flind
few catfolk
multiple whisper gnomes & Drow
1 x stonechild
2 x Doppelganger
1 x the dragon prestige class where you turn into a half bred
1 x eberron golem

there is probably a few more, not many, just 2 or 3 more that have escaped me...but this is 4 to 6 players gaming 2, 3 sometimes 4 game nights a month for 2 decades! So we dont go to crazy

[SorO_Lost]

Heh, terrible thing is I've made a character of each.

Necropoliton Helf Sorcerer, Dark Whisper Gnome Swordsage, and a PbP-based Proto-Dragonborn Warforged Magewright for the Low Tier game. Heck, I was going to be an anthropomorphic bat and a custom ninja class (it's batman!) in one of Ols's games.

And yet, those are not the oddest characters I've seen. At least they look like a humanoid with wings, wait until you have to start counting halves & limbs.

[snakeman830]

wait until you have to start counting halves & limbs.

Because D&D math says that 1/2+1/2+1/2+1/2+1/2=1

Granted, that would be a terrible character due to the LA, but still...

[SorO_Lost]

Because D&D math says that 1/2+1/2+1/2+1/2+1/2=1

Come to think of it, they always round down. Each added 1/2 counts as 0.

[zook1shoe]

So you're a zero-Black Dragon/zero-Elf ?

[Kuroimaken]

I think you guys have completely forgotten one of the most important things about Jump.

Namely that at no point in the skill description does it say you have to start it from a solid foothold.

Congratulations, 3.5, you just invented tabletop RPG double-jumping.

[zook1shoe]

Long Jump mentions landing on your feet, but other than that, I dont see anything about 'ground' or 'floor' in a glance at SRD and RC

[linklord231]

I think you guys have completely forgotten one of the most important things about Jump.

Namely that at no point in the skill description does it say you have to start it from a solid foothold.

Congratulations, 3.5, you just invented tabletop RPG double-jumping.

I used this once in a game to good effect.  What's that, a 30 foot wall?  JUMP!

[vaz]

Long Jump mentions landing on your feet, but other than that, I dont see anything about 'ground' or 'floor' in a glance at SRD and RC

The climb rules specify catching a handhold on a wall IIRC.

[SorO_Lost]

There is a point to be made, it's so stupid they didn't care to waste text on it.

Kind of like it's not written that your character needs to poop, or sex to reproduce, or men cannot have babies (except changlings), and so on. To jump you need a means to propel your self with enough momentum that you can stop your method of locomotion and still continue on for some time. Be it using your feet to kick off a near-solid object with significantly more mass than you, fins shoving a huge amount of fluid aside or rockets shooting flames in a single direction.

It was never intended for you to make multiple Jump checks in the air granting you a Fly speed, you'll just have to settle for that.

[Kuroimaken]

You WOULD expect it to be the case, yes.

However, all we see is "it ain't written so it doesn't say you can't do it".

Let the mundanes have that much at least.

[SorO_Lost]

However, all we see is "it ain't written so it doesn't say you can't do it".

As long as you know the rules, the players need be concerned only with their characters and how they react to what happens to them in the game. Have players tell you what they want their characters to do, and translate that into game terms for them. Teach them how the rules work when they need to learn them, on a case by case basis. For example, if the player of a wizard wants to cast a spell or the player of a fighter wants to attack, the player tells you what the character is attempting. Then you tell the player which modifier or modifiers to add to the roll of a d20, and what happens as a result. After a few times, the player will know what to do without asking.

Everything must be translated into what the Rules do say. Including if you can jump off dirt or air.

And jumping around in the air is best translated to a flight.
Does the Character in question have a Fly Speed?
No?
The the Rules do say something on the topic don't they?