OOC and discussion

[Sohala]

All dwarves and all of them can brew.

[Frogman55]

Oooh, flaws. I thought I had read in one of the adds that he didn't like them.

Basically, while he's just a crusader now, I'm planning on putting together a debuffer build that I've designed before (Curse + Dark Companion + Intimidation + Entangling exhalation = Win. Or lose, depending on your perspective). After that, crusader is pretty effective with almost any feat combination.

I'm tempted to combine him with a odd-duck build I put together once, built around the Pincer Staff (from one of the underdark books, I don't recall precisely which at the moment). It's a tad feat intensive - you need an exotic proficiency, and really aught to have some grapple feats too. But grappling at reach can be really, really fun; and if grappling isn't reasonable then the crusader is more than capable of just thwacking things.

I'm not planning on JPM, not really. I am looking at some of elf sub-races though, because Eternal Blade is cool.

[Endarire]

Consider Savage Drow for it is cool.

Alternatively, don't worry about going Eternal Blade on your first character.  The Savage Aasimar linked to in that Drow article is also spiffy for 0 LA.

[Frogman55]

Actually, wild elf is a good fit. Given that I'm swapping for Dragonborn once I've got the cash, I'm really only caring about the stat adjustments and type, at this point. I'd hate to waste time with a savage progression when I'm just going to swap out everything.

Anyways, I've got a character up and ready to go. I forget how tight 100gp is at first level. I've got 3 gp left over and very little mundane equipment other than food and light. Oh well, we can go kill some dwarves.

Is it safe to assume that Scales is in the center of your frontline, between those two mercs? It appears that Dither doesn't mind hand-waved entrances, especially given that there hasn't been any fighting yet.

A question for Dither, though: How do you feel about refluffling and fluff-based mechanics? I am intending to move into Dragonborn, but I don't know if Bahamut is a thing here, or if the alignment requirements are strict (can I fall, the way DBs usually can? What if he's a Tiamat-powered Dragonborn - do those even exist?). I've got to walk a tightrope with this guy, as he can't fall to evil or rise to good without losing powers.

It would be considerably easier if I could run a lawful evil dragonborn of Tiamat (or equivalent dragon-goddess). If not, I'll just have to grab a Phylactery of Faithfulness as soon as possible.

[phaedrusxy]

Half-elves also count as elves, and avoid the con penalty. If you're thinking of dipping bard, you could also get the Soothing Voice ACF which is pretty nice. (I haven't followed the whole conversation, so I don't know how apt that is).

[Frogman55]

I'm going to go with Wild Elf - +2 Str, -2 Int. I'm going to miss that skill point, but there are worse things. Also, ACFs are just about pointless for any but the first encounter or two.

BTW, I finally got around to reading Endarire's Martial Adepts rework. I mostly like it - getting rid of alignment restrictions and healing types with Devoted Spirit is cool, and the new discipline would be a great fit with my concept. If Dither is ok with it, I'll use them; I won't be heartbroken if you want me to stick to pure TOB though.

[dither]

A question for Dither, though: How do you feel about refluffling and fluff-based mechanics? I am intending to move into Dragonborn, but I don't know if Bahamut is a thing here, or if the alignment requirements are strict (can I fall, the way DBs usually can? What if he's a Tiamat-powered Dragonborn - do those even exist?). I've got to walk a tightrope with this guy, as he can't fall to evil or rise to good without losing powers.

If you have to ask, assume it works as-written. That includes. Every. Single. Lame-ass. Rule. From multi-classing penalties to alignment restrictions. For the simple reason that you should assume that everything works the way it's written until ruled otherwise. And I don't like making rulings.

Seriously, if the rules work as-written then everyone knows exactly what to expect. Build your characters around the rules, rather than around the exceptions or loopholes. Honestly, the only surprises should be the results of the dice rolls.

The more badass and broken you make your characters, the more badass and broken I have to make the encounters. And that is an arms race the players will always lose to the GM.

You have no idea how much time I spent re-reading bloody spell-trigger items. Do not test me.

*grumble* I might as well change my title to "grumpy GM."

edit: Regarding Bahamut and the alignment thing, it seems to me that "Bahamut redeems" and offers creatures the opportunity to be reborn as dragons. Considering Tiamat is evil and has legions of spawn, I don't think she's really interested in re-birthing creatures the same way. She's just as soon have Warlocks or Sorcerers or evil Favored Souls. Or you know, feed you to her pets.

Why would you want to worship Tiamat anyway? Seriously.

--Dither

[Frogman55]

A question for Dither, though: How do you feel about refluffling and fluff-based mechanics? I am intending to move into Dragonborn, but I don't know if Bahamut is a thing here, or if the alignment requirements are strict (can I fall, the way DBs usually can? What if he's a Tiamat-powered Dragonborn - do those even exist?). I've got to walk a tightrope with this guy, as he can't fall to evil or rise to good without losing powers.

If you have to ask, assume it works as-written. That includes. Every. Single. Lame-ass. Rule. From multi-classing penalties to alignment restrictions. For the simple reason that you should assume that everything works the way it's written until ruled otherwise. And I don't like making rulings.

Seriously, if the rules work as-written then everyone knows exactly what to expect. Build your characters around the rules, rather than around the exceptions or loopholes. Honestly, the only surprises should be the results of the dice rolls.

The more badass and broken you make your characters, the more badass and broken I have to make the encounters. And that is an arms race the players will always lose to the GM.

You have no idea how much time I spent re-reading bloody spell-trigger items. Do not test me.

*grumble* I might as well change my title to "grumpy GM."

edit: Regarding Bahamut and the alignment thing, it seems to me that "Bahamut redeems" and offers creatures the opportunity to be reborn as dragons. Considering Tiamat is evil and has legions of spawn, I don't think she's really interested in re-birthing creatures the same way. She's just as soon have Warlocks or Sorcerers or evil Favored Souls. Or you know, feed you to her pets.

Why would you want to worship Tiamat anyway? Seriously.

--Dither

Fair enough.  Bahamut's redemption angle gives an interesting hook for my character, just so long as I never fall to redemption.  That being said then, I believe I'm good to go.

[Endarire]

Dragonborn can be any non-evil alignment and need not worship Bahamut.  A LN or CN Dragonborn Crusader/Hexblade is fine.

Frogman: Are you sure you want to take the Inattentative flaw?  -4 on Spot and Listen checks is pretty steep.  Mind you, we do have a bunch of others around who may be able to notice the stuff instead.  I'm not sure what flaw you would take instead.

How do you feel about Combat Reflexes?  It lets you make extra AoO per round equal to your DEX bonus (1 in this case), and lets you make AoO while flat-footed.  It works well with your reach weapon.

I see the feat 'Improved Unarmed Attack,' but do you mean Improved Unarmed Strike?  You don't need this feat to avoid AoO when you attack with gauntlets.

Your AC doesn't include your Scale Mail armor bonus to AC.  (Scale Mail has an armor check penalty of -4, slows you to 20', and gives +4 armor AC.)

For your pincer staff, how do grapple checks work?

Also, which Crusader version are you using?

Finally, your character sheet has a blank entry for HP.  Make a note of how much damage you currently have delayed.

[dither]

Dragonborn can be any non-evil alignment and need not worship Bahamut.  A LN or CN Dragonborn Crusader/Hexblade is fine.

That aside, the stated purpose of the dragonborn is to protect the world against the spawn of Tiamat.

...
And now for something completely different!

(Trigger warning! Had a lousy night at the game table.)

<soapbox>

(click to show/hide)

There are 133 possible characters in the PHB alone (77 if you don't count Specialist Wizards), not counting alignments, deities, domains, weapons and gear, spell selection, feats, and skills. When you add to that a variable number of ability score permutations and cross-class skill combinations, there are thousands and thousands of possibilities. Then there are the subraces in the Monster Manual. *explodes*

When you add to that the base classes from the Complete series (at least 12) and new races from the Races series (...not counting), and zillions of other options like variant class features -- even discounting the unplayable stuff like Samurai and Truenamer -- there are more character options than you could use in a lifetime.

Let me just say this -- you probably won't play a hundred characters this year. Or in ten years. Probably not. I once had a guy roll up 3 characters in one night. That was a lot, and it was exceptional. He was unlucky and performed a heroic sacrifice in the same night. If you played once a week for a year and rolled up 3 characters a night, you might play 150 characters. But you'd probably leave if a GM killed 3 of your PCs per week.

Even one new character per week is a lot. That'd be 50 characters per year.

But you aren't going to play a new character every week. You'll probably play a handful of characters in a year. You might even play virtually identical builds because it turns out you really like half-elf warlocks or something. They might have different names. They might be Bob 1 and Bob 2.

If you're asking me to make exceptions so you can play some weird combination of X and Y that isn't supported by the text, I weep for you.

Sometimes the rules leave something out, like how to replace a psicrystal. That's an oversight. That requires ruling.

If you're asking me to make special exceptions like purchasing rare or bizarre magic items as part of starting equipment then you're doing something wrong.

"But I want a Weapon of Legacy as part of my character!"

Not at level one. The rules put minimum level requirements on using those things in the Weapons of Legacy book.

You can't start with one. You can get one later. I'm not saying "no," I'm saying "not right now."

What you're saying to me is that you don't have a character without an exception to the rules.

What you're saying to me is that of the thousands upon thousands of possible characters you could have, you don't want any of them. You want something "special." You want me to make an exception for your character. Because oh, this character is special. This character is somehow better than the hundreds of other characters I've seen in the last ten years of players asking me to make special exceptions for them.

It isn't creative. It isn't edgy. It's indicative of a weak imagination. Symptomatic of a sense of entitlement.

"But I want to do something not covered by the rules!"

What you're really saying is that you aren't creative enough to do something within the rules.

Besides, you're probably going to lose a couple characters to accidents or simple attrition before you can make good on a character's elaborate background anyway, so it will all have been a wasted exercise. Get in and play, and we'll figure it out from there. Everyone should know how to build chump characters.

</soapbox>

--Dither

[dither]

Phew. Last night sucked.

Work finally has the network running. Somehow the cable leading to my PC got switched into a bad/degraded port, so even after the entire rest of the company was back up and running, my system was sluggish for days.

The fix turned out to be as simple as moving the cable to a fresh port. *sigh*

Seriously, IT guys are great but what were they thinking moving stuff around? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. *shakes head*


--Dither

[Frogman55]

I mostly agree with you, Dither. Both about IT guys with odd priorities and about the character building.

I'd like to add one caveat to your soapbox, however: Sometimes it isn't about lack of imagination, entitlement or edgy creativeness. It can be about simple ease.

You could have exactly the one character that you have in mind by dropping a PrC requirement, or you could dig through dozens of dips to manage what you want.

Of course, I believe that is more true in RL games, where you [theoretically] have better knowledge of your players than here in PbP.




Anyways......

May I jump into the Goldburn game? If we move quickly we can just pretend I was standing quietly with the hirelings. It's also entirely possible I just failed that save against the sleep. (I actually have a will penalty at the moment.  )

[dither]

May I jump into the Goldburn game? If we move quickly we can just pretend I was standing quietly with the hirelings. It's also entirely possible I just failed that save against the sleep. (I actually have a will penalty at the moment.  )

By all means.


--Dither

[dither]

I just gotta say, the players at my table can act hella entitled and it bugs the crap out of me.

Maybe not all of them and not all at the same time, but none of them are immune.

I ranted and raved at them a couple weeks back -- and I probably confused them with what I explained as wanting from a game.

It really didn't help that the GM was a newb and a couple players were taking advantage of his inexperience.

But it's like... "No, guys. Just no. Just play the game. Play the game in front of you. Don't play me, play the effing game."

It's like everyone grew up playing Risk and Monopoly and got used to screwing each other over.

And a cooperative game like D&D comes along and everyone just loses their minds.

"What do you mean this game isn't about amassing every possible advantage and using it to annihilate everyone else at the table? I thought you said this was a fun game."

And I just... stand there, shuddering, with my face in my hands. And I weep. ...In my head, of course. :/


--Dither

[Endarire]

Everyone: To avoid the 'this roll has been tampered with' error message, I recommend writing out your post first in another program like Word, Notepad, or Wordpad then pasting it into the window, board code and all.

[phaedrusxy]

Everyone: To avoid the 'this roll has been tampered with' error message, I recommend writing out your post first in another program like Word, Notepad, or Wordpad then pasting it into the window, board code and all.

Or we could make a thread devoted to just dice rolls, and link back to our posts there in the main thread. That's what a lot of other games on this forum do.

[dither]

Or we could make a thread devoted to just dice rolls, and link back to our posts there in the main thread.

At this point, that makes a lot of sense. Everyone would know exactly where to look for them.


--Dither

[Endarire]

Have we officially entered combat mode?  Seymour's initial impression was the dwarf mining team turned hostile.

[phaedrusxy]

Have we officially entered combat mode?  Seymour's initial impression was the dwarf mining team turned hostile.

They cast a Sleep spell at the bulk of the party, so I'd say yes.

[Frogman55]

We also rolled initiative, which also seems like a good indication.