Wizard/Divine build?

[Delicate Swarm]

I'm playing in my first 5e campaign soon, and we are translating our 4e characters over.  Now, my char was a Wizard/Invoker hybrid, the idea being he is basically a Mystic Theurge. 

I'm new to this system so its difficult, but I want to try and make it work.  I'm not tied down to anything in particular, just a Divine/Arcane(preferably wizard) hybrid, possibly a Conjuration specialist.

We start at Lv 9.  I was thinking something like Wizard 3/Cleric 6.  Druid would maybe work.  I still have to check out all the options.

Any suggestions?

[Nunkuruji]

Familiarize yourself with the multiclass rules in chapter6 of the phb.

Some of the net is:
you need to meet the multiclass stat prereqs
your 1st level class will determine some important things like proficiencies
you would get full spell slot progression
you would be able to prepare your spell lists of a level dependent on the level of each individual class, but you could use higher level spell slots to cast lower level spells

[TenaciousJ]

What do you want to get out of each side of your casting?  Cleric is fairly functional without maximized Wisdom if you focus on spells without an attack roll or a DC.  Sorcerer is pretty good on the arcane side because you can apply metamagic to your divine spells too.  When you're choosing how to separate your class levels, the considerations you want to make are for class features like Arcane Tradition (Wizard 2, 6, 10, and 14) and maximum spell level you can prepare.  Wizard 3 will only prepare up to 2nd level spells while Cleric 6 prepares up to level 3, though you would have up to 5th level slots to elevate spells up to.

[sambojin]

Yeah, there's no real +CL or learn multiple class's spell mechanics on lvl up in 5th yet, so taking a few levels of sorcerer to mess around with castable slots might be worthwhile. You won't be able to cast the big spells if you want a balanced mix, but lots of little ones is doable.

I'd actually go with a lopsided build. Sorceror 17/Cleric 3, or vica versa, so you get a bit of everything, but still keep lvl 9 spells. The further you go from this, the worse it gets on losing available spell levels. The example gives you plenty of sorcery points to meta things or create spell slots for your cleric side as well. Clerics unfortunately don't exactly get the finest spell list in the land...

Druids however do.

Another good build is Druid (Moon) 15/ Sorcerer 5. You get level 8 Druid spells, CR 5 shape change, level 3 Sorcerer spells, 5 sorcery points and a couple of metamagic options. Most decent sorcerer kabooms come at lvl 3, so you're laughing. This sort of build gives you a bit of everything and lots of some things, and you can tailor it on the fly as well. Your cake, eat at will.

If you really want a more magic based character, just sub in Druid (Land) instead. 8 extra spell slot levels per rest is pretty significant, you can use them to fuel your sorcerer spells, and you get a few bonus spells to let you feel more sorcerer'y. Grassland, Mountain or Forest are all nice for an arcanish feel for your character, while still being firmly divine as well. Remember that you can still wildshape into CR1 flyers/utility creatures a couple of times per rest, so some utility spells off the sorcerer list have way lower ratings when you can just wildshape or land circle mimic them. Climbing, strength, dexterity, flying, movement, swimming, darkvision, blindsight, burrowing and melee combat are all pretty firmly covered by wildshape. Add in Grassland's invisibility and divination, or (call) lightning and movement spells, and you probably won't realize you're only a level 5 sorceror spell-wise at all. Remember that apes have hands, so you can still do plenty of stuff with strength 16/Dex 14 when you need to. And remember that Conjure Animals gives you plenty of friends to party with, even when you're not partying with your party. It is one of the best spells in the game for utility, but covers combat nicely as well.

Hopefully EE gives us some more beasts to play with, just for more shenanigans.

Another hidden benefit of Druids (like they needed more) is stat independency. Once you've got your Wisdom maxed, you can call it a day on attribute gains if you want. There's a wildshape form for any other stats you need, except intelligence and charisma. Which means you can choose a couple of feats if you want them on your leveling path instead of raising stats like everyone else.

So for super-magicky, you can pick up Magical Initiate and Dragon Marks for any of those tiny little spells or cantrips that you really miss, but just can't get otherwise. Or a utility feat. Or a combat feat. Whatever.

Aarakocra also make really good druids. So do Variant Humans. So do normal Humans. All the best races seem to be custom designed to make the best class even better. The whole darkvision thing is irrelevant to you.

Druids really are good.

[Delicate Swarm]

Well, a lot to think about.  To be honest, I was going more towards Conjuration. 

I'm kind of torn.  The Wizard capstones seem like the best Conjuration abilities.  Since we start at 9, I'm tempted to go pure wizard until 10 to get the Focused Conjuration ability, then go Divine afterward.  I assume Druid is better for Conjuring?

Maybe work towards Wizard 14/Druid 6.

[TenaciousJ]

Conjure Animals is pretty fantastic with Conjurer abilities.

[sambojin]

I tend to find druids essentially are conjurers, but they can also conjure themselves into different forms whenever they want. It's usually more useful to be able to do both, and they've got plenty of utility spells, BFC or blasting if you want it. Just as wizardy as wizards in the spell list and slot recovery department, but with extra bonus polymorphs for good measure.

I will admit that a high level Conjure Animals (Rot Grubs) with the conjurer lvl 14 bonus would be a terrifying way to die though.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

5e multiclassing doesn't work much like 3e Gestalt or 4e Hybrids.
Say you had a 3e Wizard 10 / Cleric 10.  5e would give you that,
but the caster levels would stack for purposes of Spell Slots.

However, 5e Cantrips do scale and Rituals can be a giant hack
of whatever list looks good.  Bards can pick the most off list spells.
Something like a Lore Bard 18 / Warlock 2.
Cleric 17 or 18 / Warlock 3 or 2 , obviously more Divine focused.
Cleric 1 / Wizard X ... is a known preferred build.
If you don't get some Wizard or Warlock, you'd probably want
to take the Rituals feat, to get all of those goodies that way.

Druid 2 / Conj Wiz 14 / Druid +4 ... yeah that's functional.
Especially if you can find Scrolls of the higher level Druid spells.
The conj wiz 14 ability is rather delicious or overwhelming.
You could save that for a level 20 trick all by itself.
Druid 2 / Conj Wiz 10 / Druid +4 / Wiz +4.
Loses out on  the 8s and 9s based shenanigans, but hey.

[sambojin]

You want Warlock 3 for Book pact, Book of Secrets boon, if you want to slowly gather all the rituals for a bigger spell list.

Wizard (Conjurer) 15/ Druid (Land) 5 isn't horrible to emulate a Theurge. Pretty damn conjurer'y, Conjurer's lvl 14 HP boon, level 8 wizard spells (and a book to gather them in, so all the spells), a bit of polymorphing, some extra spells for fun, and extra slot recovery to fuel it.

Bigger summons, lots of them, heaps of slots to do it with.

I still think the Druid (Land) 15/ Sorcerer (whatever) 5 is a hell of a lot better and more of a versatile character to run with. It's up to you to pick the spells and RP it as a conjurer. You can't do everything, but you can do a heap of what you do, which is lots of things. Super-lot'sa-Arcane/Divine. Which sort of is Mystic Theurge in 5th. Either build does it pretty well though.

But never underestimate the Font of Magic + slot recovery. Unbelievably versatile, with metamagic to boot.

[sambojin]

For a lvl 9 build, I'd go:

Druid (Land, Grasslands) 6, Sorceror (Dragon) 3. In that order.

Some wizard spells, some slot recovery, some polymorph self, then the blasting or utility spells come online to back it. Plus that beautiful, beautiful Font. 3 lvls of spell slot recovery per short rest, burn slots for bigger/smaller spells or metamagic at will. Plenty of goodness. All at your starting level.

Then decide if you want to level sorcerer a bit for more wizard stuff, or druid for more wizard and druid stuff. Kind of good either way.

I'd level Druid for bigger spells to lvl 8 or 9 (no restrictions on CR1 wildshapes, 4-5 slot recovery), then bring more sorcerer or go all-out on druid for a bit. It's hard to say what sorceror gives you after 3, but it gives you at-will-slot wizard spells and sorcery points, so that's nice.

[sambojin]

Triple post, but whatever.....

In 5th edition, EVERY spellcasting class is a Mystic Theurge. You might miss out on being able to learn the higher level spells, but the lower level ones can still be boosted with the slots you have. Fireball is a level 3 spell. You can still cast it with a level 9 slot, with extra damage for doing so, if you have a level 9 slot.

But if you've multiclassed so that you never learn level 9 spells, you'll never be able to cast wish or foresight or anything like that. Too bad, so sad.

So there's an x 17/x 3 breakdown, or an x 15/x 5 breakdown for casters. It keeps your primary spell levels high, with lvl 2 or 3 spells for the secondary class. After that it's all about class features.

It'd have to be a damn good class feature for a x 14/x 6 caster build, just due to the loss of level 8 spells. But it's fine for melee or skill monkeys. However, there's heaps of good class features at lvl 3, so a x 14/x 3/x 3 build is perfectly acceptable for casters, especially if 2 of the classes have the same stat requirement for multiclassing.

Then there's the 12/4/4 leveling, designed to minimize stat/feat loss while just pipping in some good class features. But they have to be good, and this isn't for casters.

Then there's the 11/5/3 build, for skill monkeys with class features and magic.

5th edition multiclassing is an amazing playground of stuff. The openness as well as the constraints make it far better in many ways than most other editions.

But yeah. Mystic Theurge? Do what you want. In a way, all combo caster builds are mystic theurges now. Have fun!

[Delicate Swarm]

Well, I have to say Druid is sounding pretty good now.   I'm definitely  considering that now.  Out of interest do you think Druid/Sorcerer is strictly better than Pure Druid?  I'd probably do Arcane/Divine either way, but Druid 17/Sorcerer 3 just seems better to me.  You still get Druid 9s and some metamagic added in.

If I understand correctly you get one feat.  Then to get more you have to replace your Ability score increases?  So I can have multiple feats?

Is this worth it?  Either way I'm thinking Resilience Constitution is one of the best feats simply because of Concentration.

[sambojin]

It depends on how your DM plays it. Officially it's zero feats, and you only get them by replacing ability score increases.

If your character is a Variant Human you start with one though.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

totally do-able
Sorc 1 / Moon Druid 17 / Sorc +2 ... or maybe a little earlier on Sorc 2 and 3 depending on campaign.
dump Str and Int , Wis max , Variant Human or Half-Elf
You don't need Land because of the sorc goodies, can use Scrolls if available
+2 to Wis
+2 to Wis 2nd time
probably don't need a +2 to a secondary stat
Alert
Resilient Wis (since Sorc gives Con at level 1)
Polearm Master especially with Shelilagh
Ritual feat too if you still want (and have access) more wizardy/arcaney feel

[Necrosnoop110]

In 5th edition, EVERY spellcasting class is a Mystic Theurge.

[sambojin]

All combinations of spell-casting classes (except Warlock) pseudo-level your spell slots. Which sort of means spell levels as well. You just won't have learned the higher level spells to cast them. But the slots/levels will be there, which is sort of what Mystic Theurge does, doesn't it?