@ PlzBreakMyCampaign: Sorry for the massive delay in reply, completely forgot as this isn't my regular board.
Agreed that it is a grey area, but you forgot to add 'unless an outside trigger effects or forces something different (like another creature or weight or spell, etc)
I would file those under special effects/rules, as being able to force a spell to do something other than what it's description/caster want it to is a very special thing.
Correct, there are grappling rules for that. A) You can target anything you can pinpoint with a sense, B) you can grapple anything you can target/touch/grapple etc as specified by the grappling rules. C) additional rules can be infered from other spells that the caster would use the casting stat in leui of strength for the purpose of the grapple check. And let's also not forget the rule of cool and that spells need to be understood in their least broken applications, not their TO, most broken interpretations.
Are you genuinely suggesting one can grapple something that ISN'T a creature?
That seems completely outlandish to me, but I suppose... okay, this would need a separate discussion all together imo... the ammount of special cases and considerations that would need to be considered... yeah, not touching that can of worms at this time.
Rule of cool I can get behind in game, although I believe handbooks ought to be impartial in that regard. Similarly broken interpretations should be acknowledged as such, but that doesn't mean they should be off limits for handbooking purposes.
Just a maybe? Of course you could. And those two things are different. You can stop a spell effect without explicit rules in that same spell. You use other general rules: common physics, other spells, etc. But you can't get spells to do things they say they can't unless you have specific rules: feats, class features, etc.
Well, if the spell had defined the disk as an object that I would assume that the authors would have mentioned something as to how one should treat it for at least some purpose, hence the maybe. I did not mean to suggest that spells can't be stopped without rules within the spell, obviously other things that say you can do so let you do so. And of course, we are in agreement that getting spells to do things their descriptions don't allow is impossible. It is simply my position that the disks explicit ability to maintain a constant interval means exactly that, even against external forces trying to move it due to (see next section).
Because it is stated explicitly. Otherwise normal, non-catgirl-killing physics applies ... because its an object. If it were a pure effect that didn't have an object component, you couldn't set the color and you'd have no idea where you last put it. After all it wouldn't be an object you could see, it would be an invisible spell effect that wouldn't even show up with true seeing!
I think this is the crux of our disagreement. You consider the Disk to be an object. I consider the Disk to be a spell effect that happens to have some physical characteristics that can be found in objects. I've already mentioned some of my main reason why I don't consider it an object (e.g. evocation instead of conjuration), but I thought of another one that might bring us to a resolution:
Do you think that a Tenser's Floating Disk should be a legal target for the spell Animate Objects?
I really don't think it should, both for my aforementioned reason, and the terrible
terrible cheese that could result from this itself, as well as the precedent it would set.
The real question is, how many use-based items (not continuous) even have unlimited uses per day in all of D&D? I'm still think that's a typo that the limitation was not inserted but if you can find like a dozen items that behave in such a manner, I'll have to concede.
Hmm, lets see, from the top of my head... Shirt of Wraith stalking, 6000 gp, hide from undead at will (never do an undead campaign without it). Hand of the Mage, 900 gp, Mage hand at will. The collar of perpetual attendance (Fabulous Cats), 2000 gp, Unseen Servant at will (best utility ever next to prestidigitation). Babbling Wheel (Savage Species), 2000 gp, Hypnotism at will (check out my redeemery handbook on giantitp, it is killer for that stull). Helm of Wounding sight, 6500 gp, Light at will (not a great thing, just happened to remember). Gloves of the Uldra Savant, 3100 gp, Ray of frost at will (love that one on certain SA builds). The Crytal Balls, lots of gp, Scry and other stuff at will. Pipes of Sounding, 1800 gp, Ghost Sound at will (can be fun). Amulet of the Planes, 120000 gp, Planes Shift at will. Medallion of Though, 12000 gp, Detect Thoughts at will. Ring of Telekenisis/Blink/Invsiblity/Animal Friendship, XX000 gp, said spells at will. Hat of Disguise, 1800 gp, Disguise Self at will (very handy for certain things for obvious reasons).
I think this should suffice. MIC has a trend for 3/day items, but both it and the DMG have a long list of items that are just at will across all price-brackets.
By the way, thanks for this discussion.
No, thank
you for your interest in my handbook
