And finally maneuvers, once more.
Climb certainly ain't a very useful skill, but not like I haven't worked with more ridiculous skills for other disciplines.
No shield for bashing in discipline weapons? ;P
Does the amount of money I spent on booze for my gaming group scale the effect?Ama-no-Iwato Throwing Event - This seemed pretty par for the course, though it certainly doesn't scale that well unless your GM just leaves perfectly sized boulders lying around for you to toss all the time. Might want to add a line about ripping up chunks of ground if necessary, and maybe default it to soft or whatever else might be appropriate? I particularly noticed the range which at a glance seems to be pretty much superior to anything else in the discipline, and is kind of the only decent option for dealing with threats at Long range (Fireball spam+Fly strikes me as very annoying for an Oni). Seemed kind of odd that there weren't as many nice throwing options later in the discipline such as boosts for throwing full attacks. Gotta make use of that str to thrown y'know.
Earth Spirit - The damage on this seems kind of lackluster. It sets up an AoO provoke, but you're set up to dump dex so there's not a lot you're doing with this aside from hoping they don't move away from you to dodge the extra damage and maybe getting a free hit in on someone. That's if they even care enough about some fairly poor damage for a full round action that doesn't really compare to you just hitting them with your super strength. Early on the damage from just climb ranks is pretty lackluster, and later on you should have better things to do with a full round. A non-pounce charge is arguably better in most situations, since the kind of clumping up this would require to get the full use out of it could also cause you to provoke AoOs by getting into position. Lack of tumble or alternatives kind of hurt this class'.
Breath "Small Oni's Deep Breath" - Does this give you the ability to swallow a ray like from a spell? Could you catch someone's disintegrate and spit it back at them? It's very powerful if so, though if it's just projectiles from normal/magic weapons then meh, though it would at least beat the hell out of deflect arrows I guess.
Spectre - This seems like it would have a lot of potential if it scaled, but it's certainly not bad for a 1st level maneuver.
Oni Sign "Missing Power" - This is nice, though what if you're already large(or larger) or have powerful build to begin with? Seems like a lot of unnecessary restriction on the size caps, and maybe make the powerful build stack with other instances of the ability.
Drunk Sign "Art of Oni Binding" - I saw the argument about this one, and my opinion on how it affects PP is to agree with Os that the penalty doesn't actually do that much. Against a PC it forces the Psion to rest earlier, but it fails to adequately penalize them except in the strategical sense and if it's against a psion NPC it's not going to really do anything in the combat it's applied. I perhaps differ in that I think that's a problem. Did you consider just cutting off access to a couple powers the target knows for the duration of the encounter or until they next recover PP or whatever? The % bit might be relevant for other mechanics, but I'd have to think about what else you're affecting.
Oni Spirit Bomb - Does this move with you? I'm not sure how useful the charging mechanic is if you have to stick to one place for two or three rounds. That's probably a bit too much commitment outside of some very specific circumstances. If it does move with you, then it's pretty useful and interesting though the lack of tumble again kind of holds you back.
Unpleasant Mist - "You replicate a Gaseous Form effect on yourself as the spell that lasts until the start of your next turn, except instead of DR 10/magic." This sentence seems unfinished.
Aside from that I have to say this is pretty crap. As a get out of being attacked free card it's pretty lacking since you're moving pretty slowly in gaseous form by default, and going gaseous doesn't really prevent you from being harmed unless the DR can negate it. It seems like you're betting on your allies taking advantage of the penalty to put them in the ground to avoid getting fucked when you come out of gaseous form, but you still can be attacked in gaseous form so you're still fairly vulnerable and you've pretty much lost your ability to contribute while you're in it. The fact that there's a stance on the next level which makes gaseous form actually useful is what really puts this in the category of stuff you should pretty much never take.
Giant Oni of Earth's Axis - This is much nicer as a replacement for Earth Spirit. It's semi-decent initiation (kind of meh distance for a full round, supposed to catch flyers but you have to stand on the ground so it's unlikely you'll catch any of them), though I'm not sure if it scales well enough to consider using it at higher levels.
Also I feel like this should have just been a full round action strike, since I'm not sure it's worth giving up a swift and full round for. (edit: Ignore that sentence. I was discounting the fact that the special attack was a "may" option.) Do you have to make an attack roll for this "attack"?
Fireball "Earth Spirit Reactive Bullet" - Width of line? So this is supposed to affect flying enemies, but you have to be on the ground to use it, so you have to just fire it directly at someone in the air I guess? Since it's meant to be anti-air it could probably either use a bit more length or give it some serious height. Better than close, but consistently behind medium by 60ft.
Thin Oni - Same question about the ball moving with you as with Oni Spirit Bomb. This is pretty decent.
Gather Sign "Throwing Mt.Togakushi" - Question I should have brought up earlier. Do flying creatures take falling damage when hit by these sort of effects? Also, is this a boulder you target at someone and hit 5 ft radius around the square/target hit, or is this a 5ft radius as in from a square corner? I thought the latter initially, but treating it like a weapon with the range increments and so on threw me off. It seems like this could use some area scaling with your climb ranks as well to get bigger boulders. This overtakes medium range at about level 7, so pretty decent.
Mist Sign "Gathering and Dissipating" - Several things to say about this.
"-Your DR/magic is equal to your Str mod." This is actually a downgrade for some, though you should be getting over this amount in strength after a certain point. Maybe the higher of that or the default?
"-You can't raise higher above the ground than 5 feet per 5 IL."
I know the theme of this is meant to be mainly focused with you being on the ground, but you think you could at least get flight when you really need it rather than just a bit of extended reach from ground level. You already need to be on the ground for most relevant abilities, but any fight at higher altitudes kind of leaves you completely useless. I mean I guess there's mithral pure crafted armor for air walk, but that's coming online pretty late considering flight's ubiquity. Also what happens if you take this stance at a higher altitude than you're allowed? I assume you float down to the max height allowed?
"-You can momentarily solidify to perform physical activities. You can even grapple creatures. You don't lose any stance benefits while grappling." Can I solidify myself when attacked to get the full benefit of my AC over Gaseous Form's crap? Also do you have to remain solidified for the grapple? What happens if you're off the ground with no flight since you're solidified?
"-You can fill up to a number of 5x5x5 cubes equal to your ranks in Climb, that must be connected to at least one another but can otherwise be positioned as you want. You can change your “shape” and size" as a move action." OH GOD THE AOO NIGHTMARE. THE MOVEMENT RULES ON A NON-RECTANGULAR CREATURE. FLANKING AAAAHHHH. GOD IS DEAD AND WE HAVE KILLED HIM.....so yeah, all those fun wording problems. Also, does reshaping oneself provoke AoOs(I would suggest not, because otherwise AAAAAAAAAHHH) and is there supposed to be an origin or something or can you just reposition yourself to and from any square you were previously occupying? Like lets say for a simple example that you're in a line of squares. Can you reshape yourself in a way in that you just switch all your squares to just be on the other side of one of your end squares and basically have it work out as if you'd moved the entire length of yourself? I might be able to make some wording suggestions here, but first have to ask intent and my god it'll be a mess.
"-Other creatures need to succeed at a Spot check opposed by a Climb check from you to recognize you as a creature instead of a mist, although if you attack them, they automatically recognize you as not being regular fog." This is a great little hide/move silently replacement, though if someone is wise to your schtick from a previous encounter I assume they might at least be suspicious of a random patch of wandering mist. I like the utility here.
I admit it's potentially a very useful stance considering how much you get packed into it, though it does have its downsides and needs a lot of clarification. It might be so useful as to consider using even your higher level stances in most cases.
Foot Bellows - Does this require a jump check, or do you just rocket straight towards them from any distance? Also, is line of sight or effect an issue?
Tiny Night Parade of a Hundred Demons - Complicated. Lemme sort through here.
-Not that this is likely to come up, but what happens if you don't have eight or more copies to constitute as a large creature (since that's the smallest size listed on mob)?
-Does the mob need to recalculate HP? Does any damage you take in mob form carry over when you return to normal?
-Does it get your same gear? I could see a headache if you have to recalculate speed, AC, or the like if all the mini copies are otherwise not the same. You already have to do that for the new size, but blech.
-Not sure how this thing interacts with the mist sign or other stances.
-Hoo boy that saves section under mob seems unclear. Language that broad and sweeping will probably just require serious GM adjudication to be clear on what and how things effect you.
And for all that you get... a move and swift/immediate before you break back down to normal. Maybe another standard with high level pure crafting. I can sort of appreciate the potential here, but I think for the most part this is an over-complicated way to do a simple stampede effect.
Kidnapping Oni - This is great range, but I think I'm probably going to pretty much always remain concerned about that since you're so heavily invested in remaining on the ground to deal with flyers. It easily takes care of most ranges that you would fight at in terms of reach, but long range is well out of it. You can pull someone a good 100ft or more at higher levels, but only about 50 ft when you get it so I think the distance pulled will feel a bit lackluster since this seems to be your main capability for pulling flyers down to melee range unless you already have a serious str advantage over them. The grapple is great if it works though. Might want to specify that the movement will stop if they reach a square adjacent to you to prevent them from being forced into your square and any weirdness that might ensue. Also what happens if you pull them through an obstacle? I can imagine pulling a guard through jail bars, or similar situations.
Oni Sign "Large Speck in the Needle Hell" - I think "You create a tiny sized copy of yourself in an empty square adjacent to you that acts instantly, plus another at 13 Climb ranks and every other 3 ranks in Climb you have." should have been "You create a tiny sized copy of yourself in an empty square adjacent to you that acts instantly, plus another copy if you possess 13 ranks in Climb and for every 3 ranks thereafter." Also, do they benefit from any stance you might have been in when you initiated the maneuver?
Anyway I think I can see plenty of uses for this, though it's pretty weird. Kind of strange that you decided to have this and the mob maneuver, especially at the same level.
Fire Oni - Can you choose to make a melee attack into the air if you just want the cone like with Spectre's ranged attack?
Drunken Dream "Art of Segaki Binding" - I'm assuming LOE/LOS and range don't matter, and the string will just go through stuff to the source of damage? Probably should specify "you and the opponent that harmed you". See what I said about Drunk Sign "Art of Oni Binding" for the rest.
Gathering Oni - I like this, though the pull might not be significant enough since you don't have the major advantage of your climb ranks like you do with Kidnapping Oni. Even if it affects everyone, just slowly closing the gap every round might not be useful in any fight where you don't start fairly close.
Oni God's Will-o'-Wisp Art - Can you choose an enemy that you can't see or have LOE to? Does it go through or around obstacles? Would make a pretty funny way to find someone long distance since it doesn't stop til it gets them.
Reverse Exorcism Black Hole - Neat, though kind of specific. Mostly only useful for evil/chaotic onis, but I can appreciate a counter counter even if those effects aren't always that scary. Does ending an effect that harms you prevent the damage/negative effects it would deal in the case of something instantaneous like Holy Smite or Holy Word? Countering those would be pretty great.
Oni Crowd "Imp Swarm" - Don't think what I said about the previous mob maneuver being overcomplicated doesn't still apply. Tiny Night Parade of a Hundred Demons could still be simplified while retaining the combo potential with this. Anyway, turning into a mob is much more interesting as a stance since you get to play with all the options that provides you. All the same questions from before still apply to this one, plus a couple others since you have to consider all the options you have to use.
-Any particular reason for the downgrade to tiny bodies and less per rank?
-Does Mob Mind prevent maneuver use?
-If it doesn't could you use something like Ama-no-Iwato Throwing Event with Volley?
I think this one would definitely grow on me with use since it would take time to get accustomed to all the mob template stuff, but also really changes up your tactics. Oni Brawler definitely isn't for those that just want to stay in a relatively normal form most of the time it would seem. You are physics/causality breaking crazy pretty much 100% of the time.
Sparse Sign "Beyond All in the Fog" - Uh, duration? Is it supposed to be as Gaseous Form, but using your IL or something? Could be useful, but this one specifies only turning solid to deliver attacks so you have to rely on the shit AC and DR of gaseous form. You didn't actually specify, but I assume the copy gets to take actions independently as you would right? Does the diguise check let you pass yourself off as not-fog? That seems like a pretty big detail modifier against the disguise check. Specify the duration and the extra actions and I think this could be pretty solid. Would be nicer if your AC weren't crap in gaseous form. Depending on the duration this could be a solid answer to the enemies that would normally just outrange you all day.
Oni Sign "Complete Massacre on Mt. Ooe" - Considering potential size/reach, I think adjacency is kind of a difficult thing to expect of the brawler at this level so reach might be better. No save "Get lost chump!" is a pretty unique effect. You don't usually see an effect designed to get an enemy out of range before you're necessarily finished with them, especially for a melee focused character. It'd be nice if you could use an object as with Ama-no-Iwato Throwing Event as well for more tactical flexibility. The range on here is pretty good, so it's a nice anti-air option. But it would require having ground enemies to make use of otherwise. I think this one will need testing to see how I feel about it in depth, but as always I want more range on my anti air options considering that Long range spells/abilities and enemies retreating to high altitudes are still possibilities (it's a sad day when a character can be countered by Fly+Fireball spam at this level).
One Oni Wrecking Machine - I assume the shockwave is a burst, and therefore has height right? Pretty good AoE here, though a tad cumbersome for all the rolling required.
Oni Crowd "Hundred Oni Kaburo" - The level gap between this and Oni Sign "Large Speck in the Needle Hell" is weird since the two largely have very different restrictions. I'd almost say that they should switch places, since multiple tiny copies that have full actions are going to be way more useful than bulk standard actions only with the same restrictions on those actions. Plus the full round to maintain is meh. You could get more utility out of a bulk number, but the one that seems more useful in combat seems like it would make more sense at a higher level. Especially considering how the other one doesn't start scaling up noticeably until later ranks.
Qi of Oni "Deep Fog Labyrinth" - Now this is the first gaseous form maneuver aside from the stance that I see as something that could regularly see use, though it feels like it should be switched with Sparse Sign "Beyond All in the Fog" since doubled actions are definitely more powerful and you could really use more movement capability earlier. The gaseous form maneuvers in general might benefit from a featherfall effect at the end of them in case you end not on solid ground. Would seem thematic and greatly increases their flexibility and utility against aerial opponents.
Gathering Oni "Throwing Ame-no-Tajikarao" - This is pretty neat, though I think it gives a big incentive to never hang around in your melee range which means you'll never catch any pesky spellcaster that remembers that they can just fly away instead of trying to teleport or somesuch. It's very nice otherwise, though the most effective use of this with multiple enemies means throwing it over people, which means the enemy ultimately ends up back up in the air out of your reach and really far away. It'd be nice if you could get a plummet on the target after they reach the end of the forced movement, which would make up for them not taking damage like everyone else you threw them over (save or daze is still nice though). I think being too broad isn't so much of a problem for a maneuver of this level, especially since this mostly puts an enemy away from you for a round in a tactical position that's unfavorable to you to deal with after their round of timeout, unless they were also melee focused which means they're more likely to no sell the daze anyway and close that gap right back up on their next turn.
Oni God "Missing Purple Power" - Pretty decent tanking stance, though at this level I really feel like you're quite vulnerable to simply being outranged, which this stance in particular won't be able to counter well since you don't even have your ranged maneuvers and the shockwave won't hit any flyer that's not stupid.
Will-o'-Wisp "Super High Density Phosphorus Disaster Art" - You may want to specify that they stop falling when they hit a solid surface so they don't fall forever, unless you want to allow for choosing where it stops on the way down. I assume that cases where a ball crosses over an enemy multiple times will not trigger the damage multiple times? You imply that the other balls after the first are meant to drop, but don't actually mention that they behave the same as the first ball in this respect.
Big Four Arcanum "Destruction in Three Steps" - Since this is a boost and not a strike, you should probably replace "target" like so:
"The next enemy that you make at least three melee attacks against and hit at least once before the start of your next round must make a Fort save or be destroyed to pieces, with a penalty on the save equal to three times the number of attacks you actually hit them with".
Hell Sigh of Purgatory - Circle or sphere of mist? Multiple equal rolls means like if you get the same result more than once right? Rage seems like an odd effect to throw in there.
Pandemonium-"Night Parade of One Million Demons" - That first sentence is a bit of a mouthful. It basically makes up to four of your attacks target everything you can see per turn right? When you say other, does that mean those that you weren't targeting with your attacks previously? And finally, what happens if you don't have anymore alcohol on hand or you run out mid drinking spree? The penalty to skills if applied to your allies seems like an unnecessary penalty considering that the stance is already a risky gamble. Even if it was meant to apply to enemies, you still need to add a clause for that. In fact, you might just want to say enemies and inanimate objects you want to destroy that you can see or something like that from the very beginning. Save yourself an unnecessary sentence. It's nice to finally get something that can adequately respond to flyers at any range, but it's of course way too late to make a difference in most games.
Overall I feel like this school is really weird and nifty. A lot of clarification needed of course. You probably noticed a theme with my review in that I see how this school wants to do the anti-air while remaining groundbound thing with maneuvers designed to counter flyers to make up for the inherant weakness of that, but unless you're able to deal with flyers at Long range you're going to be exploited eventually when enemies get wise to your limitations.
As a PC you're going to need flight somehow and it's ok if the hardcore flight is left out of the class itself since magic items are still a thing and it's rare that you need unrestricted altitude capability, but if the enemy can simply outrange you or decide to take the fight somewhere else where you simply can't follow while your party is forced to chase them down without you, you're going to simply be left out of fights with any enemy that's intelligent enough to exploit that weakness. Them simply running away to the sky is mitigatable to some extent, but them deciding to fight you in a range that you're incapable of responding to will be your downfall.
I acknowledge that a lot of melee builds and classes simply don't respond to this already, but the issue is especially glaring here since the discipline is designed to deal with flyers but is still ultimately incapable of dealing with the most annoying ones. You probably wouldn't even need that much to fix this. Perhaps making Ama-no-Iwato Throwing Event scale a bit better into the early levels, maybe giving a decent staple boost in the 3rd-4th level range for throwers, and maybe extending range/height on a few of the maneuvers that are specifically anti-air would probably do it.
Anyway I hope I get the chance to mess around with this in a game soon, though perhaps not since that would mean my Youkai Magician kicks the bucket. ;P
