Fun Finds v7.0 - Now with +15% more reposts!

[Kethrian]

Initiate of Amaunator is interesting, especially if you have ways of adding new Fire spells to your spell list. Divine Magician comes to mind.

I looked up the feat in the book itself, and from how the prerequisites are parsed ('Prerequisite' is singular, all 4 choices are separated with commas and last has an 'or'), you just need any one of the four requirements in order to take the feat.  That makes it pretty sweet.

Prerequisite: Cleric or paladin 4th, Heretic of the Faith (Risen Sun), Heretic of the Faith (Three-Faced Sun), or Servant of the Fallen (Amaunator).

[linklord231]

Initiate of Amaunator is interesting, especially if you have ways of adding new Fire spells to your spell list. Divine Magician comes to mind.

I don't remember how  or if it worked, but I seem to recall a trick that involved that feat + some way to get the Fire descriptor on every spell to spontaneously cast your whole list.

[Garryl]

Initiate of Amaunator is interesting, especially if you have ways of adding new Fire spells to your spell list. Divine Magician comes to mind.

I don't remember how  or if it worked, but I seem to recall a trick that involved that feat + some way to get the Fire descriptor on every spell to spontaneously cast your whole list.

Probably Snowcasting (add cold descriptor to every spell) + Energy Substitution (replace cold descriptor with fire descriptor), or something like that.

[Amechra]

I'm pretty sure that doesn't work - while Snowcasting + Energy Substitution (Fire) lets you cast, say, Divine Might as a [Fire] spell, it doesn't mean that you have Divine Might on your spell list as a [Fire] spell.

It might work with the Spirit Shaman, though, since they can grab metamagic versions of spells for their spells "known".

[SorO_Lost]

I don't think it works with Spirit Shaman either. I mean you're right that a SS Known mechanic can retrieve an Empowered Spell but...

If a spirit shaman knows any metamagic feats, she applies them to her spells when she retrieves her spells for the day. For example, a spirit shaman might choose to retrieve an empowered flame strike by using a 6th-level spell retrieved slot. Any time she uses flame strike during the ensuing day, she must use a 6th-level spell slot to cast it, and it is always empowered. A spirit shaman could use a 4th-level spell slot and a 6th-level spell slot to retrieve flame strike and empowered flame strike if she wanted to have both spells available to her in a day. A spirit shaman cannot choose to alter her spells with metamagic feats on the fly, as other spontaneous casters do. Spirit shamans using metamagic feats do not have an increased casting time as sorcerers do.

But you're still using the Spell, IE retrieving a Maximized Cone of Cold is still choosing Cone of Cold, except the Slot is 8th and it's Maximized which is pretty much how a Wizard already does things anyway.

[Eldritch_Lord]

Would Initiate of Amaunator + Elemental Savant (Fire) let you spontaneously cast any damaging spell with an energy descriptor?  In that case, the qualifying spells themselves are automatically cast as [Fire] spells, rather than needing a second step of applying Energy Substitution to be a [Fire] spell.

Further, would a cleric/wizard/geomancer with Initiate of Amaunator be able to spontaneously cast [Fire] spells from both the cleric and wizard lists via Spell Versatility?

[SorO_Lost]

Would Initiate of Amaunator + Elemental Savant (Fire) let you spontaneously cast any damaging spell with an energy descriptor?

It's exactly the same deal, the Elemental Savant replaces the Energy Descriptor when the Spell is Cast.

Further, would a cleric/wizard/geomancer with Initiate of Amaunator be able to spontaneously cast [Fire] spells from both the cleric and wizard lists via Spell Versatility?

Not really.

A Cleric and/or Wizard does not meet the requirements for Spell Versatility to begin with. The short gist is there is a huge mechanical differences between the two (such as one casts prepared spells and spontaneously substitutes them and the other doesn't prepare and expends slots) and even the RC flat out says a Cleric's Spontaneous Casting obeys the spontaneous rules, such as in the case of Metamagics, but otherwise still functions as Prepared Spellcasting on page 139.

It also probably doesn't work on the Wizard's Spells either. It's one of those grey areas I've never fully done into, but there is quite a bit of context that keys stuff like Feats to tie into how you're meeting the Requirements. But there is one known exception, the FAQ's ruling that the Duskblade's Arcane Channeling works with any Spell. It seems cut and dry, Feat means Cleric only cus Duskblade is Class without Requirements, but I'm still procrastinating on looking into it.

[Sinfire Titan]

Familiar Spell
Prerequisite: Familiar, Spell Mastery
Benefit:You are able to prepare one spell of any level that you have mastered with the Spell Mastery feat in your familiar's mind instead of your own, treating the extra preparation as if you had one extra spell slot per day, which can only be used for a mastered spell. You can cast this spell normally as long as your familiar is within 5ft of you. Once cast, the spell is used up as normal. Your familiar cannot cast this spell itself even if it has the ability to cast spells otherwise.

Special: You may gain this feat multiple times. Each time you take it, your familiar can hold one additional spell per day.

An amazing feat, at the cost of Spell Mastery tax.

[Eldritch_Lord]

Further, would a cleric/wizard/geomancer with Initiate of Amaunator be able to spontaneously cast [Fire] spells from both the cleric and wizard lists via Spell Versatility?

Not really.

A Cleric and/or Wizard does not meet the requirements for Spell Versatility to begin with. The short gist is there is a huge mechanical differences between the two (such as one casts prepared spells and spontaneously substitutes them and the other doesn't prepare and expends slots) and even the RC flat out says a Cleric's Spontaneous Casting obeys the spontaneous rules, such as in the case of Metamagics, but otherwise still functions as Prepared Spellcasting on page 139.

It also probably doesn't work on the Wizard's Spells either. It's one of those grey areas I've never fully done into, but there is quite a bit of context that keys stuff like Feats to tie into how you're meeting the Requirements. But there is one known exception, the FAQ's ruling that the Duskblade's Arcane Channeling works with any Spell. It seems cut and dry, Feat means Cleric only cus Duskblade is Class without Requirements, but I'm still procrastinating on looking into it.

I think you're thinking of Versatile Spellcaster here.  I'm talking about the Geomancer's Spell Versatility class feature:

Spell Versatility: At 1st level, the geomancer learns to blend divine and arcane magic. He still acquires and prepares his spells in the normal manner for his individual spellcasting classes. When he casts them, however, he can mix or match spellcasting parameters from any of his classes to gain the maximum possible advantage for any spell with a spell level equal to or less than his spell versatility score. Thus, as a 4th-level geomancer, he can cast any of his 3rd-level or lower sorcerer/wizard spells with no chance of arcane spell failure from armor. (The druidic prohibition against metal armor still applies to druid/geomancers, however, since this stricture stems from a spiritual oath rather than a practical limitation.) The geomancer may use his Wisdom modifier to set the save DC for arcane spells, or his Charisma or Intelligence modifier (whichever he would normally use for arcane spells) to set the save DC for divine spells. If a spell requires either an arcane material component or a divine focus, he may use either. A cleric/geomancer who also has levels of wizard, sorcerer, or bard can spontaneously convert any prepared arcane or divine spell (except a domain spell) of an appropriate level into a cure or inflict spell of equal or lower level, though he must be capable of casting the latter as a cleric.

Specifically, while Spell Versatility is also a change-the-spell-at-casting-time ability, if a cleric can say "my wizard spells are cleric spells" for the purposes of determining that he can spontaneously convert them into cure spells, then it stands to reason that he can say the same for the purposes of determining what [Fire] spells he can cast with Initiate of Amaunator, because the feat says "This functions the same way as spontaneous cure spells do."

[SorO_Lost]

I think you're thinking of Versatile Spellcaster here.

Yeah I was.

I'm talking about the Geomancer's Spell Versatility class feature.

It's entry pretty much answers it now don't it? If Geo allows you to spontaneously convert your Wizard Spells to Cure using the Cleric's conversion, contextually it'd work even if Initiate of Amaunator were originally intended Cleric.

[KellKheraptis]

Well, that just made my Geomancer gish that much better...wonder how all this would work with a Shai'ir (or however the hell it's spelled) Raptoran All-The-Spell-Lists build...

[SorO_Lost]

Well, that just made my Geomancer gish that much better...wonder how all this would work with a Shai'ir (or however the hell it's spelled) Raptoran All-The-Spell-Lists build...

You make both those Classes sound better than they actually are.

Geomancer without an accelerated casting PrC is pretty much a kick to the crotch, trading four levels of spell progression so you can ignore ASF and use your less-than-useful Wisdom in place of either superior Charisma or Intelligence. But be mindful of the Geo's limitation that if the Initiate of Amaunator is tried to Cleric, and it certainly should, your Cleric level must also be higher enough to pull it off. IE Wizard 3 / Cleric 3 / Geo(wizard) 3 cannot replace a Wizard Spell with Orb of Fire because his Cleric side has no access to 4th level Spells.

And the Shai'ir is a quick reminder that it often seems like Dragon Magazine was written by some of the worst homebrewers on the 339. It's biggest hangup is it's completely unusable at low levels. It takes 1d6+1 minutes to prepare a spell that's instantly lost after an hour and that's assuming you can even make the successful Diplomacy Check which for a 1st level Divine Spell starts at an effective 28 with a +2 per previous failure. Somewhere around level eight it becomes reliably and useful, but I just can't help but think of how much more effective it'd be just to take Arcane Disciple in a better Domain given that 90% of those Domain Spells are on the Wizard's list anyway and if you're aiming for high levels a Warmage / Rainbow Servant is superior in every possible way.

[Garryl]

Contender for longest duration non-permanent effect: A Spider Eater's poison can paralyze for 1d8+5 WEEKS!

[TC X0 Lt 0X]

Contender for longest duration non-permanent effect: A Spider Eater's poison can paralyze for 1d8+5 WEEKS!

I wonder why they thought that was ever necessary...

EDIT
I guess for the egg laying, but I dont know it seems easier to just let it reapply it every day =P.
Really though, egg laying doesnt need to be a noted special ability either.

[ketaro]

Except a Spider Eater ain't gonna be healing its target every day and being constantly paralyzed isn't a viable condition for the target to gain healing every day through natural healing so really even after all of this stuff considered on both sides, the target is going to die by dehydration and/or starvation long before the implanted eggs hatch and eat their way out.

So I guess who ever wrote that just figured it was moot because you'd either be A) Dead regardless or B) Your party will fix you.

[Kerrus]

With regards to the spontaneous fire casting bits, in theory metamagic should work as a guide for spell research. Going by at least one reading of the spell research rules, if a spell already exists but isn't on your list, you can just straight up add it to your list for cheap, whereas inventing something whole cloth requires a lot more time and effort.

With that in mind, being able to scribe a scroll of a metamagically enhanced spell should justify scribing that 'version' of the spell into your spellbook.

So for example, learning a [fire] descriptor version of Cone of Cold should only cost 900 gp, and takes one day of research, provided you know the energy substitution metamagic feat, and know Cone of Cold. The cost would go up if you don't know Cone of Cold, or need to hire a spellbook based arcane caster with the relevant feat- or both.

Using such an option would actually introduce a very interesting aspect to the game from a DM perspective, namely 'rare spells'. Metamagic cost reducers exist, after all, so it's entirely feasible that a properly equipped wizard might research a maximized, empowered, widden, quickened fireball with metamagic reduction out the ass (such as via arcane thesis) that takes up only a slightly higher spell slot.

That could then exist as a 'rare spell' that wizard players might quest for, or could be found as loot (in the BBEG's spellbook, for example). It would also give wizards incentive to dump their money on shit other than just more magic items.

[KellKheraptis]

Well, that just made my Geomancer gish that much better...wonder how all this would work with a Shai'ir (or however the hell it's spelled) Raptoran All-The-Spell-Lists build...

You make both those Classes sound better than they actually are.

Geomancer without an accelerated casting PrC is pretty much a kick to the crotch, trading four levels of spell progression so you can ignore ASF and use your less-than-useful Wisdom in place of either superior Charisma or Intelligence. But be mindful of the Geo's limitation that if the Initiate of Amaunator is tried to Cleric, and it certainly should, your Cleric level must also be higher enough to pull it off. IE Wizard 3 / Cleric 3 / Geo(wizard) 3 cannot replace a Wizard Spell with Orb of Fire because his Cleric side has no access to 4th level Spells.

Wasn't Geomancer 10/10 but needed a hack like DK to have casting from both arcane and divine?

[Jackinthegreen]

Well, that just made my Geomancer gish that much better...wonder how all this would work with a Shai'ir (or however the hell it's spelled) Raptoran All-The-Spell-Lists build...

You make both those Classes sound better than they actually are.

Geomancer without an accelerated casting PrC is pretty much a kick to the crotch, trading four levels of spell progression so you can ignore ASF and use your less-than-useful Wisdom in place of either superior Charisma or Intelligence. But be mindful of the Geo's limitation that if the Initiate of Amaunator is tried to Cleric, and it certainly should, your Cleric level must also be higher enough to pull it off. IE Wizard 3 / Cleric 3 / Geo(wizard) 3 cannot replace a Wizard Spell with Orb of Fire because his Cleric side has no access to 4th level Spells.

Wasn't Geomancer 10/10 but needed a hack like DK to have casting from both arcane and divine?

Geomancer is only 10/10 for one of the progressions.

[SorO_Lost]

Wasn't Geomancer 10/10 but needed a hack like DK to have casting from both arcane and divine?

If DK stands for Dragonwrought Kobold you should stab your self in the face.

On the other hand if you meant MT as in Mystic Theurge yes in theory you could, probably.
I forgot about it because MT is a trap without accelerated casting classes (sensing a theme yet?).

[KellKheraptis]

Wasn't Geomancer 10/10 but needed a hack like DK to have casting from both arcane and divine?

If DK stands for Dragonwrought Kobold you should stab your self in the face.

On the other hand if you meant MT as in Mystic Theurge yes in theory you could, probably.
I forgot about it because MT is a trap without accelerated casting classes (sensing a theme yet?).

Dweomerkeeper, actually.