Author Topic: Hydra  (Read 14442 times)

Offline oslecamo

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Hydra
« on: November 30, 2011, 03:13:27 AM »
Hydra



Hit Dice: d10
Level    BAB    Fort    Ref    Will    Feature

1    +0   +2   +2   +0   Hydra Body, Hydra's Bite,  Regrowth, +1 Str, +1 Con
2    +1   +3   +3   +0   Fast Healing, +1 Str, +1 Con
3    +1   +3   +3   +1   Growth, +1 Str, +1 Con
4    +2   +4   +4   +1   Growth, Scent, +1 Str, +1 Con
5    +2   +4   +4   +1   Hydra Skills, +1 Str, +1 Con
6    +3   +5   +5   +2   Hydra Hunger, +1 Str, +1 Con
7    +3   +5   +5   +2   Hydra Ferocity, +1 Str, +1 Con
8    +4   +6   +6   +2   Hydra Reflexes, +1 Str, +1 Con
9    +4   +6   +6   +3   Hydra Healing, +1 Str, +1 Con
10   +5   +7   +7   +3   Lasting Heads, +1 Str, +1 Con
11   +5   +7   +7   +3   Magic Fangs, +1 Str, +1 Con

Skill Points: 2+Int (x4 at level 1)
Skills: Intimidate (Cha), Listen (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str)

Proficiencies:
Hydras are proficient with their natural attacks.

Features:
Hydra Body: The Hydra loses all other racial traits, and gains the Magical Beast type which grants low-light vision and a 60 foot Darkvision.  The Hydra also gains a natural armor equal to it's Con modifier, a 20 foot move speed and swim speed, and is medium sized.

A hydra has no limbs capable of fine manipulation, and has only two legs for moving around. It also has always just two head and neck slots, altough if the respective head/neck is cut off, another of the heads can instantly pick up any magic items on it. If the hydra is reduced to a single head and has two items on its head/neck slot, one of each falls to the ground at random.


Hydra's Bite:
The Hydra gains two bite attacks (from having two heads) at first level that do 1d6+Str damage.    Every new level of the Hydra class gives it another head that can make a new bite attack.

Regrowth: Whenever the hydra takes damage it instinctively "parries" it with their long necks. If it takes enough damage, the head is severed and two new sprout from the stomp 1d4 rounds later. An Hydra cannot have more heads total than 2*(Hydra level+1).

The damage needed to sprout each extra heads depends on the Hydra level:
Hydra Level   Percentage of max HP lost to grow an extra head.

1            50%
2            33%
3            25%
4            20%
5            17%
6            14%
7            13%
8            12%
9            11%
10           10%
11           9%
12           8%

The hydra may grow several extra heads in one turn if it takes enough damage in a single turn. Roll growth time separately for each cut head.

So for example a 2nd level Hydra with 18 HP that takes 13 damage from a single blow would grow two extra heads, rolling two separate d4.

A 10th level Hydra with 100 HP who loses 50 HP would grow five extra heads, rolling five separate d4.

If the Hydra recovers HP, her extra heads wither and fall off at the same ratio it gains when hurt. So if the 10th level Hydra of the last example recovered 30 HP it would lose three heads.

Ability Increase: The Hydra gains +1 Str and +1 Con at every level of this class.

Fast Healing: A Hydra gains Fast Healing at 2nd level, equal to 1/2 it's HD. The Hydra may choose to not heal itself in order to keep extra heads.

Growth: At 3rd level, the Hydra grows to large size.  Her bite attacks also improve from 1d6 to 1d8 damage.  At 4th level, the Hydra grows to Huge size and her bite attacks improve from 1d8 to 1d10 damage in a non-standard damage progression.

Notice the Hydra is a long animal and thus her reach is only 5 foot at large size and 10 foot at huge size.

Scent: As the standard SRD ability.

Hydra Skills: An hydra gets +1 to spot and listen checks for each head the have.

Hydra Hunger:The hydra may attack with all her heads as a standard action or in the end of a charge.

Hydra Ferocity:The hydra can act normally when disabled or dying.
If an hydra drops below -10 HP, it doesn't die untill her true head is striken. The heads are identical, thus the percentile chance to hit the true head is 100/number of heads. If the percentile chance is reached and the Hydra is left at -10 HP or less she dies.

 A character with cleave can re-roll this chance whenever it hits the Hydra. A character with greater cleave or whirlwind attack can cut all heads at once and auto-kill the Hydra if it's below -9 HP.
An area-damaging spell also automatically kills the Hydra if it leaves her below -9 HP.
Confirming a critical hit against the hydra that would leave it below -9 HP allows one to re-roll failed percentile chances a number of times equal to the weapon's critical multiplier.

Hydra Reflexes:The Hydra gains the combat reflexes feat even if it doesn't meet the pre-requisites, and whenever she's allowed an Aoo she can use all any and all of her bite attacks instead of just one, however bite attacks used for one Aoo cannot be used for other Aoos on the same round.

Hydra Healing:The Hydra's fast healing doubles. The Hydra can choose to fast heal less life than normal in order to keep her total number of heads.

Lasting Heads:Extra heads last 1 minute now when the Hydra recovers HP.

Magic Fangs:All of the Hydra's heads gain +1 Enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls. As a move action the Hydra can re-distribute her total enhancehment bonus among her heads, as long as the total bonus is equal to the number of heads.

No single head may be left with a bonus bigger than half the Hydra's HD, and no head may have an actual bonus to attack and damage bigger than 1/4 the Hydra's HD, although the enhancement bonus can be used to replicate special effects like flaming and holy, as long as the respective head already has at least +1 enhancement bonus.

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Pyro/Cryo Hydra (PrC)



Pre-Requisites:
-At least 4 levels in the Hydra class.

Hit Dice: d10
Level    BAB    Fort    Ref    Will    Feature
1   +0   +2   +2   +0   Elemental blood, Hydra Breath.
2   +1   +3   +3   +0   Improved Hydra Breath.
Skill Points: 2+Int
Skills: Intimidate (Cha), Listen (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str)

Features:
Elemental blood:Choose Acid, Fire, Electricity or Cold. The Hydra gains that subtype and immunity to that element. In the case of Acid they gain the [Earth] subtype and Electricity they gain the [Air] subtype (but not a flight speed).

Hydra Breath:  Can breathe jets of the chosen element 5 feet long per HD and 10 foot high/wide as a standard action. All heads must breathe at the same time in the same direction, and must wait 1d4 rounds. Their combined breath deals 1d6 points of the chosen element per head. A successful Reflex save halves the damage. The save DC is 10 + ½ HD + hydra’s Con modifier.

Improved Hydra Breath: The Hydra Breath is now 10 foot long per HD and deals 1d8 damage per head, plus it gets a special effect based on the element chosen.

Acid-Failed reflex save leaves damaged targets blinded for 1 round per HD.

Fire-Failed reflex save leaves damaged creatures dazed for 1 round and taking 1d6 fire damage at the start of their turn for 1 round per HD.

Electricity-Failed reflex save moves the damaged creature 5 foot per HD on a direction of the Hydra's choice. This movement causes no attacks of opportunity.

Cold-Failed reflex makes creature move at half speed for 1 round per HD. Multiple failed reflex saves stack the duration.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 08:19:15 PM by oslecamo »

Offline Von Krieger

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Re: Hydra
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2012, 09:51:32 PM »
Do levels the in PrC grant additional heads?

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Hydra
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2012, 06:53:56 PM »
No. The prc doesn't say anything about counting as hydra levels for gaining extra heads.

Offline FireInTheSky

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Re: Hydra
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2012, 09:01:30 PM »
Quote from: Pyro/Cryo Hydra
Elemental blood: Choose Acid, Fire, Electricity or Cold. The Hydra gains that subtype and immunity to that element.

[Acid] and [Electricity] subtypes don't exist.

Offline b100d_arrowz

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Re: Hydra
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2012, 01:11:01 AM »
Should be earth or air subtype instead
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Offline oslecamo

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Re: Hydra
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2012, 05:56:08 PM »
Good point, specified that.

Offline Threadnaught

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Re: Hydra
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2012, 12:22:17 PM »
I'm curious how to handle Magic Items worn on the head, with multiple heads. Can the Hydra wear multiple at once? (obviously not stackable)

Subtypes gained from the PrC amuse me, they're making me think of some things I'll search for and mention where relevant should I fail to find them.

Offline bobthe6th

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Re: Hydra
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2012, 01:17:02 PM »
lasting heads seems ripe for abuse... have the party beat you down to just into the negatives, then have the healer cast heal. do this for three rounds and get 36 bonus heads. then just curb stomp everything for seven rounds with 46 attacks per round... seems a bit much.
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Offline oslecamo

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Re: Hydra
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2012, 03:48:37 PM »
The number of heads you can have at once is hard-capped in Regrowth.

Magic Head items... To be honest never tought of that. Anyone has any ideas on how to deal with it?

Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

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Re: Hydra
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2012, 07:23:26 PM »
If you wanted to cut off any possible silliness you could rule that the Hydra may have many heads but it has only one "head slot" because magic.

However, I'm not convinced there's anything terribly problematic about letting a hydra wear several head slot items. It even comes with its own balance mechanism of sorts since if a head gets chopped off, presumably the item on that head goes with it and would need to be recovered later if it wasn't damaged, stolen, etc.

Of course that introduces a new level of book keeping as you'd have to keep track of what was on which head and which head got cut off. That might or might not be a pain in the... neck.

Maybe make it an optional thing for DMs. Either the Hydra gets 1 head slot because that's the primary head and will be the last one to get chopped off, or it gets head slots = heads and the player has to keep track of what is where and what got chopped off.

Offline bobthe6th

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Re: Hydra
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2012, 11:57:54 PM »
Or just say the slot is around the neck of one of the heads.
though now I am thinking of a hydra in a verity of fancy hats... heh.
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Offline oslecamo

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Re: Hydra
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2012, 05:47:18 AM »
The problem was more that if you have a single head with magic items, it's kinda screaming "hit the weak point for massive damage!", but multiple items that then get chopped off at random feels too cubersome. So went with some middle ground for two head/neck slots and allowing the hydra to "pick up" those as they fall as long as it has enough heads.

Offline Threadnaught

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Re: Hydra
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2013, 08:22:12 PM »
I find it highly amusing how nobody noticed the question of magic items until very recently. :lol

I had the suggestion of allowing the Hydra to unlock additional slots at higher levels, but that would be barely less cumbersome than every head counting.

Offline Draconas

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Re: Hydra
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2013, 10:02:48 AM »
I find it highly amusing how nobody noticed the question of magic items until very recently. :lol

I had the suggestion of allowing the Hydra to unlock additional slots at higher levels, but that would be barely less cumbersome than every head counting.
Actually, I had the idea where you could basically have shields, head stuff, and other items that hydras couldn't normally use enchanted as an amulet(it would wrap around your chest) so it would appear on all the heads, but only count as one item, and if the head was seperated from the body whatever it had on it would just vanish and new versions of the item would appear on any new heads that grow in.(the main reason I thought this up was so the shield bonus would be able to apply to your necks without any arms to wield said shield). But I only got an account recently.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2013, 10:06:34 AM by Draconas »

Offline ketaro

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Re: Hydra
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2016, 07:51:25 PM »
The regrow in heads stuff mentions ithat can regrow more than the base 2 heads after losing 1 head if it takes enough damage in one turn. But just above that dmg table it says it takes 1d4 rounds. So is one of these wrong or is the 1 turn the turn you rolled on the d4. So if you take enough damage to regrow 5 heads, is it supposed to take 1d4 rounds and then 5 heads regrow at once on the turn of the die result?

Or is it something stupid like the ability completely contradicting itself and you get to ignore the 1d4 round delay and instantly spawn half a dozen heads or more immediately after they got cut off?

Also are even spells and aoe effects able to somehow sever heads???
« Last Edit: February 06, 2016, 08:38:00 PM by ketaro »

Offline TC X0 Lt 0X

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Re: Hydra
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2016, 10:34:28 PM »
Also when you are at low enough HP, do you keep losing heads and regrow them later, even when at maximum amount of heads?

I feel like Hydra Ferocity should also maybe account for Critical Hits as well, maybe additional rerolls equal to the crit modifier?
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Offline oslecamo

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Re: Hydra
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2016, 11:10:26 PM »
Added new pic since the older link was dead.

The regrow in heads stuff mentions ithat can regrow more than the base 2 heads after losing 1 head if it takes enough damage in one turn. But just above that dmg table it says it takes 1d4 rounds. So is one of these wrong or is the 1 turn the turn you rolled on the d4. So if you take enough damage to regrow 5 heads, is it supposed to take 1d4 rounds and then 5 heads regrow at once on the turn of the die result?

Or is it something stupid like the ability completely contradicting itself and you get to ignore the 1d4 round delay and instantly spawn half a dozen heads or more immediately after they got cut off?
Each cut head respawns doubled at its each own rate, wording should be more clear now.

Also are even spells and aoe effects able to somehow sever heads???
Yes. Otherwise the hydra's main sthick just wouldn't come up that often.

Also when you are at low enough HP, do you keep losing heads and regrow them later, even when at maximum amount of heads?
No, you only lose heads at the indicated HP tresholds.

I feel like Hydra Ferocity should also maybe account for Critical Hits as well, maybe additional rerolls equal to the crit modifier?
Good idea, added.

Offline Versatility_Nut

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Re: Hydra
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2017, 04:15:09 AM »
Some critiques. I'd prefer fixes to be mechanics wording changes, if implemented. Actual mechanics overhaul isn't really something I expect, but if it inspires something, great.

1. Percentage-based damage thresholds is a bit overcomplicated to work out on the fly, as is fractional thresholds. Generalizing it for d10 HD gets an average of 5+Con, if we round down, which also covers rounding up for d8 HD. This is inaccurate in some cases, but the number of ways that you can boost HP outside of Con are fairly limited, and lost item slots reduce that further. It's a quick, easy approximation that speeds play a lot, instead of forcing the players to recalculate every time max HP changes. Although the reflexive parrying is a weird replacement to the Sunder setup, to me, having one makes sense due to the bookkeeping issues.

2. Why doesn't the Cold elemental Hydra/Cryohydra get the Water subtype? Fire's already an elemental subtype subtype, while Acid gets Earth and Lightning gets Air. Cold is a subtype, but doesn't fit the theme.

3. The slowing of Cold at 2nd level in the PRC doesn't specify whether it's duration, strength or both that stack for the slow, while Fire doesn't have a scaling effect for the 2nd level improvement, which is particularly painful due to Fire being so commonly resisted. Maybe add or replace with taking 1d6 damage per turn for HD rounds on failed Reflex save?

4. Having heads regrow with HP total coming back is, again, a useful workaround to weird gameplay issues. The problem arises with the fact that it replaces the issue of keeping heads for a day with making it optimal to have considerably depleted HP.

5. Hydra Reflexes has a small issue that I though was present for the Fast Healing, but Hydra Healing solves it. That issue is all-or-nothing. With the fast healing, it's either heal the full amount, or nothing. Hydra Healing lets you set how much you heal. Hydra Reflexes, however, gives Combat Reflexes and the ability to use every Bite attack for each AoO. This is insane, because of the fact that it leads to 12 1d10 damage Bite attack every AoO.

6. Forcing all the breath attacks on one target is helpful to balance, but it cuts away the mass-destruction of Cryo/Pyro Hydras by forcing them to stack it all on one target. Which is perfectly fine, given the loss of bookkeeping hell that is keeping track of a dozen cooldowns. I just wish target-splitting was available for it, really. Swap the HD based save DC to being based on breaths overlapping would keep it coherent.

7. I have issues with the wording on the item slot restrictions. I'm fine with being limited to two head/neck slot items, but I kinda wish there was wording saying that you can have one head item and one neck item on each head, but only two of each can be active at a time. Swapping active items requiring removal of associated head, of course, to prevent rapid swapping stuff. Mostly, it's just wanting bling-encrusting of Hydras.

8. Hydra Hunger. Standard Action Full Attack/Full Attack on Charge. Not a good idea, most of the time, especially when the damage involved is a casually attainable 6 attacks at +6 bonus, each dealing 1d10+3 damage. That's average stats. If all hit, then it's an average damage of 63 on a Standard Action attack. Charges get to be one-shot-kills on equal level Hydras, unless there's a heavy disparity of Con on the target and Str on the attacker.

9. Speaking of ability scores making the numbers look horrifying, +1 NA every other level off the per-level ASI is nasty. Sure, getting armor's a pain, but +1 HP/HD, +1 Fort save, +1 NA and +1 to everything else Con related every other level gets crazy. At level 11, that +11 Con means the average HP per level, for racial average, is 10.5 HP per HD. Like, the chassis functionally has all good saves thanks to the Con bonuses.

10. Magic Fangs is a crazy thing for the setup. Assuming that you need to keep a +1 actual bonus, which isn't mentioned, the Hydra can have six heads with Vicious. Meaning half the attacks get +2d6 damage at the cost of 1d6 self damage. Oh, how about Spell Storing, to cram six spells to go off on hit? Or six extra Cleave attempts per round... I suppose six of them with Ghost Touch keeps the thing functional when Incorporeal creatures show up... Though it's still six attacks at basically-full BAB dealing 1d10+Str+whatever damage each.

And... That's about it for critique. Seems a lot of these early ones have poor wording and kinda crazy basic numbers. Oh!

11. Hydra Body doesn't include any racial ability score modifiers. Should it have any of those before actually taking levels?

Offline TC X0 Lt 0X

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Re: Hydra
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2017, 01:58:54 PM »
Ill reply to a few of these:

2) Well the standard 3.4 Cryo Hydra (or at least the SRD one) Only has the Cold Subtype. In general the elemental subtypes are a bit wonky and strange though. Only Cold and Fire grant Immunity and a Weakness, while Air, Earth, and Water do not. And of course Cold and Water overlap slightly sometimes. I would have prefered they made all of them similar to Fire with Immunity and weakness to opposing element, and just merged Cold and Water, but meh what can you do.

6) I agree that splitting would be cool. There is a feat Draconomicon called Split Breath that does similar, but we usually try to avoid relying on anything that isnt SRD or ToB related around here as options to solve issues. The damage is a little wonky being per head as well, but I think the general idea is they really cant produce much damage per head on their own.

7) That sounds like a potential feat to me. Most characters wont have so many items of the same slot, but it can be useful if it comes up. And since the Hydra is going to be wearing a bunch of golf chains and shit, I suggest we should go the comedic route and call the feat Hydra Bling.

11) Ability Score modifiers are usually included separate from the 'Body' class features, usually named 'Ability Increase' or similar. For the Hydra it starts out with +1 Str and Con.
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Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Hydra
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2017, 02:08:15 PM »
I just came here to say:
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