Optimizing Boomerang Daze.

[Sinfire Titan]

So I've been reading too much Eberron material, and I realized how powerful Boomerang Daze and Boomerang Ricochet (RoE) were. And then I saw the Manticore's Sting feat from Dragonmarked, and thought it would work really well with the feat. Except you can't have both.

Except you can. Stoneblessed lets you count as a Dwarf for feat prerequisites, and Boomerang Daze/Stun do not specify your region of origin has to be the Talenta Plains. And the Aptitude quality nicely lets you ignore Manticore's Sting's dagger/darts/shuriken restriction (although the idea is to use Morphing Shurikens to bypass enhancement costs).

And then I read Exotic Weapon Master. Specifically, this part:

Throw Exotic Weapon: The character can throw an exotic weapon with no penalty on the attack roll, even if it isn't designed to be thrown.

Suddenly Manticore's Sting has no penalty on attack rolls. How do you guys like the idea of daze-locking everything within 30ft? Because the save DC for Boomerang Daze is based on your damage output.

Edit: I'm an idiot. Boomerang Daze doesn't require you to be a Halfling, so I can cut out Stoneblessed entirely.

[Solo]

Why would you get Stoneblessed even if it did require you to be a halfling?

[Kethrian]

Manticore Sting, which is basically Manyshot for thrown weapons, requires being a Mror Dwarf.

[Sinfire Titan]

Why would you get Stoneblessed even if it did require you to be a halfling?

What Kethrian said. Basically Stoneblessed allows you to ignore that racial requirement. Being a Talenta Halfling/Xen'Drik Drow does provide access to the Boomerang feats as Fighter bonus feats, as they are General feats otherwise.

[snakeman830]

Why would you get Stoneblessed even if it did require you to be a halfling?

What Kethrian said. Basically Stoneblessed allows you to ignore that racial requirement. Being a Talenta Halfling/Xen'Drik Drow does provide access to the Boomerang feats as Fighter bonus feats, as they are General feats otherwise.

If I'm not mistaken, simply being from Xen'Drik or Talenta Plains lets you use the associated boomerang as a martial weapon.

[Sinfire Titan]

Why would you get Stoneblessed even if it did require you to be a halfling?

What Kethrian said. Basically Stoneblessed allows you to ignore that racial requirement. Being a Talenta Halfling/Xen'Drik Drow does provide access to the Boomerang feats as Fighter bonus feats, as they are General feats otherwise.

If I'm not mistaken, simply being from Xen'Drik or Talenta Plains lets you use the associated boomerang as a martial weapon.

Unfortunately, Manticore's Sting requires you to be from Mror. AFAIK, there's no way around regional requirements even if you can ignore the racial ones (barring a really stupid interpretation of an Acorn of Far Travel).

[SorO_Lost]

(barring a really stupid interpretation of an Acorn of Far Travel).

That really shouldn't stop you given your comment about Exotic Weapon Master, which that reminds me you should look at the rest of the entries. Exotic Weapon Master all intended ranged stunts use "ranged [exotic] weapon" while "exotic weapon" references melee. Unless you are going to claim if you shoot an arrow and fail your Trip attempt you can drop your bow.

Trip Attack: The character can use a one-handed or two handed exotic weapon to make a trip attack. If he is tripped during his own trip attempt, he can drop the weapon to avoid being tripped. If the exotic weapon already allows its wielder to make trip attacks, the character instead adds a +2 bonus on any trip attempt.

Anyway, EWM aside Manticore's Sting is pretty meh. It's the thrown version of Manyshot and just like it you cannot combine it with TWF, Haste, Raging Mongoose, etc. For a BAB of 16 you get four, and only four, attacks. I'd drop it.

And then I'd also look into Bloodstorm Blade. While you can't combine Boomerang Ricochet with Strikes once enough targets are whittled down you can effectively use your favorite ToB Strikes with Boomerang Daze. Bloodstorm's 4th level Ability immediately returns your thrown weapon back, Returning waits until next round, which allows you to Full-Attack off the same weapon drastically saving you a ton of gold by only having to Enhance one weapon rather than four or more. And it's 10th level Ability allows you to retrain Ricochet out for something else as you can burn two Maneuvers to attack any number of targets.

[Fadier]

And then I'd also look into Bloodstorm Blade. While you can't combine Boomerang Ricochet with Strikes once enough targets are whittled down you can effectively use your favorite ToB Strikes with Boomerang Daze. Bloodstorm's 4th level Ability immediately returns your thrown weapon back, Returning waits until next round, which allows you to Full-Attack off the same weapon drastically saving you a ton of gold by only having to Enhance one weapon rather than four or more. And it's 10th level Ability allows you to retrain Ricochet out for something else as you can burn two Maneuvers to attack any number of targets.

You're missing the 2nd level ability which allows for power attacking with your throwing weapons, good luck with the save vs daze with a full power attack hit.

Get the 5th level of Master Thrower for touch attacks with your boomerangs and wait for all the daze immune creatures your GM tosses at you.

[Fadier]

I figured I might as well post a build I have had floating around for years.

Deep Halfling
Warblade 1/Fighter 2 (Drow Fighter)/Warblade +1/Swashbuckler 1/Bloodstorm Blade 3/Master Thrower 5/Bloodstorm Blade +7 (or other classes)

Feats:
1: Power Attack
2: PBS - Fighter
3: WF (Boomerang), Precise Shot - Fighter
5: Weapon Finesse - Swashbuckler
6: Boomerang Daze, Throw Anything - BsB
8: Boomerang Ricochet - BsB
9: Quick Draw - MT, Rapid Shot, Thrown Weapon Trick: Trip Shot
11: Thrown Weapon Trick: Two with One Blow
12: Snatch Arrows - MT, Weapon Specialization
13: Improved Critical - MT
15: Ranged Weapon Mastery
16: Crushing Strike - BsB

Starting stats are 13 Str and as much Dex as you can.

With Thrown Weapon Trick (Weak Spot) and Thunderous Throw (BsB 2) you full attack with touch attacks and PA at full power. Thrown Weapon Trick (Trip Shot) gives you a free trip attempt on each hit, if you trip them you get a +4 on your other attacks for hitting with a melee weapon against a prone target.

At level 16 you're power attacking 5 times, 20 if the target is next to another. Crushing Strike improves your to hit with each hit.
The damage for each shot is 1d3 + 32 (PA) + 1 (PBS) + 2 (WS) + 2 (RWM) for a save DC of 39


See if you can nab the Gloves of Endless Javelins (MIC 194) and swap the javelins for boomerangs.

[Sinfire Titan]

That really shouldn't stop you given your comment about Exotic Weapon Master, which that reminds me you should look at the rest of the entries. Exotic Weapon Master all intended ranged stunts use "ranged [exotic] weapon" while "exotic weapon" references melee. Unless you are going to claim if you shoot an arrow and fail your Trip attempt you can drop your bow.

It is RAW. The Acorn comment was because that spell's effect doesn't have any text allowing the idea of bypassing regional requirements for feats (just spells). EWM may be intended for melee weapons, but the text for that particular ability doesn't really care what kind you use (as long as you're willing to compromise on the range).

Anyway, EWM aside Manticore's Sting is pretty meh. It's the thrown version of Manyshot and just like it you cannot combine it with TWF, Haste, Raging Mongoose, etc. For a BAB of 16 you get four, and only four, attacks. I'd drop it.

Considered.

And then I'd also look into Bloodstorm Blade. While you can't combine Boomerang Ricochet with Strikes once enough targets are whittled down you can effectively use your favorite ToB Strikes with Boomerang Daze. Bloodstorm's 4th level Ability immediately returns your thrown weapon back, Returning waits until next round, which allows you to Full-Attack off the same weapon drastically saving you a ton of gold by only having to Enhance one weapon rather than four or more. And it's 10th level Ability allows you to retrain Ricochet out for something else as you can burn two Maneuvers to attack any number of targets.

Hadn't considered BSB's abilities at all. Now including it.

[Jackinthegreen]

Snakeman had a BSB build involving boomerang daze here:  http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=12015.0

[zook1shoe]

I've always thought Aptitude made Boomerang Daze, among others, absolutely insane!

[Solo]

Tell the truth, Sinfire: Did you post this to coincide with Suicide Squad?

[Kethrian]

I've always thought Aptitude made Boomerang Daze, among others, absolutely insane!

Would both Boomerang Daze and Boomerang Ricochet work if you used an Aptitude longbow?  Or just Aptitude thrown weapons?

[Sinfire Titan]

Tell the truth, Sinfire: Did you post this to coincide with Suicide Squad?

Actually no, but I did go and see it yesterday.

I've always thought Aptitude made Boomerang Daze, among others, absolutely insane!

Would both Boomerang Daze and Boomerang Ricochet work if you used an Aptitude longbow?  Or just Aptitude thrown weapons?

It does look like it would, for the same reasons as Lightning Mace.

[zook1shoe]

Roundabout Kick stacks w Lightning Maces

[snakeman830]

Snakeman had a BSB build involving boomerang daze here:  http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=12015.0

Yeah, I remember him.  Was one of my favorite exercises.