Author Topic: Unearthed Arcana: Revised Subclasses (Barbarian, Bard, Fighter, Monk, Sorcerer)  (Read 6152 times)

Offline TenaciousJ

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http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/revised-subclasses

This UA article revises:
Path of the Ancients
College of Swords
Arcane Archer
Way of the Kensei
Favored Soul

Also remember to do the survey on last week's racial feats.

First thoughts:

Way of the Kensei looks coherent now.  GWM shenanigans are gone, Sharpshooter shenanigans are not.  This does ranged monk better than Sun Soul now.

College of Swords looks differentiated from College of Valor and has a slight edge in pure melee ability that does not rely on casting.  It gets to use its gimmick essentially as an upgraded Extra Attack.

Arcane Archer still doesn't let you use the magical arrows often enough, but at least you cannot waste the special arrows on misses now.  It's still going to be really boring outside of the 2 special arrows per short rest.

Path of the Ancients looks better at what it does and brings stronger utility.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 08:42:25 PM by TenaciousJ »
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Offline TenaciousJ

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Path of the Ancestral Guardian is easier to use and understand.  Ancestral Protectors now applies to the first creature you attack rather than using a bonus action so it applies on the same turn you rage and does not conflict with things like PAM or two-weapon fighting.  Spirit Shield will do a better job of keeping the group alive than Ancestral Shield since you don't have to take the damage you're preventing on someone else, and it applies to more types of attacks.  The new Consult the Spirits is more likely to accomplish something than the old one since Intelligence and Wisdom aren't the highest priorities for barbarians.  Vengeful Ancestors now does respectable damage for a level 14 reaction.  It will need some clarification on what type of damage it does now.

College of Swords is probably overall nerfed, but the design is more coherent.  The first one had conflicting designs with the emphasis on two-weapon fighting combined with Battle Magic and the base class using bonus actions well already.  The new design ditches that conflict and gives the option to focus on a single weapon, but that option doesn't mean as much with Battle Magic gone.  Master's Flourish is nice for letting this archetype use its gimmick more, at least.  I doubt anyone will miss Trick Shooter's flourish, but the loss of Unnerving Flourish hurts.  Mobile Flourish is a nice addition.

Arcane Archer changes:

-Create Magic Arrow is gone.  You can buff any nonmagical arrow to +1 when you attack.
-Arcane Shots apply when you hit with an attack with an arrow you buffed to +1.
-Archer's Lore is now more limited.
-Curving Shot is a new feature that replaced the old Conjure Arrows.
-Deadly Arrow is gone and its effect has been folded into the descriptions of each Arcane Shot.
-Beguiling Arrow removed
-Banishing Arrow added
-Brute Bane Arrow now halves the damage of ALL attacks, not just physical damage. Now has a Con save
-Bursting Arrow unchanged
-Defending Arrow removed
-Grasping Arrow changed from a DC 10 Strength check to a Strength(Athletics) check vs. your Arcane Arrow DC
-Mind Scrambling Arrow added, fills the same function as Beguiling Arrow
-Piercing Arrow is a Dex save instead of individual attack rolls on each affected creature
-Seeking Arrow is now a Dex save instead of an attack. You no longer need to be within line of sight to learn the enemy's location.
-Shadow Arrow now has a Wis save to avoid the effect, but the sight limitation is reduced to 5 ft., making it more effective.

Kensei weapons are now monk weapons, but heavy weapons other than the longbow are not allowed.  Because they are all monk weapons, they do martial arts damage if martial arts damage is higher.  Hand crossbows are the best kensei weapons now.  With Sharpshooter and Crossbow Expert, kensei has the potential for:

With Sharpen the Blade pre-buffed, you could potentially make an attack for 1d10 (weapon) +5 (Dex) +10 (Sharpshooter) +3 (Sharpen the Blade) twice with Extra Attack and a bonus action attack via Crossbow Expert.  One attack can also get Precision Strike for an extra 1d10.  That would average 76 damage in a round.  Not bad for a self-contained martial build, and a big step up for a single-classed monk build.

Favored Soul gains Cure Wounds as a bonus spell known.  It loses Blessed Countenance for Empowered Healing (net loss IMO) and loses Divine Purity for Angelic Form (a net buff, regaining one of the better features of the first incarnation).
« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 10:34:11 PM by TenaciousJ »
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Offline SorO_Lost

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3d10 (weapon) +15 (dex mod) +30 (Sharpshooter) +1d10 (Precision Strike) + 9 (Sharpen the Blade) for 76 average damage.  Not bad for a self-contained martial build.
o.O
Quote
Sharpen the Blade
At 11th level, you gain the ability to augment your weapons further with your ki. As a bonus action, you can expend up to 3 ki points to grant one kensei weapon you touch a bonus to attack and damage rolls when you attack with it. The bonus equals the number of ki points you spent. This bonus lasts for 1 minute or until you use this feature again.
I think you need to change the format on your dice, instead of 3d10+45 leaving everyone going wtf try 1d10, +5 dex, +10 sharp, +3 sharpen, x2 extra attack, then +1d10 precision or something. Which speaking of, Martial Arts & Flurry of Blows are Unarmed so I'm pretty sure you need Crossbow Expert or some version of Haste to fire again for that third attack which also conflicts with Sharpen's Bonus Action.

Offline sambojin

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Ancestral Guardian's Spirit Shield really does imply that it means "not you", but you ARE a creature within 30' of yourself and you can usually see you, so...... It's a fairly nice whack of damage reduction for other party members anyway, but it's especially nice if you can have it work on yourself (especially in combination with Vengeful Ancestors).

Offline TenaciousJ

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3d10 (weapon) +15 (dex mod) +30 (Sharpshooter) +1d10 (Precision Strike) + 9 (Sharpen the Blade) for 76 average damage.  Not bad for a self-contained martial build.
o.O
Quote
Sharpen the Blade
At 11th level, you gain the ability to augment your weapons further with your ki. As a bonus action, you can expend up to 3 ki points to grant one kensei weapon you touch a bonus to attack and damage rolls when you attack with it. The bonus equals the number of ki points you spent. This bonus lasts for 1 minute or until you use this feature again.
I think you need to change the format on your dice, instead of 3d10+45 leaving everyone going wtf try 1d10, +5 dex, +10 sharp, +3 sharpen, x2 extra attack, then +1d10 precision or something. Which speaking of, Martial Arts & Flurry of Blows are Unarmed so I'm pretty sure you need Crossbow Expert or some version of Haste to fire again for that third attack which also conflicts with Sharpen's Bonus Action.

I referenced Crossbow Expert and Sharpshooter in the last line above the part you quoted.  No one really talks about hand crossbows without Crossbow Expert because they're inferior without it.  Formatting aside, it's 3 attacks in a theoretical situation after turn 1 because of Crossbow Expert.  Drop off Sharpen the Blade if you want a theoretical max for turn 1.  I'll change it for clarity.
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Offline bruceleeroy

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Looks like sharpen the blade stacks with a magic weapon, eh?
Normally, I would be reading this, open the reply box, decide what I had to say didn't need said, and close out. But this is just too ridiculous.



Offline TenaciousJ

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^^^

I'm sure that's intentional to give kensei some kind of edge.  Accuracy isn't the worst gimmick to have.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 01:24:06 PM by TenaciousJ »
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Offline SorO_Lost

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It really isn't given some of the major bosses, like Tiamat, run pretty high.

Offline TenaciousJ

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Something has been bothering me about Cunning Flourish.  Why isn't it just Extra Attack, and why isn't Blade Flourish just a rider on the Attack action?  I suppose it prevents multiclass builds from abusing, but I cannot see a stand-out multiclass for College of Swords even if Blade Flourish did work with Extra Attack.

Since Blade Flourish doesn't use the Attack action, it doesn't work with two-weapon fighting.  Since the archetype doesn't have Extra Attack, two-weapon fighting style is pointless from level 6 and beyond.  That seems like an oversight for the survey on this UA.
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Offline 8wGremlin

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Blade flourish isn't an attack action:
So how is this abusable, how does it interact with spells and feats?
anything come up?

Offline TenaciousJ

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It's not an Attack action, but it requires an action to use rather than being a rider on an attack.  So that rules out Haste, SCAG cantrips, or any reaction abilities.  The only thing I can think of it working with is Action Surge.  I think the poor interaction with two-weapon fighting is an oversight.
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Offline TenaciousJ

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Ancestral Guardian's Spirit Shield really does imply that it means "not you", but you ARE a creature within 30' of yourself and you can usually see you, so...... It's a fairly nice whack of damage reduction for other party members anyway, but it's especially nice if you can have it work on yourself (especially in combination with Vengeful Ancestors).

http://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/05/03/can-the-spirit-shield-on-the-path-of-the-ancestral-guardian-be-used-on-himself/

Good news, it's legitimate.
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Offline sambojin

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I wonder if this brings any more interesting interactions in of things that were considered "for others", but are now definitely "or you as well"?

*Ally* tends to mean others, not you (which is a big difference from PF rules), but there might be some other things that are now a bit better that have squeaked by us.

Huzzah for Rules Lawyering!

Offline sambojin

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The dumbest one I can find so far is: Casting Hex on yourself if you have the Lucky feat to ping off "super advantage" on an ability check.

But there's probably plenty of others that are more obscure, as I'm pretty sure others thought of this one ages ago.

Offline TenaciousJ

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I wonder if this brings any more interesting interactions in of things that were considered "for others", but are now definitely "or you as well"?

*Ally* tends to mean others, not you (which is a big difference from PF rules), but there might be some other things that are now a bit better that have squeaked by us.

Huzzah for Rules Lawyering!

Spirit Shield doesn't say "ally" in the sentence describing the mechanics. The crux of the argument is that it says "If you are raging and a creature you can see within 30 feet of you takes damage..." and that you're generally able to see yourself.  This ruling doesn't lend any extra meaning to "ally" as a mechanical term, since it only references "allies" in  text that gives a flavor description to the ability.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2017, 06:24:08 PM by TenaciousJ »
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