New Fighter Revision [D&D 3.5]

[Ziegander]

The Fighter



Alignment: Any
Hit Die: 1d12

Level	BAB	Fort	Ref	Will	Special	Craft Reserve
1st	+1	+2	+2	+2	Bonus Feat, Master Craftsman, Pack Mule, Weapon Aptitude	5
2nd	+2	+3	+3	+3	Maneuvers (1st)	10
3rd	+3	+3	+3	+3	Bonus Feat	20
4th	+4	+4	+4	+4	Maneuvers (2nd)	40
5th	+5	+4	+4	+4	Bonus Feat	60
6th	+6/+1	+5	+5	+5	Maneuvers (3rd)	80
7th	+7/+2	+5	+5	+5	Bonus Feat	100
8th	+8/+3	+6	+6	+6	Maneuvers (4th)	150
9th	+9/+4	+6	+6	+6	Bonus Feat	200
10th	+10/+5	+7	+7	+7	Maneuvers (5th)	250
11th	+11/+6/+1	+7	+7	+7	Bonus Feat	300
12th	+12/+7/+2	+8	+8	+8	Maneuvers (6th)	400
13th	+13/+8/+3	+8	+8	+8	Bonus Feat	500
14th	+14/+9/+4	+9	+9	+9	Maneuvers (7th)	700
15th	+15/+10/+5	+9	+9	+9	Bonus Feat	900
16th	+16/+11/+6/+1	+10	+10	+10	Maneuvers (8th)	1200
17th	+17/+12/+7/+2	+10	+10	+10	Bonus Feat	1500
18th	+18/+13/+8/+3	+11	+11	+11	Maneuvers (9th)	2000
19th	+19/+14/+9/+4	+11	+11	+11	Bonus Feat	2500
20th	+20/+15/+10/+5	+12	+12	+12	Lord of the Battlefield	3000

Class Skills (6+Int modifier): Appraise, Balance, Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Escape Artist, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Local), Listen, Profession, Ride, Search, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Spot, Swim, and Tumble.

Weapon & Armor Proficiencies
A Fighter is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, all armors, and all shields.

Bonus Feats
At1st level and every two levels thereafter, a Fighter gains a bonus feat from the list of Fighter Bonus Feats. He must meet all prerequisites of any feat gained in this way except for ability score requirements. Once per day, as long as the Fighter has gotten 8 hours of rest, after 1 hour of practice, he may choose to lose all Fighter Bonus Feats gained in this way to gain an equal number of new Fighter Bonus Feats that he meets the prerequisites for (ignoring ability score requirements).

Craft Reserve
A Fighter receives a pool of points he can spend instead of experience points when crafting a magic item. Each time the Fighter gains a new level, he receives a new craft reserve; leftover points from the previous level do not carry over. A Fighter can use his craft reserve to supplement the XP cost of the item he is making, taking a portion of the cost from his craft reserve and a portion from his own XP.

Points not spent instead of XP may be exchanged for gold pieces at a rate of 1 Craft Reserve point to 10 GP.

Master Craftsman (Ex): Whenever a Fighter crafts an item he may use magical tools and/or materials in order to create a magic item. When he does, he has an effective caster level equal to his Fighter level and may ignore any prerequisite spells needed to create the item so long as the spell is of a level no higher than 1/2 his Fighter levels rounded up. A Fighter does not need Item Creation feats when using this ability.

When creating magic items the Fighter crafts a masterwork item using magical tools and/or materials, making the appropriate Craft skill checks against the item's market value as a mundane item not a magic item. This costs the Fighter 1/2 the finished item's market value in GP for the materials and 1/25 the finished item's market value in XP.

For example, if the Fighter wanted to create a Boat of Folding (CL 6), he would need to be at least 6th level or higher and build a masterwork boat with Craft (Woodworking) skill checks. Without some way to produce a Fabricate spell, he would need to be 9th level before he could craft the Boat of Folding.

This ability allows the Fighter to craft alchemical items as though he were a spellcaster. This ability can not be used to create spell completion or spell trigger items.

Pack Mule (Ex): Fighters are used to long journeys with a heavy pack and the use of a wide variety of weaponry and equipment. A Fighter suffers no penalties for carrying a medium load, and may retrieve any stored item from his person as a move action that doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity.

Weapon Aptitude (Ex): A Fighter applies any weapon-specific feats he has to all weapons he wields, not simply the particular weapon designated by the feat. This allows him to apply the benefit of feats such as Weapon Focus, Three Mountains Style, or Boomerang Daze to any weapon.

Maneuvers
Starting at 2nd level, a Fighter's expertise in the theatre of war allows him to pull off flashy maneuvers in the midst of combat. Once per round, if his attack roll beats an enemy's AC by 5 or more, the Fighter may treat that attack as any initiated martial Strike up to the level listed in the table above from one of the following disciplines: Melee - Diamond Mind, Iron Heart, Tiger Claw, or White Raven; Ranged - Falling Star, or Thunder Bolt.

A Fighter has an initiator level equal to his class level and does not need to know, ready, expend, or recover Strikes initiated in this way.

Lord of the Battlefield (Ex): A 20th level Fighter is never surprised, never flat-footed, and cannot be flanked. If he threatens a creature with less Base Attack Bonus than it has HD, then that creature is flat-footed and considered flanked by the Fighter and all of his allies regardless of their actual positions.

When the Fighter hits with an attack of opportunity the struck creature must make a Reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 Fighter level + Dexterity modifier) to avoid being struck by an automatic confirmed critical hit.

[Ziegander]

It has been pointed out to me that this Fighter revision is rather front loaded, probably mostly because of the Master Craftsman feature. Would anyone else agree? I tried to avoid this being an issue by requiring Fighter levels to "unlock" new levels of spells the Fighter may ignore, but are there a bunch of magic items that don't require any spells to create that I'm missing? Does Master Craftsman seem too powerful to anyone? This is basically a watered down and powered down version of the "Tier 1 Fightificer" I wrote over at GitP, and I was hoping it reached, at best, a mid-Tier 3 rating.

[Wilb]

   The problem that the Master Craftsman feature shows is just that by taking the fighter level without the intention of ignoring spell requirements is just incredibly abusive. A full caster can just lose a level and get to craft everything that doesn't fall into the built in limitations (that just cover spell trigger and completion items), that's why I suggest giving a progression on usable schools (something like 1 every 3 or 4 levels, probably with differing caster levels for crafting purpose, like focusing on the first school or something like that), or tighten the limitation on crafting, so that this won't be used as the ultimate noncaster crafting dip.
   Another possibility would be to give the fighter SR according to the schools he can or cannot craft items from. Or even letting him "channel" spells through weapons he crafted in the same fashion as a maneuver (though these spells should be those used to craft the item, to create an aspect of "tapping into the item's true power" as he would know, having created them himself). But I don't know if this would meet the criteria used to design this class, but those remain as suggestions.  If you see the class as something else, please do tell and point in that direction so that I can suggest something better.

[Ziegander]

   The problem that the Master Craftsman feature shows is just that by taking the fighter level without the intention of ignoring spell requirements is just incredibly abusive. A full caster can just lose a level and get to craft everything that doesn't fall into the built in limitations (that just cover spell trigger and completion items), that's why I suggest giving a progression on usable schools (something like 1 every 3 or 4 levels, probably with differing caster levels for crafting purpose, like focusing on the first school or something like that), or tighten the limitation on crafting, so that this won't be used as the ultimate noncaster crafting dip.

I just don't know where you're getting the dip from. A character takes only a single level in Fighter can ignore spell requirements for 1st level spells only. Said character wouldn't be able to craft any item that requires a spell higher than 1st level or a caster level higher than 1. The only items I can even think of that can be crafted with caster level 1 are scrolls, which is strictly forbidden by the Master Craftsman feature.

[Wilb]

   Ok, now I am seeing it. The feature locks the caster level to the levels in the fighter class when used, and so avoids being used by spellcasters who dip fighter. I just didn't catch that spot, seeing only the part in which the fighter could ignore the spells required and creation feats.

   Sorry, my bad.

[Ziegander]

Sorry, my bad.

It's okay, I was just worried that I had left some strange loophole in the wording. What do you think of the Maneuvers class feature?

[Wilb]

   I think it's just what a fighter needs, much needed variety in battle instead of I attack again (with no barbarian awesomeness). But I believe the immense bookeeping will scare weaker souls (which may not be a bad thing, as wizards show), while their power stays medium, I believe.  Gives them a better control of saving throws, but bfc stays at minimal value.

   Maybe you could give him small bonuses or new features related to combat maneuvers, as free improved bull rush, maneuver activation after tripping succesfully, or any kind of ability besides its "castery" progression.

   _{(I think I'll try to cobble up a version which uses it's crafted items spells as I said, maybe as a variant of yours, if you allow, or a prestige class for it, basically I envision a guy who crafts his own stuff without magical help and can channel the spells used in their creation through them, just like what was done here with maneuvers)}

[Ziegander]

_{(I think I'll try to cobble up a version which uses it's crafted items spells as I said, maybe as a variant of yours, if you allow, or a prestige class for it, basically I envision a guy who crafts his own stuff without magical help and can channel the spells used in their creation through them, just like what was done here with maneuvers)}

I think that sort of thing would be great as a variant or Prestige Class, and I really like the idea and the flavor, I just didn't think it was proper for the base class to have something like that built in. I approve!

[McLuvin]

Sorry if I sound stupid and I know this is a open game but where are these stats from? I am new to the DnD world.... I am joining a bunch of my friends and wanted to make a fighter. This is way different than what is in my old hand me down book. If this is a new revision from WotC Please point me there.

[xaotiq1]

Sorry if I sound stupid and I know this is a open game but where are these stats from? I am new to the DnD world.... I am joining a bunch of my friends and wanted to make a fighter. This is way different than what is in my old hand me down book. If this is a new revision from WotC Please point me there.

No, this is home brewed by the Jim Koch of D&D, Ziegander. But it is a damn nice step up from the PHB fighter. If your DM is flexible, try to at least have him consider the Warblade from Book of Nine Swords. It is quite nice also.

[Ziegander]

Sorry if I sound stupid and I know this is a open game but where are these stats from? I am new to the DnD world.... I am joining a bunch of my friends and wanted to make a fighter. This is way different than what is in my old hand me down book. If this is a new revision from WotC Please point me there.

No, no, this is a creation of mine, and not at all affiliated with Wizards of the Coast. If you're new to the D&D world, you want to stay far, far away from the Homebrew and House Rules subforum here at minmaxboards. Everything "homebrew" is something made up by D&D players, and not something actually published or written by anyone from WotC.

What edition of D&D do you play? Being new to D&D, it would be quite a surprise to me if you said you play AD&D or D&D 2nd Edition. I would also be marginally surprised if you told me you play D&D 3rd Edition or D&D 3.5. The newest published edition of D&D is 4th Edition, and the rules between different editions of the game are widely different. This homebrewed version of the Fighter was designed, again, by me, for D&D 3.5 edition, because the Fighter class in D&D 3.5 is woefully weak compared to other classes in that edition.

No, this is home brewed by the Jim Koch of D&D, Ziegander.

What a poetic and very fine thing for you to say of me! Thank you very much!

*takes a bow*

[McLuvin]

My group that I am jumping into is 3.5 Ed. And to make it worse they have already reached lvl 11. Most have started a paragon path.

[Ziegander]

My group that I am jumping into is 3.5 Ed. And to make it worse they have already reached lvl 11. Most have started a paragon path.

Paragon Paths don't exist in D&D 3.5, so perhaps you mean Prestige Class? In D&D 4th Edition, all characters pick up a Paragon Path at 11th level, but in D&D 3.5, Prestige Classes are optional.

It would probably be to your benefit to post a new thread HERE, in the general D&D 3.5 & Pathfinder board, titled something along the lines of, "New to D&D, Need Help." If you're still learning the game, joining at 11th level is going to be really difficult. The optimization-minded folks around here are really knowledgeable about the game, but aren't always the most helpful to true novices.

My advice to you would be to play something really simple for your first session, maybe a single-classes Barbarian, to learn the ropes.

Ah, I just read your introduction thread, and it sounds like you've played at least a few sessions of D&D so far. Still, joining a game at 11th level will be challenging.

[McLuvin]

I was just searching through the Internet to see how people build a fighter at that level to get ideas. Them I ran into your post and was curious if that was a new revision. I would have to do some changes and The lvl progression is way better.

[Sinfire Titan]

Be warned, a lot of DMs have issues with accepting homebrew. I know there are a lot of people who would see the chasis of Ziegander's Fighter fix, flip out, and ban it on the spot. If you are thinking about using this fix, present it to your DM and have him review it. If he doesn't like it, please have him post here and discuss his feelings on the fix with us.

Ziegander has always been a solid source of balanced homebrew classes and abilities, and this fix offers a wonderful power boost to one of 3.5's weakest classes. Given that you are starting at level 11, you are going to need a fix similar to this one in order to make use of the Fighter class at all, or a serious amount of optimization.

Finally, it isn't just the DM you need to worry about when presenting this homebrew class: Other players may take issue with it, especially if you begin hogging the spotlight or doing something they are trying to do. Be sure to coordinate with your party regarding what classes they are taking before/if you settle on this Fighter fix, because failing to get the point across means they may start bitching about it or potentially kick you out of the group (although this is a worst-case scenario).

[McLuvin]

 I have tried to build a fighter and thought it could be better in comparison. When I saw this layout I was like it is balanced out to the rest. I may post mine to show what I chose... Depending on if thi is the place to share it.

[Amechra]

Welcome, McLuvin, to our humble abode on the forums.

A funny note, Ziegander (who I still want to call bkdubs, by the way); I actually started playing DnD only about 2 years ago, and I've only been playing 3rd edition for about a year.

Yep, I started with 1st Edition.

Other than that, looks pretty nice; it would be nice if you could make Warheart items, though...