D&D - Competitive or Cooperative?

[ImperatorK]

Which is it?

[ariasderros]

To answer your question simply: It depends on the individual and the group.

Less simply:
Whether video or P&P, people game the way they live. Some people play cooperatively, some people don't.

I am of the opinion that D&D plays best when all of the players are of the cooperative variety. Both in and out of character.

When it comes to the DM, I think is is all about making sure it is challenging, but not overwhelming. Using Gygaxian (1HP short of TPK = good) logic for major or final bosses, and the DM's dirty little secret (you're on the players side) logic the rest of the time.

I will admit that there is a lot of potential in the concept of in-party conflict, where team members compete with on another. But in my experience, anything more than the Legolas vs Gimli kill-count quickly ruins the game, instead of enriching it. Some players can't even take the kill-count type of competition in good fun.

[wotmaniac]

To answer your question simply: It depends on the individual and the group.

Less simply:
Whether video or P&P, people game the way they live. Some people play cooperatively, some people don't.

I am of the opinion that D&D plays best when all of the players are of the cooperative variety. Both in and out of character.

When it comes to the DM, I think is is all about making sure it is challenging, but not overwhelming. Using Gygaxian (1HP short of TPK = good) logic for major or final bosses, and the DM's dirty little secret (you're on the players side) logic the rest of the time.

I will admit that there is a lot of potential in the concept of in-party conflict, where team members compete with on another. But in my experience, anything more than the Legolas vs Gimli kill-count quickly ruins the game, instead of enriching it. Some players can't even take the kill-count type of competition in good fun.

not sure I can really add anything to this.
Just wanted to say "+1".

[SneeR]

I once played a paranoid rogue who was jumped by the party for stealing more loot than she deserved. After that, she often attempted to kill them in their sleep. The whole thing devolved into my character running away every night to spend their money when she realized she couldn't kill them as revenge.

Sucked in that regard. Ruined an awesome game.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

...  ... I've "fantasized" about a C.O. vs. C.O. arena fight.

Team A = pick 5 CO big shots
Team B = pick 5 more CO big shots, preferably with a little antagonism between the groups

Team DM = pick 5 more to DM. 1 head DM and 2 per Team to monitor the craziness.
Both help DMs per team can ferry inside info to the announcer 


I wanna announce it.
You know, like the breathless dudes on MMA  ... "OH HE ROCKED HIM WITH THAT X_______ !!"

[caelic]

3.5's not the best system for that, just because it's SO wide open.  It's not a question of "Who can make the most powerful character?"--anyone who's been on the boards for any length of time knows that the most powerful character is infinitely powerful, and the question is "How powerful a character do you want to make?"

In order to stop the contest from being a universe-rending conflict of Pun Puns and Omniscificers, you'd have to put pretty strict limits on the parameters.

[linklord231]

...  ... I've "fantasized" about a C.O. vs. C.O. arena fight.

Team A = pick 5 CO big shots
Team B = pick 5 more CO big shots, preferably with a little antagonism between the groups

Team DM = pick 5 more to DM. 1 head DM and 2 per Team to monitor the craziness.
Both help DMs per team can ferry inside info to the announcer 


I wanna announce it.
You know, like the breathless dudes on MMA  ... "OH HE ROCKED HIM WITH THAT X_______ !!"

This... sounds REALLY fun.  If only we could watch live...

[sirpercival]

It should be team arena -- then the question isn't just "how powerful a character", it's also a question of how much intraparty synergy the team members can manage.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

... and the DM awards some    anytime someone manages to pull something off.
Then immediately nerfs it.


Round 1 battle starts ...
Dude 1A: I try to Take 10 on a Knowledge Planes check.
DM : no take 10 in the middle of combat
Dude 1A : (pouty face)

Round 5 of battle ...
Dude 1A: I tell Pazuzu to give me a Candle
DM: Pazuzu just got hit by a Skip Rock, so he's a little busy right now.
Dude 1A: (pouty face)

[Tiltowait]

What sort of competition are you referring to here?

[dman11235]

Even when it's competative, it's cooperative.  The game is a way for friends to get together and have a good time, and that's always cooperative, even when it's PVP, or PvDM.

[veekie]

Yeah, the basic unspoken rule, and the GM's dirty secret, everyone is there to have fun, and to work towards that goal.

[bhu]

Yeah, the basic unspoken rule, and the GM's dirty secret, everyone is there to have fun, and to work towards that goal.

Outside of Pbp I have never played in a group where this held true

[SneeR]

Yeah, the basic unspoken rule, and the GM's dirty secret, everyone is there to have fun, and to work towards that goal.

Outside of Pbp I have never played in a group where this held true

Please post something of this in the Horror Stories thread, because I am curious how this is possible. Why would people play a game without the intent of having fun?

[Jackinthegreen]

Yeah, the basic unspoken rule, and the GM's dirty secret, everyone is there to have fun, and to work towards that goal.

Outside of Pbp I have never played in a group where this held true

Please post something of this in the Horror Stories thread, because I am curious how this is possible. Why would people play a game without the intent of having fun?

People will tend to play with fun on their minds, but we all know one person's fun is another's torture.  Even when it does turn up, some people will stick around even if they're being "tortured" for various reasons like not wanting to leave the group hanging and such.

[bhu]

Yeah, the basic unspoken rule, and the GM's dirty secret, everyone is there to have fun, and to work towards that goal.

Outside of Pbp I have never played in a group where this held true

Please post something of this in the Horror Stories thread, because I am curious how this is possible. Why would people play a game without the intent of having fun?

Most of the DM's i know in real life run games purely for their fun.  If you happen to incidentally enjoy the ride that's okay but its never necessary.   Some of the others idea of fun is deliberately fucking with the players or their characters to see how they react.  And of course it's a small town so the number of DM's is limited.

The players aren't much better.  Each has his own idea of how roleplaying is to be done, or a different aspect of the game they enjoy and they quite brutally and openly fight amongst themselves and with the DM to get their own way.

In short in my experience outside of Pbp, gaming is largely a massive pissing contest involving sociopaths with easily bruised egos.  They're also somewhat masochistic in that they know that they have few if any peers besides their frenemies in gaming that would accept their eccentricities so they keep coming back.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Pretenders --- I went back to Ohio, my tune was Limbaugh's theme song ...