Fun finds thread V3.0

[Amechra]

Jungle's Rapture is nasty. Not just because it's a bitch to dispel, and it deals 1d6 Dexterity Drain each day that it is in effect, and that it turns you into a plant (which is generally less curable than death.)

Nope, it isn't nasty because of any of those; it's nasty because it renders you unable to digest food. Hope you've grabbed some means of surviving without food!

Didn't you hear? D&D characters never die of starvation, they just fall asleep forever and ever.

But seriously, though, you've got 3 days before anything happens, then it's a ~50% chance of 1d6 nonlethal (unhealable) per day. The Dex drain will get you before you notice the lack of food.

I know that it will barely do anything, it's just a dick move.

(Note to self: homebrew stuff that makes starvation worse.)

[Prime32]

Nope, it isn't nasty because of any of those; it's nasty because it renders you unable to digest food. Hope you've grabbed some means of surviving without food!

Note that once you reach the levels that this spell would be seen in game, it takes a LOOOOONG time to starve to death (and you can only die from starvation if you use Rules Compendium; you can't die from it in Core).

I have a 10th level barbarian NPC that will be getting rescued from the Faerie Realm.  When he is rescued and returned to the Material Plane, he will instantly age 2 months, and effectively will not have eaten for two months.  Just yesterday I ran the Con checks and the nonlethal damage (and eventual lethal damage) for this 118 hp barbarian, and after two months of not eating, he had taken 118 points of nonlethal, then taken about 40 points of lethal damage.  He's still got a good 20 days before he would likely die (with average rolls).

Don't forget thirst though. That's significantly more nasty, forcing checks 1/hour.

[Arz]

Nope, it isn't nasty because of any of those; it's nasty because it renders you unable to digest food. Hope you've grabbed some means of surviving without food!

Note that once you reach the levels that this spell would be seen in game, it takes a LOOOOONG time to starve to death (and you can only die from starvation if you use Rules Compendium; you can't die from it in Core).

I have a 10th level barbarian NPC that will be getting rescued from the Faerie Realm.  When he is rescued and returned to the Material Plane, he will instantly age 2 months, and effectively will not have eaten for two months.  Just yesterday I ran the Con checks and the nonlethal damage (and eventual lethal damage) for this 118 hp barbarian, and after two months of not eating, he had taken 118 points of nonlethal, then taken about 40 points of lethal damage.  He's still got a good 20 days before he would likely die (with average rolls).

Don't forget thirst though. That's significantly more nasty, forcing checks 1/hour.

Ouch, must drink 720 gallons of water or die! That's about 5,760# of water. Actually about a full grid square full of water. Total water bloat.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

so like 

Water Elementals chugging Decanters Of Endless Water.
The one say to the other:  Do I look fat or pregnant now?
The other says with slurred speech:  You look like a Ss-olid Fff-fog !!

Bartender goes:    ... and pockets the extra dough from
conning the Water Elementals into buying 2 endless decanters.

[ksbsnowowl]

Don't forget thirst though. That's significantly more nasty, forcing checks 1/hour.

That would be a little too sadistic.  The flowing time trait for the Faerie Realm only mentions food, and dying of old age, not dying of thirst.

Flowing Time: For every day spent on the Plane of Faerie, a week passes on the Material Plane*. But unlike most planes with the flowing time trait, time lost on the Plane of Faerie catches up with the traveler. Non-natives who spend time on the Plane of Faerie and then return to a plane with the normal time trait instantly "catch up." Those affected may be ravenous if they have not eaten in weeks as measured by Material Plane time. A visitor who stays a long time on the Plane of Faerie may die if "catching up" with Material Plane time takes her beyond her normal life span. The natives of Faerie are unaffected by this phenomenon, and only the most astute natives mention it to visitors from the Material Plane.

If thirst were added to the equation, then the NPC described above would be dead after spending a mere four hours in the Faerie Realm (4.9 days)*.  Don't want to make it that punitive, though they will be described as EXTREMELY thirsty when they return.

*Note, I use a rate of one day in Faerie equals one lunar month on the material plane.

[zook1shoe]

Good as a true dragon though

[ksbsnowowl]

Good as a true dragon though

If you are referring to my cursed coin dragons, they could grow quickly on Midgard relative to the Faerie Realm, but they would grow and age very slowly relative to Midgard if they were in the Faerie Realm.  Now, that could be useful to some extremely long-term plots on the dragon's part, as he wouldn't need to sit and twiddle his claws, and could zip through the wait time, but it would otherwise age the dragon just the same.

He would also have the Con and HP's to outlast thirst and starvation.

Interestingly, according to the Rules Compendium, a Heal spell can cure someone of dehydration and thirst (but doesn't heal lost HP's when doing so), but cannot heal someone of starvation.

...[given water and under care for 24 or 48 hours with a Heal check, blah, blah]...Once a Heal check of this sort has succeeded, the damage taken by the creature can be restored through the normal means.

A heal spell can be used to rehydrate a creature in place of the recovery time, water, and a Heal check.

[Kethrian]

Dehydration rules are clarified and expanded in Sandstorm, and the spell Hydrate (2nd lv) removes dehydration and heals all subdual damage caused by it.

[Halinn]

Light mithral shields have 0% ASF, as does a mithral shirt or heavy mithral shield enchanted with Twilight.  And they have no ACP, too, so no non-proficiency penalties.

Twilight mithral feycraft Chain Shirt

Mithral Feycraft Chain Shirt with Thistledown Padding. Cheaper, for better benefit.

[bruceleeroy]

Doesn't Thistledown padding raise the ACP by 1? Meaning, lacking proficiency in light armor, you'd have a -1 to attack rolls?

[Kethrian]

Twilight mithral feycraft Chain Shirt

feycraft is kinda pointless other than the weight reduction at that point...

Mithral Feycraft Chain Shirt with Thistledown Padding. Cheaper, for better benefit.

The thistledown suit increases the ACP to -1, which is not good for anyone not proficient.  Granted, it is a different alternative, for those who don't mind the penalty and want the extra bit of coin.

Also for consideration: Feycraft or mithral dastana and chahar-aina.  Both work well in combination with the chain shirt for even more AC, and if you wanted, you could enchant one of them up to the the +5 enhancement to save on the Twilight cost for the mithral shirt.

Edit: Instead of Twilight for a mithral heavy shield, feycraft would be a cheaper option.

[Halinn]

Mithral Feycraft Chain Shirt with Thistledown Padding. Cheaper, for better benefit.

The thistledown suit increases the ACP to -1, which is not good for anyone not proficient.  Granted, it is a different alternative, for those who don't mind the penalty and want the extra bit of coin.

Also for consideration: Feycraft or mithral dastana and chahar-aina.  Both work well in combination with the chain shirt for even more AC, and if you wanted, you could enchant one of them up to the the +5 enhancement to save on the Twilight cost for the mithral shirt.

Base -2 ACP, mithral removes 3, thistledown suit adds 1. Total 0.

[Kethrian]

Base -2 ACP, mithral removes 3, thistledown suit adds 1. Total 0.

Not quite.  -2 ACP, lowered by 3 from mithral to a minimum of 0, thistledown increases by 1.  Total -1 ACP.

[Nanshork]

Base -2 ACP, mithral removes 3, thistledown suit adds 1. Total 0.

Not quite.  -2 ACP, lowered by 3 from mithral to a minimum of 0, thistledown increases by 1.  Total -1 ACP.

You do realize that there is nothing saying that you can't apply them in the order most beneficial to you right?

[Kethrian]

Perhaps, but mithral has to be added when the armour is made, while the thistledown suit is an add-on that comes after.  Its modifier isn't present when mithral's modifier is added to the armour, so logically, one must resolve mithral's effects upon the base armour first, then further modify it by the under padding, added after.

[Halinn]

Perhaps, but mithral has to be added when the armour is made, while the thistledown suit is an add-on that comes after.  Its modifier isn't present when mithral's modifier is added to the armour, so logically, one must resolve mithral's effects upon the base armour first, then further modify it by the under padding, added after.

We're talking D&D, right? When did logic enter the equation? Anyways, even if it does have 1 ACP (I remain of the opinion that beneficial ordering applies, though), it's great for arcane casters (alongside mithral charar-aina and mithral dastana, of course)

[linklord231]

Perhaps, but mithral has to be added when the armour is made, while the thistledown suit is an add-on that comes after.  Its modifier isn't present when mithral's modifier is added to the armour, so logically, one must resolve mithral's effects upon the base armour first, then further modify it by the under padding, added after.

Judging by the fluff of RotW and the fact that you can't buy just a Thistledown Suit (you can buy Thistledown Padded Armor, but that's different), it seems like you make a Mithral Thistledown Chain Shirt all at once.  If that's the case, it seems like the ACP would also all be applied at once, in the most beneficial order.

You're correct that feycraft is largely unnecessary (I was thinking Twilight only reduced ASF by 5%), but you could instead save yourself a chunk of change and do Mithral Feycraft Thistledown'd Chain Shirt instead.  Those 3 are all static costs, as opposed to the +1 bonus from Twilight.

[Kethrian]

Judging by the fluff of RotW and the fact that you can't buy just a Thistledown Suit (you can buy Thistledown Padded Armor, but that's different), it seems like you make a Mithral Thistledown Chain Shirt all at once.  If that's the case, it seems like the ACP would also all be applied at once, in the most beneficial order.

You can't buy just the thistledown suit?  From what I can see, it costs 250gp, is made with a separate craft skill, and weighs the same as standard underpadding for metal armour, which it can substitute.  That pretty much suggests that you can swap it out at any time, not just when the armour is first made.

[linklord231]

I parsed that sentence as "when you create a Thistledown suit, it costs you 250gp with a successful craft check," implying that you can't just buy one.  I can see how it could be read differently, though.  Not that it's evidence in its own right, but Forestwarden Shroud and Armor Spikes (and Netcutter spikes by extension) all have language that explicitly allows adding them to pre-existing armor.  Thistledown doesn't. 

[Kethrian]

Just had the oddest realization, and a re-reading of the feats does not contradict it...  It may still be a TO reading, but technically it works by RAW...

Empower Spell and Maximize Spell would affect any requisite attack rolls for the spells!  They are variable, numeric effects, and are not opposed rolls or saving throws!

Edit:  This makes Maximize Spell worth its level adjustment.  All spells with attack rolls are auto crits!