Author Topic: 3 Core Books: Strength or Weakness?  (Read 4692 times)

Offline Libertad

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3 Core Books: Strength or Weakness?
« on: March 27, 2012, 12:17:05 AM »
Many tabletop RPGs can be played straight away with just a single rulebook.  Ideally, these "core books" integrate character generation, setting information, and adventure ideas and adversary stat blocks together in one product.

Throughout its incarnations, Dungeons & Dragons has traditionally used 3 Core Rulebooks as a requirement for playing.  While the players needed only the PHB, the Dungeon Master needed all 3 to start up a session.

D&D has enough brand recognition to ensure popularity in tabletop gaming to not be adversely affected by this.  Imagine if other, lesser-known games required the purchase of 3 books in comparison to their counterparts?  It would hurt their sales, as it requires more monetary investment and purchases to get the "essentials."

What do you think?  Should D&D keep its course with 3 core rulebooks, or should it move towards a single hardback?

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: 3 Core Books: Strength or Weakness?
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2012, 01:32:03 AM »
You misunderstand business. 3 Core books has squat to do with shortening the rules or brand recognition but to sell you the same product three times. Like Harry Potter Book 7 part 1 & part 2, or the Twilight-Eragon-Was-A-Better-Book-Saga Book 3(?) part 1 & part 2. It's a cash grab.

Vote with you're wallet and pirate the other half (or third) of content you should have had.

Offline Ziegander

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Re: 3 Core Books: Strength or Weakness?
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2012, 01:41:01 AM »
D&D should be playable with a single book, as should any RPG in my opinion, titled the Dungeons & Dragons Core Rulebook. It should be as sleek as possible while still offering all the necessary rules for making characters and running a session. A single example monster per level would be nice, but wouldn't be necessary if the Core Rulebook came with some simple guidelines on running "combat challenges."

Any additional D&D Dungeon Master's Handbooks or Monster Manuals should NOT be compulsory purchases required for playing the game. I have no problem with such products existing, but I DO have a big problem with splitting relevant game play rules between three fucking books. Shame on WotC and shame on Hasbro for that shitty bit of marketing and sales.

Mind, D&D 3.5 can almost be played using only the Player's Handbook, but it just doesn't quite get there. Something somewhat like the D&D 3.5 Player's Handbook, but far more sleek and streamlined with the addition of the rest of the necessary DM's information should work pretty well.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2012, 01:44:11 AM by Ziegander »

Offline veekie

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Re: 3 Core Books: Strength or Weakness?
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2012, 01:43:41 AM »
Hmm, I think the model can be reinvented somewhat. You really should be doing one 'core rules' book, which contains all the rules necessary to both run and play the game(basic environment and CR rules, magic items etc), and add a further DM resource book, which would contain guidelines for creating monsters, stock NPCs, maps, and advice on running the game. D&D has enough monsters that it'd still need monster manuals, so that stays more or less as is.
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Offline Childe

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Re: 3 Core Books: Strength or Weakness?
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2012, 04:00:17 AM »
I think, for how multi-purpose D&D tries to be, two books makes sense, accounting for many pre-made monsters and traps and such. The DMG can really be folded into the other two books. D&D generally claims to handle "any fantasy and sometimes non-fantasy" to limited success without heavy modification. A more specified setting or view of character capabilities could probably manage it all in one book.

Simulation rules also devour pages. Though their inclusion is a matter of taste, game design should closely examine what rules are needed. Ultimately, it is a game, and that should be clear. The basic structure of a game can take only a few dozen pages, honestly, if built well.

Consolidating multiple rules and removing extraneous and convoluted rules is a great starting place. With abstract HP, attack rolls determine "success" rather than "hits," and then fit nicely with the fluff of magic -- removing the sarcasm from a remark I stumbled upon at 339, there's an underlying wisdom: "Sure, you can make a fireball with the spell, but a poorly made fireball won't burn anyone" (Tiballagher).

Reducing rules speeds up learning, preparation, and play, and leaves more room for abilities or reduces pages needed, saving paper costs on wide distribution. Then consider a 'feature' video game costs $60. A well-built, open-ended, highly replayable and adaptable game should easily be able to command, say, a $40 price tag. But that's the whole game not just the basics. For instance, when 4e hit, the PHB1 was pretty lackluster: playable, but with strikingly few options, especially for feats -- especially for wizards! Very specific expansions - campaign settings, adventure modules, etc. - can merit their own sales, but the game itself should be one package.

I won't advocate piracy, but if a game doesn't look like it's worth your dollar, skip it. Find a company making a quality game, or keep playing whatever you play now. D&D is not the only fantasy TRPG; and people should not let companies yank them around as if they hold a monopoly.

Game companies have a lot of opportunity right now to change. There's a great interview with Peter Adkison (CEO of WotC at the time TSR was purchased) where he talks about thinking at a time they could cut the D&D (game) staff down to about half a dozen people. Of course, that's not what happened, but having a few people with clear roles - content generation, art direction, etc. - saves costs and the team can often work much more quickly. WotC's MtG line works similarly with the Design, Development, and Creative teams for each set.
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Offline caelic

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Re: 3 Core Books: Strength or Weakness?
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2012, 05:08:20 PM »
Vote with you're wallet and pirate the other half (or third) of content you should have had.



How about "Vote with your wallet and do without it?"  Sorry, I've never understood the "I feel like I deserve this product, therefore I'm justified in pirating it" mentality.

Offline caelic

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Re: 3 Core Books: Strength or Weakness?
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2012, 05:10:57 PM »
D&D should be playable with a single book, as should any RPG in my opinion, titled the Dungeons & Dragons Core Rulebook. It should be as sleek as possible while still offering all the necessary rules for making characters and running a session.


TSR did this exactly once.  It was called the D&D Rules Cyclopedia.  All the rules necessary for playing from level 1 to immortality, including a monster manual, mass combat system, and campaign setting.

Unfortunately, the problem with "All you ever need to buy is one book!" is that all you ever need to buy is one book.  Tabletop RPGs are not a high profit-to-effort ratio item even in the best of circumstances.  There's a reason that basically none of the companies from the golden age of tabletop RPGs still exist in any meaningful form.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: 3 Core Books: Strength or Weakness?
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2012, 05:57:14 PM »
... and that's kinda sad  :-\


The three books just seem to be historical happenstance,
and then maintained for whatever justification.
iirc - post 1e basic d&d started with a single easy box.
WotC now has the Essentials Red Box, doing about the same.
Idk why they even bother with pictures and graphics anymore.
Put those on-line and/or make a deal with Nook before it's too late.
etc ...

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Offline Ziegander

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Re: 3 Core Books: Strength or Weakness?
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2012, 09:41:44 AM »
D&D should be playable with a single book, as should any RPG in my opinion, titled the Dungeons & Dragons Core Rulebook. It should be as sleek as possible while still offering all the necessary rules for making characters and running a session.


TSR did this exactly once.  It was called the D&D Rules Cyclopedia.  All the rules necessary for playing from level 1 to immortality, including a monster manual, mass combat system, and campaign setting.

It wouldn't need a full on monster manual OR a campaign setting. A legit monster manual can be sold separately so long as the Core Rulebook has a section that details "combat challenges" and how to build them. Campaign Settings would definitely be separate books, and rightly so. More than that, releasing all of the CORE rules in a single manual does nothing to stop them from making shit loads of profit selling splats like Complete Warrior, so I'm not buying your point that putting all of the rules you need to play the game into one book would somehow tank D&D.

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Re: 3 Core Books: Strength or Weakness?
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2012, 11:12:03 AM »
Many tabletop RPGs can be played straight away with just a single rulebook.  Ideally, these "core books" integrate character generation, setting information, and adventure ideas and adversary stat blocks together in one product.

Throughout its incarnations, Dungeons & Dragons has traditionally used 3 Core Rulebooks as a requirement for playing.  While the players needed only the PHB, the Dungeon Master needed all 3 to start up a session.

D&D has enough brand recognition to ensure popularity in tabletop gaming to not be adversely affected by this.  Imagine if other, lesser-known games required the purchase of 3 books in comparison to their counterparts?  It would hurt their sales, as it requires more monetary investment and purchases to get the "essentials."

What do you think?  Should D&D keep its course with 3 core rulebooks, or should it move towards a single hardback?

The way WotC does one book is a liability, and nowhere does it show more than the Core 3 (in 3.X or 4E). If their writers were more coordinated it wouldn't be nearly as bad, but the Core 3 have some serious coordination issues.

That said, I think the idea of a multi-book structure for the core rules is a fairly good idea. White Wolf does the whole "single rule book" thing, and it's a pain in the ass trying to find rules for resolving certain issues and the rules for a character's ability (although that can largely be chalked up to bad editing). I like being able to reference my Rules Compendium without needing to take the book from another player, and the only book I have multiple copies of is a book everyone at the table references (the MiC, as we always have access to the SRD).
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