Would This Be Unfair?

[kevin video]

You know what I recently learned? Depending on how you add templates, they can either be an absolute joke for CR, or they can completely crush your party without even giving them a chance for survival.

For example: The Mighty Template from Pathfinder is +5 CR. Gives +5 to AC, initiative, saves, skill and ability checks, +10 to attack, +10 hp per HD (50 min.), DR 1/- per 3 HD, SR = CR+12, +7 to all save DCs, and immune to all mind-affecting, sleep, paralysis, etc. For a CR 1 or 2 creature, that's a heck of a kick start. Next, the Mob template. Turns any creature into a CR 8 or adds +2 CR if it's 7+. Makes it gargantuan, does 5d6 damage, and essentially works like a swarm with 30 HD. If you add the two templates together, you either get a CR 8 creature, or you get a CR 13 creature. Neither of which fits. The CR 13 creature is too easy for a 13th level party, but at the same time it would wipe out an 8th level party.

Which would be more fair? Would you actually get away with sending this against a weaker party? Maybe make it CR 9?

[RetroGamer24]

I say make it CR 9.  Apply the mighty first then the mob.  Make the base critter a CR 2 one.  Bye way I am reading Mighty makes it a CR 7 then Mob a CR 9. 

[kevin video]

I say make it CR 9.  Apply the mighty first then the mob.  Make the base critter a CR 2 one.  Bye way I am reading Mighty makes it a CR 7 then Mob a CR 9.

I originally added it to a CR 1 Grimlock, making it CR 6, and then made it a mob for 8, but that seemed way too strong.

[RetroGamer24]

I would think it depends on the critter you put it on.  An orc with all of that, to me, doesn't seem OP at all.  It would make for a cool encounter.

[kevin video]

I would think it depends on the critter you put it on.  An orc with all of that, to me, doesn't seem OP at all.  It would make for a cool encounter.

True, but how about on a mob of orcs? That's 30 HD with DR 10/- and an automatic +300 hp.

The Advanced template is +1 CR for +4 to all stats and +2 nat armor. I'm going to add that on top of the grimlock then put on the mob template for CR 9.

[RetroGamer24]

The mob of orcs makes sense.  Would be a hoot to see but it makes sense.  You adding on the Advanced in addition to the Mighty or just Advanced and Mob?

[kevin video]

The mob of orcs makes sense.  Would be a hoot to see but it makes sense.  You adding on the Advanced in addition to the Mighty or just Advanced and Mob?

Either way they'll still be CR 8. The Advanced Template just makes the worse. Add in the Apex Predator for +2 CR and +4 nat armor and +8 to all stats, and you're going to have one hell of a fight. Just imagine that. Your standard orc warrior at CR 1/3 or CR 1/2 (3.5). Give them Apex Predator for +2 CR and then Mighty for +5, and then make them a Mob. That's going to get really ugly, really fast. I feel sorry for the party that comes up against that.

Granted, I'd feel even worse for a party going up against an apex predator mighty mob of medusas. That's an automatic +11 DC to their gaze attack before HD. Granted that would be a CR 16 encounter.