Dream Battle-revelatory vision

[Raineh Daze]

-Ponders.-

... you know, there's just one thing that's a little disappointing: Maiden's Capriccio only works if they target you. Most of the school is about keeping enemies at range or away from you anyway. End result is that they're more likely to attack someone else.

Well, that was kinda the idea. "Don't mess with that bitch". If it worked on allies, it would be kinda too tankish I believe.

Does Dark Fantasy Seal provide the attack and damage bonus if enemies are evil or nonhumanoid, or does it specifically require they be both to give the bonus?

They have to be both.

Right, so being able to make a DC 60 Sense Motive check is a good idea.

[Raineh Daze]

Looking at it, Fantasy Heaven is unusable as it is, since you're going to get all your allies with something like 200 force damage, as well as literally anything else in the area. >_>;

Odd that you went with the fighting game version when the stances for this are passively inclined in general (none of them need you to do anything and they all provide static benefits), and therefore the IN Last Word would fit more.

[oslecamo]

Reimu's a bitch, that's why she attacks everybody Changed Fantasy Heaven to only affect enemies.

Anyway, saying "IN Last Word would fit more" is easy for you to say, but how exactly can be implemented? "X rounds of invulnerability, then automatically exit" was the best I could think off when I was making this school if going for the Imperishable Night route, but as boring as it gets. Your opponents just run away for the time being or play full defense. Plus you can just roll over every trap ever and taunt the BBEG whitout a care in the world.

The fighting game on the other hand offers an interesting set of mechanics for that same spellcard, where you want to combo up and wait for the right moment to unleash full power.

So if you have any better ideas for this 9th level stance, I'm all hears.

[Raineh Daze]

It's an ability that lets her detach herself from reality just by taking 'flight' to its extreme. If some combination/selection of things from IHS, Dimension Door, Plane Shift, and wraithstrike can't fit it... @_@

The other problem with it as it is is, well... only one class liable to use this is full BAB, and it's not  really a 'lots of attacks' type thing (and Swordsage isn't hugely better  unless they go for TWF but that would mean Shadow Hand...). The need to get 7 or 8 consecutive hits on one opponent, without killing them or doing anything else and then you get some invulnerability makes it kinda hard to get in.

[oslecamo]

Hmm, let's see:
-All your attacks become touch attacks.
-Freedom of Movement.
-Automatically remove one ill condition from yourself at start of turn.
-1/round free plane shift and/or dimension door.

Still needs a "if you do X, where X is something you really want to be doing, you automatically exit this stance and cannot re-enter it for a while" clause.

Hmm, Wis score reduced by 1d4 each turn you keep the stance (losing grip on reality). If it reaches zero, automatically exit and you then recover 1d4 per turn until you're fully recovered. How does it sound?

[ketaro]

Maybe with it stopping at 1 rather than zero else you're unconscious for a round and susceptible to a greedy enemy jumping at the chance to coup de grace?

If you want to go that route.

[Raineh Daze]

So... you use the stance, you also make yourself bad at using the whole style?

[oslecamo]

Good point. I could add a clause that you get a cumulative bonus to your Dream Battle maneuver's DCs and Sense Motive checks, like +2 for each turn you remain into the stance, so you would get better (or just don't get  worst) at using the whole style.

[Anomander]

It'd be simpler if you just had some kind of countdown determined by your Wisdom score and it just lowered every round.
Less of a headaches than having it actually affect your abilities that are in turn offset by getting bonuses and the likes.

[oslecamo]

Says the guy that made a whole school based on an extra resource that is constantly changing based on a series of different factors.

If anything, it fits Reimu losing her cool wits when facing harder opponents.

[Raineh Daze]

It's unpredictable, though, and you're lowering a stat that's likely on the high side by only around two or three. Assuming, say, 25, that's an average of ten rounds of this.

[Anomander]

I don't get the hostility of that reaction.
It is essentially the same thing as what you originally aimed for, minus the trouble of getting worse at shrine-maidening.
With maybe a penalty to will saves on top.

The advantage would mostly be of not having to recalculate all your stats every round. I can imagine a lot being affected by Wisdom by the time you reach level 17. Managing a new statistic (especially a countdown) is much simpler than keeping track of several changes across a bunch of statistics you are already managing.

Edit: Reading it again, it does feel patronizing. Sorry. Just tried to help. Didn't mean to sound condescending.

[Raineh Daze]

I think that trying to keep track of steadily draining wisdom for my Shrine Maiden would make me want to cry, for what it's worth.

... which reminds me that I should really try helping with something for that ACF that isn't 'quaff potion'.

[oslecamo]

Then no deal. All you've asked for (touch attacks, teleport, plane shifting, free IHS) warrants a strong counter-balance point. And it also needs to be something original that hasn't been done for

The current Fantasy Heaven full combo isn't easy to pull off yes, but it isn't supposed to in the first place, and meanwhile, you do get the stacking sacred bonus to a bunch of stuff. 9th level stances aren't supposed to be something you pull off for mook cleaning and utility, it's supposed to be something you pull off only against the toughest opponents. Aka when you're already wanting to cry.

[ketaro]

It could drain Charisma?

Your stance ends when you have a charisma break 

That'd be something interesting to add in one that uses charisma though.....

[Raineh Daze]

Then no deal. All you've asked for (touch attacks, teleport, plane shifting, free IHS) warrants a strong counter-balance point. And it also needs to be something original that hasn't been done for

The current Fantasy Heaven full combo isn't easy to pull off yes, but it isn't supposed to in the first place, and meanwhile, you do get the stacking sacred bonus to a bunch of stuff. 9th level stances aren't supposed to be something you pull off for mook cleaning and utility, it's supposed to be something you pull off only against the toughest opponents. Aka when you're already wanting to cry.

It would make me want to cry from having to constantly adjust half a dozen different things. AC, Will Saves, Save DC's, attack bonuses, everything derived from Wisdom from the tactical feats, skill checks...

Every round.

'It needs to be something that hasn't been done before' is just making this more intentionally cumbersome.

My concern with the current Fantasy Heaven is that it's... basically useless. You get a mounting bonus, yeah, but you need to find an enemy that you can hit seven times consecutively at a minimum without its dying. Since you only have three attacks a round (this not being very TWF-y), that's three rounds if every attack hit, which seems a bit long to maybe get a 100 damage area attack (seriously, three rounds to MAYBE do a lot of damage, by which point there's unlikely to be enough left to even justify it?). Three rounds of  not using basically any of the other strikes from this entire school, without any of the defensive or practical bonuses from the lower stances.

[ketaro]

I think you're putting too much exaggeration on what you'd have to do when you Wisdom drops.

Yeah a lot of numbers change, but they all change by the same amount. There isn't really recalculating as much as it just noting a cumulative penalty of like -1 to -2 a round.

[Raineh Daze]

I think you're putting too much exaggeration on what you'd have to do when you Wisdom drops.

Yeah a lot of numbers change, but they all change by the same amount. There isn't really recalculating as much as it just noting a cumulative penalty of like -1 to -2 a round.

And then adding on the positive adjustment after? As well as having to roll for it? :/

[oslecamo]

Well, I could always make the Wis drain fixed.

Ketaro's idea of making it Cha drain, and then removing the bonus, could work too. Your Cha isn't as important, but since it'll probably be lower than your Wis, it'll also be drained faster.

[Raineh Daze]

Yeah, makes more sense. Also a more reasonable time limit.