Help Wanted: Martial Discipline.

[Quillwraith]

Arboreal Charge, technically, doesn't work. In order to charge you need a straight line and you need to move to the nearest space. For obvious reasons, this fulfills neither (unless there is a pair of trees in your way, in which case you don't have line of sight or an unobstructed path, but that's a separate matter).

So, given that we both know how I want this to work, how do I word it?

"This effect ignores the normal limitations that you must charge in a straight line and move to the nearest space"

[sirpercival]

Arboreal Charge, technically, doesn't work. In order to charge you need a straight line and you need to move to the nearest space. For obvious reasons, this fulfills neither (unless there is a pair of trees in your way, in which case you don't have line of sight or an unobstructed path, but that's a separate matter).

So, given that we both know how I want this to work, how do I word it?

"This effect ignores the normal limitations that you must charge in a straight line and move to the nearest space"

That's not quite right, though.  My intention was for it to still be in a straight line... from point A to tree A, then from tree B to point B.  Straight line through an arboreal wormhole.

[Garryl]

Move up to twice your speed in a straight line to a tree, teleport to another tree within [range] as per [spell], then move up to the remainder of your movement from before the teleportation in a straight line, then make an attack as though at an end of a charge. This is otherwise treated as a charge, except as noted above. You needn't move to the nearest space from which you can attack the target.

Hmm, lot of save or dies at the higher levels. And did I miss something, or are there no maneuvers at all in this discipline that add some amount of dice of damage (other than the level 1 sneak attack stance)?

Isn't Vinefury Strike just Constricting Vines without the grapple?

Arboreal Evasion: Just do 50'/IL instead of 100'/2 IL. Should probably be a level 8 counter instead of 9, since the original ToB disciplines only ever have 1 9th level maneuver (always a strike) and that incorporeality counter in Shadow Hand is probably about as strong and useful.

Gaian Intellectul needs clarification. I'm not sure what it's supposed to do.

[sirpercival]

Move up to twice your speed in a straight line to a tree, teleport to another tree within [range] as per [spell], then move up to the remainder of your movement from before the teleportation in a straight line, then make an attack as though at an end of a charge. This is otherwise treated as a charge, except as noted above. You needn't move to the nearest space from which you can attack the target.

This works, thank you!

Hmm, lot of save or dies at the higher levels. And did I miss something, or are there no maneuvers at all in this discipline that add some amount of dice of damage (other than the level 1 sneak attack stance)?

Um... actually that seems true.  I had normal attacks which have a rider effect instead... should I put some extra damage in?

Isn't Vinefury Strike just Constricting Vines without the grapple?

Only if there's no one else in the initiative order.  It gets attacked on every other creature's turn.

Arboreal Evasion: Just do 50'/IL instead of 100'/2 IL. Should probably be a level 8 counter instead of 9, since the original ToB disciplines only ever have 1 9th level maneuver (always a strike) and that incorporeality counter in Shadow Hand is probably about as strong and useful.

OK, can do.

Gaian Intellectus needs clarification. I'm not sure what it's supposed to do.

Two parts.  (1) Auto-detect living creatures within 60 feet, regardless of obscuring tactics/Hiding/etc.  (2) Use find the path, but can't use maneuvers while you're using it.

[Garryl]

Isn't Vinefury Strike just Constricting Vines without the grapple?

Only if there's no one else in the initiative order.  It gets attacked on every other creature's turn.

Well, that's just silly. For one, it's got the bag of rats syndrome. For another, why would spectators make it more damaging?

Gaian Intellectus needs clarification. I'm not sure what it's supposed to do.

Two parts.  (1) Auto-detect living creatures within 60 feet, regardless of obscuring tactics/Hiding/etc.  (2) Use find the path, but can't use maneuvers while you're using it.

So, the first part is slightly less than 60' blindsense. And the second part... why does it make you lose maneuver use, exactly?

[sirpercival]

Isn't Vinefury Strike just Constricting Vines without the grapple?

Only if there's no one else in the initiative order.  It gets attacked on every other creature's turn.

Well, that's just silly. For one, it's got the bag of rats syndrome. For another, why would spectators make it more damaging?

I dunno.  I guess I could get rid of it altogether, I just couldn't think of another good way for it to be a big bad 7th-level maneuver.  Any suggestions?

Gaian Intellectus needs clarification. I'm not sure what it's supposed to do.

Two parts.  (1) Auto-detect living creatures within 60 feet, regardless of obscuring tactics/Hiding/etc.  (2) Use find the path, but can't use maneuvers while you're using it.

So, the first part is slightly less than 60' blindsense. And the second part... why does it make you lose maneuver use, exactly?

...well when you put it that way, it sounds crappy.    It should definitely be all creatures, not living, now that I think about it.  And as for the other thing, I figured just having find the path to anywhere all the time was a little overpowered.  Is it not?

[Garryl]

1: Regular attack, not touch (bear with me).
2: +12d6 damage.
3: Grapple check (with modifiers similar to Constricting Vines). If you win, plants entangle the target and it is pinned.
4: Target takes damage every round until it escapes the pin. No 1 round limit.

[sirpercival]

1: Regular attack, not touch (bear with me).
2: +12d6 damage.
3: Grapple check (with modifiers similar to Constricting Vines). If you win, plants entangle the target and it is pinned.
4: Target takes damage every round until it escapes the pin. No 1 round limit.

OK, that works.  I'll need to change the blurb, too.  What do you think about adding extra damage to the other strikes?

[linklord231]

I would go ahead and give some moderate bonus damage on the other Vine strikes, just so that they're still useful indoors and stuff. 

[sirpercival]

OK.  I went through and added extra damage to a bunch of stuff, rewrote Vinefury Strike, and adjusted Gaian Intellectus so that hopefully it's better now.

Thoughts?

Also, any suggestions on discipline weapons?

[Garryl]

Wolfpack Unison doesn't need the bonus damage. You know what other strike gives two full attacks? Time Stands Still, which is one level higher and still considered among the stronger options.

Most of the swift action and immediate action partner attacks could probably do without the bonus damage. It's really just the strikes that want it, everything else was fine.

[sirpercival]

OK, how's that?

[Garryl]

What's changed? I'm not wading through pages of text to find small differences between what's there now and what I remember from before. Would you mind posting a quick summary?

[sirpercival]

At the moment, the only maneuvers with bonus damage (besides the 1st-level stance) are:
Call of Vines +1d6
Constricting Vines +3d6
Vinefury Strike +12d6

I was considering keeping the +5d6 each on Sublime Unison, but at the moment I have it removed.  How did the new Gaian Intellectus look?

Ideas for discipline weapons: Scythe, Sickle, Lance, Mancatcher, Longsword, Scimitar, Greatsword, Quarterstaff, Greatclub.  No thematic cohesion, I know, but I can't get my mind around this.

Feat idea: whenever you are in a EoG stance, if an opponent hits you, your partner gains a morale bonus to attack and damage vs that opponent; you get the same benefit if an opponent hits your partner

[sirpercival]

At the moment, the only maneuvers with bonus damage (besides the 1st-level stance) are:
Call of Vines +1d6
Constricting Vines +3d6
Vinefury Strike +12d6

I was considering keeping the +5d6 each on Sublime Unison, but at the moment I have it removed.  How did the new Gaian Intellectus look?

Ideas for discipline weapons: Scythe, Sickle, Lance, Mancatcher, Longsword, Scimitar, Greatsword, Quarterstaff, Greatclub.  No thematic cohesion, I know, but I can't get my mind around this.

Feat idea: whenever you are in a EoG stance, if an opponent hits you, your partner gains a morale bonus to attack and damage vs that opponent; you get the same benefit if an opponent hits your partner

bump

[littha]

I would generally look towards the farming equipment end of the list as discipline weapons, druidy type stuff. Scythe, Sickle, Spears, clubs and natural weapons for example.

[sirpercival]

I would generally look towards the farming equipment end of the list as discipline weapons, druidy type stuff. Scythe, Sickle, Spears, clubs and natural weapons for example.

Yeah, you may be right... those aren't fantastic for a domeskipper, though.

[littha]

Tiger Claw is pretty awful for a Warblade too. Honestly most of the discipline weapon lists are pretty bad.

[sirpercival]

Tiger Claw is pretty awful for a Warblade too. Honestly most of the discipline weapon lists are pretty bad.

Lol.  Well, then, I don't feel so bad. 

[linklord231]

Maybe add in axes too.