General Discussion and Suggestions

[oslecamo]

Ideas, questions and other similiar stuff goes here.

Topic of the week, get some setting fluff done! My current plan for now will be to shamelessly copy from the SRW OG setting, mix in some fantasy/D&D stereotypes, a touch of my own madness and see what happens.

[The-Mage-King]

I suggest that you change the second post in the "Intro/Mech basics" thread to read like the following (yes, I'm still proofing. Because TYYYYPPOOOOOOOSSSSS!).

A note about mecha scale:

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Mechas are too big to work on foots so they work on mecha units(mu). A medium mecha fills a 5 mu side square. One mu corresponds to 6 feets, so a medium mecha is the size of a normal colossal creature, filling a 30 foot-by-30 foot square.

Pilot feats, skills, class features and other effects that refer to feet are amplified to mu, in a ratio of 5 mu for each 5 feet.

Mecha Combat basics

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The mecha uses the pilot's base saves, BAB, skill bonuses, feats, and class abilities for fighting, plus the pilot's Str and Dex scores (it takes a strong pilot to handle a mecha under stress, and it takes good reflexes to make it react in time). Remember that they're amplified to the mecha's size, with every foot involved increasing to one mu (for example, a pilot in a mecha takes a -1 penalty on spot checks for every 10 mu of distance, instead of for every 10 feet).

Despite being a machine, mechas are vulnerable to critical hits due to having complex internal structures.

Damage taken by the mecha is absorbed by the mecha's own HP, never by the pilot, unless the attack was a sucessfull critical hit. In that case, the pilot takes the amount of damage that would have been dealt if not for the critical hit, on top of the mecha taking the critical damage. Some mechas may have extra pilot protection, reducing this damage further.

A mecha reduced to 0 HP starts to colapse, and automatically ejects the pilot in a pod wich has 1/10 the mecha's total HP and same Nat armor/DR, but is diminutive size and counts as a mecha for attack purposes. The pod travels 1d12 x5 mu in a direction of the pilot's choice. Some mechas may have improved pods wich can move and/or fight on their own.

Combat between mechas and non-mechas.

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Their sheer size advantage allows a mecha to basically crush regular D&D opponents, should any be foolish enough to challenge them, while shrugging off whatever damage they might take.

Other creatures are converted to mecha scale, reducing colossal creatures to medium, gargantuan tp small, huge to tiny, large to diminutive, and medium or smaller to fine-sized.

Non-mecha, non-epic creatures and objects hit by a mecha bigger than them must succeed on a Fortitude save (DC 20+damage taken) or be instantly killed. A mecha ignores size bonus to AC from non-mecha, non-epic oponents. A mecha can choose to use a single-target weapon to damage all non-mecha non-epic targets smaller than himself in a single 5 mu square.

All damage from non-mechas  sources  is reduced to 1/10 (round down, minimum zero), before applying the mecha DR. Mechas ignore all non-damage effects produced by non-mecha sources unless they affect an area bigger than the mecha itself. This includes positive effects, like area buffs..

Thus it is possible for normal enemies to take down a mecha, but between their superior mobility, range, and firepower, it's not very likely. Very high level character may have a chance if they can dish out enough damage with each blow.

As a conclusion, a campaign wich includes this mecha rules should focus on mecha vs mecha combat, but you can still throw regular oponents against them.

 


In the case of the fort save, liken it to a Massive Damage save. Makes sense.


I'll proof stuffs.

[oslecamo]

Edited in your version, thanks!

Also, reduced the save DC to 15+Damage taken since 20+Damage taken felt a little too much in retrospective.

I'm not sure I get your "liken it to a Massive Damage save" comment. I didn't use massive damage rules because they're non-scaling, and I wanted to make it harder to resist, say, a WildWurger's Beetle Crusher than a simple Gespent's Punch.

[The-Mage-King]

I mean add something saying that it's treated as massive damage for the purposes of saves.


Because I'm pretty sure there are a few things that give bonuses to saves v. massive damage, so...

[Garryl]

Edited in your version, thanks!

Also, reduced the save DC to 15+Damage taken since 20+Damage taken felt a little too much in retrospective.

I'm not sure I get your "liken it to a Massive Damage save" comment. I didn't use massive damage rules because they're non-scaling, and I wanted to make it harder to resist, say, a WildWurger's Beetle Crusher than a simple Gespent's Punch.

Isn't that what losing hit points from damage taken is supposed to represent? Joe F. Soldier is going to die, save or not, from taking so much damage. But should Bear Grylls ß, the time-traveling cyborg commando archmage who fights with dragons and wrestles with Cthulhu really be taken out by a piece of steel just because it's 100 times his size?

With the current rules, unless you're fighting a mecha much lower level than you, you'll generally only make the save on a natural 20. With the reduced DC, you might make it from time to time at lower levels, but at higher levels damage still scales much faster than saving throws.

Edit: Actually, having looked at the damage values, I think I'm incorrect, at least at mid levels. I'll have to run the numbers properly when I have the chance. I'm still heavily against SoDs on every attack regardless, though.

[The-Mage-King]

Hm... Why not make it DC 15 as base, scaling up with mecha size/Pilot level?



So a 1st level mech forces a DC 15 save, but a 10th level mech forces a DC 20? Or similar.

[oslecamo]

I did tried to make the mecha damage don't scale too fast, so the save DCs shouldn't increase too much either (and remember you need to actually hit the target to force them to sav).

Making the saves DC just based on mecha size/Pilot would mean you rather use your smaller, faster firing weapons to deal with non-mecha targets. Which kinda makes sense now that I think about it.

Or perhaps I could simply make it that mechas deal 10x damage against non-mecha opponents (after DR), just as they take just 1/10th the damage from others (before DR).

[Prime32]

Problems with the mecha vs non-mecha rules:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCVLF3-KuAI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ktk8ic3yfiw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awkMHi28E-4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YpJG3AcrtY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSxMI2iP8PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gFpVUcIvmI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdaGIFFT3e8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAizwLfZbUA

Also

Note: Mecha Mooks as PCs

This class is intended for NPC enemies, but it should be fine for a player to use it, as long as they're fine playing with 5 characters that can just perform basic attacks, whitout spirits/maneuvers or anything else but basic attacks, plus a lot of dead levels.

Well depending on how you handle multiclassing...

[oslecamo]

Those are some pretty persuassive arguments, so I removed both save-or-die and damage multipliers/reducers between mechas and non-mechas. The giant robots still have the advantage of bigger speed/reach and range, but if that warblade gets near that gespent, he'll crack it open with a good Stone Hammer now.

Also I can't believe I made the Mecha Mook class and didn't remember he could make the perfect basis for your usual 5-man team! Right now they tecnically can't multiclass, but will most definetely work on something along that line. Perhaps multiclass feats of some sort? You start as a squad of 5 mooks, then 2nd level Super Robot multiclass and can combine plus starting to get spirits and maneuvers.

[fye121]

I got a question. Maybe i miss it but what is the kind of action to reload ranged weapon using ammo?
Example: If i shot all 12 shot form the Mega beam riffle to reload it is a standard action , a full-action ?

[oslecamo]

Fullround action, clarified it in the Real Robot list weapon section.

[oslecamo]

Added in capstones for Real and Super pilots, plus a few more arsenal options.

[Raineh Daze]

Does the Super Pilot ability let you have an extra Growth (to Colossal+)?

... 10d10 weapon with a plus 20 to hit and a 16-20 crit range. x3. That's... quite a lot. @_@

[oslecamo]

It also takes a lot of arsenal space and doesn't have Power/Rending.

Being able to go over specific HD caps wasn't intended, clarified.

[Anomander]

How do we get in/out of a mecha (sans the emergency escape pod)? Required action, mostly.
Can we fight with the cockpit open to have line of effect to our enemies at normal scale from within? (probably allowing them to damage you directly)?
How much spare space to store stuff within a mecha of your size in Mu, if enough space, can it have passengers? (On your lap, if needs be). Or even more than one pilot without becoming a ship. (a-la power rangers' combined super mecha)
Can a mecha be disabled so as to neutralize its pilot without destroying it?

[Concerned Ninja Citizen]

Could a shield arsenal item and/or upgrade be created? Some mecha use them.

[oslecamo]

Good point on geting in/out, added it in.

The cocpkit isn't meant just to protect the pilot. It's also meant to protect the delicate control mechanisms. Anyone foolish enough to fight with an open cockpit can and will have his mecha instantly disabled the first time any enemy with two brain cells/transistors fires at them.

Clarified "storage space".

If the pilot is weak enough, you may able to knock him down with crits before the mecha itself is destroyed. Otherwise they're kinda stuck.

Could a shield arsenal item and/or upgrade be created? Some mecha use them.

Usually as in-built stuff.

Added a bunch of shields. Also buffed up the higher arsenals that grant a bonus to attack rolls.

[Clanjos]

Is there a feasible way to emulate interchangeable parts in battle, such as with Steel Jeeg? Or mechs that combine?

[Anomander]

Sad we can't go Kira Yamato-style and disable mechas left and right. Maybe some kind of mecha non-lethal damage.

Also, what about attacks that damage only living beings?
Do they affect pilots directly or do a mecha counts as living for the purpose of taking hits for the pilot. Or does the pilot count as non-living while inside a mecha?

[oslecamo]

Is there a feasible way to emulate interchangeable parts in battle, such as with Steel Jeeg? Or mechs that combine?

That would fall in the "under development" part.

Sad we can't go Kira Yamato-style and disable mechas left and right. Maybe some kind of mecha non-lethal damage.

How you finish off an opponent's mecha is up to you. By all means claim you're just disabling key parts instead of exploding it into atoms. There's no pratical diference as far as destroyed mecha rules care.

Also, what about attacks that damage only living beings?
Do they affect pilots directly or do a mecha counts as living for the purpose of taking hits for the pilot. Or does the pilot count as non-living while inside a mecha?

Both shrug it off. Half the reason of encasing yourself in a massive steel coffin filled with unstable stuff is because at least it keeps pesky chemical weapons/ low radiations away.