Author Topic: Kobold Rage Mage  (Read 6529 times)

Offline Zovc

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Kobold Rage Mage
« on: September 17, 2012, 10:04:54 PM »
Hello all, Zovc here.

My friend invited me to play in a campaign he will be running soon. I've become smitten with the idea of playing a Kobold Rage Mage.

I know, this sounds disastrously bad. But the idea has some merit to it: my friends have a poor understanding of 3.5's 'theory' and optimization. The character concept is very colorful, and very prone to being killed mercilessly (in character) in the event of anything going wrong in terms of balance or power level.

Right now, this is the basic character concept: Kobold has Napoleon complex, feels as though he should be treated with respect and reknown because he is descended from a dragon. Kobold tries to prove to humans and elves and dwarves that he is capable and strong and better, but they no listen. Kobold get upset, things get exploded.

So, provided the character is too powerful by some bizarre turn of events, Kobold will just be especially abrasive towards townsfolk and rather than trying to prove himself by being helpful, he will try to prove himself by attacking villages. XD

The basic concept I was thinking of was Battle Sorceror and Barbarian going into Rage Mage. This probably can be refined quite a bit, but I need to provide the preface that my DM dislikes using 'too many' books to build characters.

tl;dr, Here are the things I would like to ask for assistance with: (AFB on weekdays.)

1. How much can you optimize a kobold who takes all 10 levels of Rage Mage and tries to utilize the class' features and flavor.
2. How can you make the above character playable at levels leading up to Rage Mage?
3. What classes would you use in place of Barbarian and Sorcerer, if you wanted to?
4. What adjustments to Rage Mage would you make in order to make it a more balanced ('around tier 3') class?
5. What adjustments to Barbarian and/or Battle Sorcerer would you make in order to make them more playable prior to accessing Rage Mage?

The fewer books used, the better, but any WotC printed 3.5 book is likely a fine source. This character will likely be played from level 1 up, his fluff is somewhat undefined (world/campaign dependent), but starting as either class is probably acceptable.

Thanks in advance, and I hope helping me explore this is enjoyable!

Offline linklord231

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Re: Kobold Rage Mage
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2012, 01:50:59 AM »
First, your questions:

1) Considering you want to play a kobold sorcerer going in to Rage Mage, I'd say we can optimize quite a bit... but your DM probably won't like it, even if the overall power level is around Tier 3.
2) At low levels, you'll be a superstar.  Kobold + all the cheese necessary to make you a decent Rage Mage = fan-fricking-tastic.  At mid-high levels, your power level will drop off significantly, but you'll still be able to pull your weight in the party.
3) Considering you're tied to Rage Mage, that's probably the best we're going to do.  Maybe a level of Champion of Gwynharwyf  or some other Rage-granting class instead of Barbarian, but what's the point?
4) Depends.  For anyone other than a Kobold Sorcerer, upping it to 7 or 9/10 casting would make it better.  But Kobolds get enough "+1 sorcerer caster level" freebies that it hardly matters.  But Rage Mage is widely considered a "Down 2 PrC", so you'd be going from a Tier 1/2 to a Tier 3/4, so you might not need any changes.
5) None.  Battle Sorc is good (though maybe not as good in all situations), and Barbarian is probably the best 1 or 2 level dip for any melee class. 

Now, the Build:
White Dragonspawn Kobold Battle Sorcerer 4/Barbarian 1/Rage Mage 10/Abjurant Champion 5
Feats:  Dragonwrought, Combat Casting, Draconic Reservoir, Practiced Caster, whatever else.  Extra Rage, I don't care.

The Trick:
Dragonspawn is a template from Dragonlance Campaign Setting (pg 222).  Specifically, the White version only has +1 LA, and increases your effective Sorcerer level by 1.  Note that Dragonspawn is a template that can only be applied to Humanoids or Monsterous Humanoids (which a Dragonwrought Kobold is not), but that's fine because you choose your race before you choose feats according to pg 11 of the PHB.  When you later Buy Off your level adjustment, you effectively gain +1 Sorc level for free.  Undergo the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage.  That's another +1 effective Sorc level.  Since you took Dragonwrought, you can become a Loredrake (Dragons of Eberron, pg 31) for another +2 Sorc levels.  When Soro_Lost shows up to tell you this trick doesn't work, tell him to STFU.  Nothing personal, Soro. 
So with all of that, you net +4 effective Sorcerer levels.  Between 10 levels of Rage Mage and a level of Barbarian, you lost 6.  So you almost make up the difference, but still get 9th level spells (at level 20). 

Now, with all that being said, I strongly advise disregarding everything I just said and not taking 10 levels of Rage Mage.  Seriously, the class's iconic ability comes at level 1.  You could make a more traditional Gish like Battle Sorc 4/Barbarian 1/Rage Mage 1/Abjurant Champion 5/ Spellsword 1/Eldritch Knight the rest.  You'd still need the Greater Draconic Rite to get 9th level spells, but that is way less cheesy than relying on Dragonwrought -> Loredrake and White Dragonspawn in the same build, especially since it requires your DM believing that Dragonwrought Kobolds are True Dragons (or that Lesser Dragons can take a Sovereign Archetype) and mixing Eberron and Dragonlance material (some DMs don't like mixing settings). 
I'm not arguing, I'm explaining why I'm right.

Offline Maat Mons

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Re: Kobold Rage Mage
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2012, 02:40:09 AM »
This doesn't fall within your stated sources, but I'm going to point it out anyway.  The rage casting feat (Dragon 310, p30) lets you cast swift and immediate-action spells while raging. 

There's a druid variant in Unearthed Arcana that gets rage.  This only works with rage mage if you can use some sort of trickery to make it count as arcane. 

Offline Zovc

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Re: Kobold Rage Mage
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2012, 10:56:36 AM »
I'd say we can optimize quite a bit... but your DM probably won't like it, even if the overall power level is around Tier 3.
Good point, he still tends to consider source-diversity-and-complexity to be powergaming and nothing else.

The Trick:
Yeah, it will be quite a feat convincing DM that all of that is "Necessary to make a rage mage viable."

Now, with all that being said, I strongly advise disregarding everything I just said and not taking 10 levels of Rage Mage.  Seriously, the class's iconic ability comes at level 1.
This is the route I will try taking, but I might also have trouble convincing DM to let me only take one level of Rage Mage. Much like he enforces multiclassing restrictions, he likes to enforce the rule that you're supposed to follow through with PrCs if you are able to. He also thinks combining PrCs is flavorfully absurd.

This doesn't fall within your stated sources, but I'm going to point it out anyway.  The rage casting feat (Dragon 310, p30) lets you cast swift and immediate-action spells while raging.

I'll see how DM feels about that feat. Perhaps I can just avoid Rage Mage altogether with that feat and take a gish PrC.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Kobold Rage Mage
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2012, 11:05:58 AM »
This is the route I will try taking, but I might also have trouble convincing DM to let me only take one level of Rage Mage. Much like he enforces multiclassing restrictions, he likes to enforce the rule that you're supposed to follow through with PrCs if you are able to. He also thinks combining PrCs is flavorfully absurd.

This is not actually a rule.  A lot of DMs think it is, for some reason... and it's certainly allowed for them to houserule it, but it is not stated anywhere.

Anyway, a kobold barbarian is a hilarious thing.  That strength penalty and small small size will be killer, though... how do you actually want to go about fighting?

How does your DM feel about homebrew?  I can probably guess, but I figured I'd ask anyway.
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Offline Unbeliever

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Re: Kobold Rage Mage
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2012, 11:10:12 AM »
...
Now, with all that being said, I strongly advise disregarding everything I just said and not taking 10 levels of Rage Mage.  Seriously, the class's iconic ability comes at level 1.
This is the route I will try taking, but I might also have trouble convincing DM to let me only take one level of Rage Mage. Much like he enforces multiclassing restrictions, he likes to enforce the rule that you're supposed to follow through with PrCs if you are able to. He also thinks combining PrCs is flavorfully absurd.
This is not so much a "rule" as "arbitrary thing your DM made up."  Just saying.  I would be interested to see if there is literally any support for it in the rules.  If your DM wanted to just say "play a Druid" he could have just come out and said it. 

Oh, and all the Red Wizards of Thay/Archmages want to have a word with your DM ...



Given the Napoleon anger-filled Kobold concept, though, I would have just ditched the whole Barbarian angle entirely.  It in no way seems to be tied to the cool stuff in the concept.  Instead, I'd crack open Dragon Magic and Races of the Dragon and cast things like Ferocity of the Sanguine Rage all the time.  That is, I'd approach it from the perspective of making a furious Kobold burninator.  Although they can make as good of gishes as anybody, viz. the picture for Greater Mighty Wallop. 

Ideally, it shouldn't be hard to show how bad Rage Mage is.  Just compare it to Wizard, losing that many caster levels is pretty terrible for a character whose key ability is casting spells. 

EDIT:  totally ninja'ed.

Offline Zovc

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Re: Kobold Rage Mage
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2012, 11:21:25 AM »
This is not actually a rule.  A lot of DMs think it is, for some reason... and it's certainly allowed for them to houserule it, but it is not stated anywhere.
I could have sworn that I had read it somewhere myself. Isn't it in the DMG around where they give you your first few prestige classes?

Anyway, a kobold barbarian is a hilarious thing.  That strength penalty and small small size will be killer, though... how do you actually want to go about fighting?
You know, that's going to be a lot harder than I thought. I thought kobolds only had a -2 to Strength.

How does your DM feel about homebrew?  I can probably guess, but I figured I'd ask anyway.
He generally assumes that it's people wanting to make brokesauce content. He asked me if I was asking him about a homebrew PrC or the one in Complete Warrior, so he might be willing to take a homebrew Rage Mage.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Kobold Rage Mage
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2012, 11:26:04 AM »
This is not actually a rule.  A lot of DMs think it is, for some reason... and it's certainly allowed for them to houserule it, but it is not stated anywhere.
I could have sworn that I had read it somewhere myself. Isn't it in the DMG around where they give you your first few prestige classes?
Nope.  Checked before I made my post.

Quote
Anyway, a kobold barbarian is a hilarious thing.  That strength penalty and small small size will be killer, though... how do you actually want to go about fighting?
You know, that's going to be a lot harder than I thought. I thought kobolds only had a -2 to Strength.

How does your DM feel about homebrew?  I can probably guess, but I figured I'd ask anyway.
He generally assumes that it's people wanting to make brokesauce content. He asked me if I was asking him about a homebrew PrC or the one in Complete Warrior, so he might be willing to take a homebrew Rage Mage.
Here are three from the Rewrite Compilation.

I know a lot of people think that about homebrew, which frustrates me as a prolific homebrewer... I put a lot of effort into balancing my work, moreso than most of the published crap.  But if you think you might be able to get something approved, you could try Thaumurai as a fun gishy-type class.
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Offline Arz

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Re: Kobold Rage Mage
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2012, 12:09:18 PM »
Confession of a sorceror rage mage,"I was minimalized as an arcane caster in comparison with the NPC diviner I partied with." Seriously you are going to feel left behind unless massive optimization is spray cheesed to your character.

Check out Suel Rager

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Kobold Rage Mage
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2012, 04:03:21 PM »
The Unapproachable East 'rage mage' might have some potential, and prob easier to get approved over homebrew
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Offline Emo_Duck

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Re: Kobold Rage Mage
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2012, 11:07:04 AM »

Anyway, a kobold barbarian is a hilarious thing.  That strength penalty and small small size will be killer, though... how do you actually want to go about fighting?
You know, that's going to be a lot harder than I thought. I thought kobolds only had a -2 to Strength.


There are some race variants in Unearthed Arcana, and the Arctic Kobold only takes a -2 penalty to strength. Might be worth a look: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm