Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread

[Sinfire Titan]

Weapon Specialization adds numbers, not flavor.

And Quarterstaff Master doesn't add flavor either. It doesn't do anything you couldn't already do in PF aside from qualifying you for WS, and only WS.

[ImperatorK]

It lets you use a two-handed weapon in on hand.

[Raineh Daze]

It lets you use a two-handed weapon in on hand.

And? It deals 1d6 damage. Just get a damn longsword. It's not like 'one-handed quarterstaff' is an improvement in any way. Less damage than some one-handed weapons, less damage than using it in two hands, less potential uses than using it as a double weapon.

[phaedrusxy]

It lets you use a two-handed weapon in on hand.

And? It deals 1d6 damage. Just get a damn longsword. It's not like 'one-handed quarterstaff' is an improvement in any way. Less damage than some one-handed weapons, less damage than using it in two hands, less potential uses than using it as a double weapon.

I don't think anyone is saying that this is a good feat... Just taking issue with the statement that it does nothing at all (aside from take WS). Assuming PF works like D&D in this respect, you can't normally wield an appropriately sized 2-handed weapon in one hand. This feat lets you do that with a QS, as useless as that is.

[Raineh Daze]

It lets you use a two-handed weapon in on hand.

And? It deals 1d6 damage. Just get a damn longsword. It's not like 'one-handed quarterstaff' is an improvement in any way. Less damage than some one-handed weapons, less damage than using it in two hands, less potential uses than using it as a double weapon.

I don't think anyone is saying that this is a good feat... Just taking issue with the statement that it does nothing at all (aside from take WS). Assuming PF works like D&D in this respect, you can't normally wield an appropriately sized 2-handed weapon in one hand. This feat lets you do that with a QS, as useless as that is.

Well...

It's still rather pointless as it's two feats to wield a weapon you would have no sane reason to want to wield in one hand... in one hand.

Flavor.

That's rather outside the scope of this thread. Weapon specialisation adds flavour, but that doesn't make it a good feat.

This is a thread for bad feats. The only reason to argue about something is whether you disagree on if it's a bad feat.

Or just to be an asshole, I guess.

[PixelHead777]

I think the point was asking how bad it was. Like, not worth it bad, or literally does nothing but waste a feat.

Is different levels of bad! And it's nice to know what those levels are.

[Raineh Daze]

I think the point was asking how bad it was. Like, not worth it bad, or literally does nothing but waste a feat.

Is different levels of bad! And it's nice to know what those levels are.

Literally does nothing but waste a feat. The weapon specialisation would get you to longsword damage. That is two more feats to make this JUST as bad as longsword+weapon focus. Yes, you can technically do something you couldn't before, but mechanically you're worse off.

[StreamOfTheSky]

It lets you use a two-handed weapon in on hand.

Or you could just use a club.

Another no-cost, completely wooden stick that deals 1d6 bludgeon damage that can be 1-handed or 2-handed.  Except the club can also be thrown with a 10 ft range increment.  So it's actually better than the quarterstaff, even with this feat.  And doesn't make you waste a feat.

[ImperatorK]

Picking a feat for flavor is a completely sane reason. That's all I said. Nothing more, nothing less.

This is a thread for bad feats.

Yes it is. So? I can't make comments that aren't 100% on topic? That never was a problem on this boards.

The only reason to argue about something is whether you disagree on if it's a bad feat.

Except I wasn't arguing anything concerning the feat's goodness or badness, so you were just making a strawman. And don't talk to me about "scope of the thread". I just commented on your post. You're the one who chose to argue.

Or just to be an asshole, I guess.

It could be argued who's the asshole here. For one thing, I don't call other people assholes.

Or you could just use a club.

Yes you could. Your point?

To add something to the thread for a change. Don't know if bad rules are "in the scope of the thread", but something that irks me is that Paizo for some reason thinks the smallest things are umbalancing or something like that. I mean, it is obviously unoptimal to one-hand a two handed weapon, because you lose on a feat (or ability), you gain minimal damage and lose on accuracy. Now, I don't know how it was in 3.5, but by RAW a two-handed weapon doesn't technically have to be two-handed to gain higher Power Attack damage (maybe even to gain bonus damage for two-handing one-handed weapons, it's not clear), so this flavor option has at least that going for it. Of course Paizo doesn't like mundanes having even the smallest advantages, so they specifically nipped that rule in the bud. They copy-pasted this rule leaving this interpretation open, but then made it clear in a FAQ somewhere that it doesn't work.
Man, sometimes I hate Paizo.

[Sinfire Titan]

Keep the tone civil guys.

[Craiconn]

This has been an excellent showcase thread so far .... and I'm certainly in cahoots with you guys in regards to my antipathy for a good portion of PF game mechanics.

That said, I'm wondering if it would be too heretical for one of us to start a diametrically opposed thread that showcases some of PF's "good feats/spells/etc."  Keep in mind, it would be for spot cases ... not wholesale swaths of Pathfinder awesomeness (which, to be honest, doesn't seem to exist).  Since I only play spellcasters, I have pretty strong system mastery of 3.5/D20 spellcasting rules, combinatorials and buildcraft.  That said, I really do enjoy backporting a good number of Pathfinder spells back to 3.5.  There are certainly cases of certain PF spells and metamagic feats being either outright ill-thought-out, broken or boringly forgetful ... but there are also many flavorful winners that enhance 3.5 spellcasting play without exacerbating quadratic powermongering and endless loopisms. 

[Prime32]

I'm wondering if it would be too heretical for one of us to start a diametrically opposed thread that showcases some of PF's "good feats/spells/etc."

There was one, sort of.

[deadkitten]

Magus is probably the only class that would benefit from Quarterstaff Master.  And look, it even has an archetype that the feat was probably created for that you gain for free at first level. Now they can use spell combat with a magical staff, it has a purpose, however limited to a single class and archetype.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus/archetypes/paizo---magus-archetypes/staff-magus

[Mixster]

The monk would also benefit since the quarterstaff is a monk weapon and the club is not

[SolEiji]

I wanted to start out by saying I'm usually the one defending pathfinder.  It's a flawed game, but have found more good then bad, and generally use it as an expansion to 3.5e if anything.  So usually when I see something dumb from them I shake my head and push that aside for better stuff.

So.... I was looking up some things making a staff and I realized PF changed stave rules.  I wonder what change they made, looks like the price went up slightly but I'm sure it's not too ba...

...

NOPE!

TEN.  TEN charges!?  Even with the ability to recharge them, TEN?  With restrictions on what can recharge them?  And only 1 charge per day regardless how many spell slots you have?!

NOPE.  NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE.     God damnit Paizo, you make this difficult for me!

[Nytemare3701]

I would object to the cherrypicking of pathfinder rules under the grounds that a game's rules are intended to be used together, with balance in mind...but then I remembered this is Paizo. Carry on.

[StreamOfTheSky]

I think elephant stomp has a serious challenger for worst feat ever!

Troth of the Forgotten Pharoah

Spend a feat and some hp loss for the ability to irrevocably kill yourself just to do inconsequentially tiny damage and a 1 round debility to those around you out of spite.  Awesome!

(click to show/hide)

You’ve pledged your body to a forgotten pharaoh, and are willing to sacrifice yourself to keep his secrets even in death.

Prerequisite(s): Must be a member of a cult of a forgotten pharaoh.

Benefit: Upon taking this feat, you undergo a ritual wherein the cartouche of a pharaoh is carved into your flesh (typically on the chest or back), and then embellished with painful crimson and ocher tattoos. The ritual takes 1 hour to complete, and you take 3 points of damage from the wound (see Special, below). Upon completion of the ritual, you gain the feat’s benefits.

As an immediate action, or when you die, you can cause white-hot fire to burst from the tattooed cartouche on your flesh, immolating your body in a bright flash and instantly reducing it to ash. If you are still alive, you are immediately slain. Spells such as raise dead or speak with dead cannot be used on your remains, but your equipment is unaffected.

As the fire consumes you, fiery snakes whip out of your body in a 5-foot-radius burst, dealing 1d6 points of fire damage + 1 point per character level. Creatures in the area can attempt a Reflex save to negate the damage (DC 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Constitution modifier). In addition, creatures within a 10-foot burst must succeed at a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Constitution modifier) or be blinded for 1 round. Blind or sightless creatures are unaffected by this blinding effect.

Special: You permanently lose 3 hit points when you take this feat. This damage can be healed only with a miracle or wish spell, but doing so causes you to lose all benefits of this feat.

I mean, I get that it's for NPCs and not PCs, but spending a feat on that shit is still freaking stupid.  And hell, when you compare it to say... 3E's Destruction Retribution it looks especially like ass.  And *that* feat was to turn your hordes of minions into ticking time bombs, not yourself!

[Keldar]

Who writes this shit, and how did they manage to hire Rob Liefeld's agent?!

[snakeman830]

I think elephant stomp has a serious challenger for worst feat ever!

Troth of the Forgotten Pharoah

Spend a feat and some hp loss for the ability to irrevocably kill yourself just to do inconsequentially tiny damage and a 1 round debility to those around you out of spite.  Awesome!

(click to show/hide)

You’ve pledged your body to a forgotten pharaoh, and are willing to sacrifice yourself to keep his secrets even in death.

Prerequisite(s): Must be a member of a cult of a forgotten pharaoh.

Benefit: Upon taking this feat, you undergo a ritual wherein the cartouche of a pharaoh is carved into your flesh (typically on the chest or back), and then embellished with painful crimson and ocher tattoos. The ritual takes 1 hour to complete, and you take 3 points of damage from the wound (see Special, below). Upon completion of the ritual, you gain the feat’s benefits.

As an immediate action, or when you die, you can cause white-hot fire to burst from the tattooed cartouche on your flesh, immolating your body in a bright flash and instantly reducing it to ash. If you are still alive, you are immediately slain. Spells such as raise dead or speak with dead cannot be used on your remains, but your equipment is unaffected.

As the fire consumes you, fiery snakes whip out of your body in a 5-foot-radius burst, dealing 1d6 points of fire damage + 1 point per character level. Creatures in the area can attempt a Reflex save to negate the damage (DC 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Constitution modifier). In addition, creatures within a 10-foot burst must succeed at a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Constitution modifier) or be blinded for 1 round. Blind or sightless creatures are unaffected by this blinding effect.

Special: You permanently lose 3 hit points when you take this feat. This damage can be healed only with a miracle or wish spell, but doing so causes you to lose all benefits of this feat.

I mean, I get that it's for NPCs and not PCs, but spending a feat on that shit is still freaking stupid.  And hell, when you compare it to say... 3E's Destruction Retribution it looks especially like ass.  And *that* feat was to turn your hordes of minions into ticking time bombs, not yourself!

I think it *could* be useful.

Thrallherd with minions that have this feat and use it for immediate action application of Dying Curses (BoVD).  Evil Queen Bee type character.

Or a necromancer-type with Destruction Retribution who uses Awaken Undead to let his minions gain this feat.  True kamikaze minions.

Other than that, I don't think the immediate action death is really that handy.

[Frogman55]

I think elephant stomp has a serious challenger for worst feat ever!

Troth of the Forgotten Pharoah

Spend a feat and some hp loss for the ability to irrevocably kill yourself just to do inconsequentially tiny damage and a 1 round debility to those around you out of spite.  Awesome!

(click to show/hide)

You’ve pledged your body to a forgotten pharaoh, and are willing to sacrifice yourself to keep his secrets even in death.

Prerequisite(s): Must be a member of a cult of a forgotten pharaoh.

Benefit: Upon taking this feat, you undergo a ritual wherein the cartouche of a pharaoh is carved into your flesh (typically on the chest or back), and then embellished with painful crimson and ocher tattoos. The ritual takes 1 hour to complete, and you take 3 points of damage from the wound (see Special, below). Upon completion of the ritual, you gain the feat’s benefits.

As an immediate action, or when you die, you can cause white-hot fire to burst from the tattooed cartouche on your flesh, immolating your body in a bright flash and instantly reducing it to ash. If you are still alive, you are immediately slain. Spells such as raise dead or speak with dead cannot be used on your remains, but your equipment is unaffected.

As the fire consumes you, fiery snakes whip out of your body in a 5-foot-radius burst, dealing 1d6 points of fire damage + 1 point per character level. Creatures in the area can attempt a Reflex save to negate the damage (DC 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Constitution modifier). In addition, creatures within a 10-foot burst must succeed at a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Constitution modifier) or be blinded for 1 round. Blind or sightless creatures are unaffected by this blinding effect.

Special: You permanently lose 3 hit points when you take this feat. This damage can be healed only with a miracle or wish spell, but doing so causes you to lose all benefits of this feat.

I mean, I get that it's for NPCs and not PCs, but spending a feat on that shit is still freaking stupid.  And hell, when you compare it to say... 3E's Destruction Retribution it looks especially like ass.  And *that* feat was to turn your hordes of minions into ticking time bombs, not yourself!

I think it *could* be useful.

Thrallherd with minions that have this feat and use it for immediate action application of Dying Curses (BoVD).  Evil Queen Bee type character.

Or a necromancer-type with Destruction Retribution who uses Awaken Undead to let his minions gain this feat.  True kamikaze minions.

Other than that, I don't think the immediate action death is really that handy.

I think this is the real point of the spell: "Spells such as raise dead or speak with dead cannot be used on your remains." Cyanide capsules hidden in your teeth just aren't that useful with all the various necromancy and divination spells available. The good bit here (for a given value of good) is keeping the BBEG's info out of the hands of PCs while still sending out mook attacks. The potential to do a bit of damage on your enemy is just gravy.

And while its a stupid feat, its still better than skill focus.