[3.P] T1-2 builds without using T1-2 classes?

[ImperatorK]

What builds are there that can be considered T1-2, but without using actual T1-2 classes?

[Wereling]

Bard/Ur Priest/Sublime Chord/Mystic Theurge comes to mind. Starts with a T3 class, ends up with 9th level divine and arcane spellcasting.

[phaedrusxy]

Beguiler/shadowcraft mage? Warmage/Rainbow servant?

[JohnnyMayHymn]

Psychic Warrior, Thrallherd

[sirpercival]

Does Binder + Zceryll count?  Or is that a T2 class?

Binder/Beguiler or DN/Anima Mage

[Nytemare3701]

Any Tier 3 + Any appropriate "Up 1 Tier" PrC.

/thread

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Good basic earliest 1/3rd melee build, that then mixes in and goes:
Bloodline 3 / Martial Monk 2 / Ardent 2 / UrPriest 2 / Psychic Theurge 7
with Tash + supporting extra cheese ... gets into the neighborhood.
Yeah yeah, I know about UrPriest being suspiciously close to top Tier.


Psi Recharge on a well built non-full caster, non Thrallherd.

[lans]

Dragonwrought kobold+warmage/beguiler/ or dread necro

[Empirate]

I'd say Bard-->Sublime Chord would be enough, you're now on par with a Sorcerer in casting plus you get music.

Beguiler is already on the brink of making tier 2, so just add any really nice full casting PrC (Anima Mage, Incantatrix...) and you're done.

Anything going into Ur-Priest really. Should be tier 2 by default, whatever you entered with.

[InnaBinder]

Southern Magician Dread Necromancer 11/Crusader 2/RKV 7.  DN 8 is sufficient, filling in /X 3 instead, where X=any full casting class.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Leadership with a non full caster,
basically does the job, but doesn't
help the first 5 levels any.

[Aliek]

Well, pun-pun does start out as a kobold paladin, I guess...

[Halinn]

Well, pun-pun does start out as a kobold paladin, I guess...

The kobold part is tradition, the paladin just makes it a little bit easier. Just about any race/class combination can do it.

[brujon]

Well, pun-pun does start out as a kobold paladin, I guess...

The kobold part is tradition, the paladin just makes it a little bit easier. Just about any race/class combination can do it.

Being a kobold also makes it easier to turn yourself into a Sarrukh, but i guess 2 PAO's can do the trick just as well. I THINK there's a version floating somewhere where you do it as a Human Aristocrat with some gold related feats and whatever...

[Halinn]

Well, pun-pun does start out as a kobold paladin, I guess...

The kobold part is tradition, the paladin just makes it a little bit easier. Just about any race/class combination can do it.

Being a kobold also makes it easier to turn yourself into a Sarrukh, but i guess 2 PAO's can do the trick just as well. I THINK there's a version floating somewhere where you do it as a Human Aristocrat with some gold related feats and whatever...

The trick goes Pazuzu -> 1 candle -> Efreeti (3 wishes) -> Plane shift to astral + Extra Candle + Wish for hookers and blow -> candle in sarrukh, win.
Without being a kobold, you'd have to miss out on getting hookers and blow.

[brujon]

Well, pun-pun does start out as a kobold paladin, I guess...

The kobold part is tradition, the paladin just makes it a little bit easier. Just about any race/class combination can do it.

Being a kobold also makes it easier to turn yourself into a Sarrukh, but i guess 2 PAO's can do the trick just as well. I THINK there's a version floating somewhere where you do it as a Human Aristocrat with some gold related feats and whatever...

The trick goes Pazuzu -> 1 candle -> Efreeti (3 wishes) -> Plane shift to astral + Extra Candle + Wish for hookers and blow -> candle in sarrukh, win.
Without being a kobold, you'd have to miss out on getting hookers and blow.

How much money can you get at first level without using downtime to sell salt gathered from Flesh to Salt used on cows? Something like a Human Aristocrat with Inheritance, Landlord & Mercantile... AFB right now... I think maybe you can get enough money to flat out buy a Candle of Invocation and avoid dealing with devils.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

The trick goes Pazuzu -> 1 candle -> Efreeti (3 wishes) -> Plane shift to astral + Extra Candle + Wish for hookers and blow -> candle in sarrukh, win.
Without being a kobold, you'd have to miss out on getting hookers and blow.

Butt ...  ... you can use all those leftover candles in more efreeti-ish ways.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Something like a Human Aristocrat with Inheritance, Landlord & Mercantile ...

... with Bunko's and a Magic Mart = Tier near 1 , for sure.

Call him: Batman's Tool Belt, but not the batman.

[brujon]

Something like a Human Aristocrat with Inheritance, Landlord & Mercantile ...

... with Bunko's and a Magic Mart = Tier near 1 , for sure.

Call him: Batman's Tool Belt, but not the batman.

Yeah, but i meant, is the money enough to buy a candle of invocation flat out from lvl 1? If so it's an alternative lvl 1 Pun Pun build...

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Uhh ...  ... I should have distinguished between a
"reasonable" / normal Magic Mart, and a borkt one.

As in: almost always gotta wait 1 day, spells might
not be available, Big requests have to go through
a non-diplomancy-able Diplo check , or More.
Also known as:  Hey that's a nice trick --- STAB --- I think I'll try that.