Chain Spell + targeted Dispel Magic = no reduction to Dispel's effectiveness?

[ksbsnowowl]

Chain spell has this clause which reduces the effectiveness of a chained spell on secondary targets:

If the chained spell deals damage, the secondary targets each take half as much damage as the primary target (rounded down) and can attempt Reflex saving throws for half damage (whether the spell allows the original target a save or not). For spells that don't deal damage, the save DCs against arcing effects are reduced by 4.

Since dispel magic has no saving throw, would it be safe to assume a chained dispel magic effectively functions equally well against all it targets?

I have a Halruaan Elder who can adroitly cast chained spells (ie, chain spell is +2 levels for him, not +3), and chained dispel magic would be a rather nasty debuff against an antagonistic party.

[zook1shoe]

Yeah, since it has no saving throw, it don't take a reduction.

[phaedrusxy]

Yes, it's one of the better uses for Chain Spell, along with buffs like Greater Magic Weapon, etc.

[FlaminCows]

Thus damage is the least effective thing a mage can do with his spell. Again. 

[Captnq]

Depends on how much of a jerk your DM wants to be.

Technically, by RAW, every target (and it has to be directed at targets, not the area dispel) is affected equally. A DM could rule that the DC difficulty goes up by 4. Or if he really wanted to be nasty, he could rules that every secondary gains a reflex save. That's not how it reads, but hey, I've read a wide number of viewpoints on the matter. You'd be surprised.

The main issue is this: Area dispel targets everything for 20'. Chain Spell is +3 level adjustment and only goes out to 30' and needs to target specific objects. Do you really need that 10'? How about Widen for +3, that will get you 40' and be the same level. A widen metamagic rod is far cheaper. I suppose you don't want to target your allies, but you roll seperately for each thing you are dispelling. This is my judgement call, but I don't see any reason why you can't choose to fail your roll against your allies. If your DM sees it the same was as I do, then chain spell is pointless on a Dispel Magic.

[Eagle of Fire]

This is my judgement call, but I don't see any reason why you can't choose to fail your roll against your allies.

Quite the opposite. Assuming you are talking about dispel magic used as an area dispel, the first sentence of the description specifically mention that everything inside the radius is targeted. There is really no reason to think you can simply skip your allies.

The simple fact that it is an area spell already precise that you do not have control of its targets anyways.

The only reference to a similar proposition would be the opposite: you do have an option to automatically succeed your checks agaisnt spells you already casted yourself.

[linklord231]

The benefit of using Chain spell on Dispel Magic is that it lets you use the targeted version of Dispel against lots of things.  The Area dispel lets you get rid of one effect per person in the area.  The Targeted version gets rid of potentially all effects on that person.  And then you can also target all of a character's magic items, something you couldn't do with the Area version. 

[ksbsnowowl]

Depends on how much of a jerk your DM wants to be.

Technically, by RAW, every target (and it has to be directed at targets, not the area dispel) is affected equally. A DM could rule that the DC difficulty goes up by 4. Or if he really wanted to be nasty, he could rules that every secondary gains a reflex save. That's not how it reads, but hey, I've read a wide number of viewpoints on the matter. You'd be surprised.

No problem with that.  I'm the DM.  Just checking my thinking before I subject it on my players.

The main issue is this: Area dispel targets everything for 20'. Chain Spell is +3 level adjustment and only goes out to 30' and needs to target specific objects. Do you really need that 10'? How about Widen for +3, that will get you 40' and be the same level. A widen metamagic rod is far cheaper. I suppose you don't want to target your allies, but you roll seperately for each thing you are dispelling. This is my judgement call, but I don't see any reason why you can't choose to fail your roll against your allies. If your DM sees it the same was as I do, then chain spell is pointless on a Dispel Magic.

The Halruaan Elder in question is the commander of a squad of Halruaan Elder gishes.  He primarily got chain spell to give everyone in the squad +5 GMW'd weapons (thanks to his boosted caster level), but Dispel Magic seemed a nice additional use for it (though it does cap at CL 10) because it has the chance to strip multiple spells off of each of the PC's.

The other nice one will be chained Grease.  Yes, the secondary saves are reduced for that one, but when each PC has to make saves for each shoe, and their weapon, and their spell focuses in hand, etc, they'll likely fail at least one.

[snakeman830]

The real question: is it worthwhile?  Isn't Chain Dispel the same level or lower?  That one goes up to +25 bonus.

[betrayor]

The real question: is it worthwhile?  Isn't Chain Dispel the same level or lower?  That one goes up to +25 bonus.

Not if you are unable to cast higher  level spells and you are just casting metamagicked spell in "other" ways....

[ksbsnowowl]

The real question: is it worthwhile?  Isn't Chain Dispel the same level or lower?  That one goes up to +25 bonus.

Ah, I didn't even know such a spell existed.

Regardless, it is 8th level, and way outside of the range of this foe.  It would be a better option than chaining a greater dispel magic, simply because of the higher caster level cap. (For this individual, a chained greater dispel magic is also an 8th level spell slot.)

The Halruaan Elder in question is 12th level.