Items, terrain, etc. with built-in maneuvers

[Prime32]

Similar to how a location can have Aspects in FATE, a chandelier contains unique maneuvers like "swing on me" (boost or rush) and "drop me on enemies" (strike). An axe can be used to initiate the Steel Wind maneuver, and the wielder of a flaming sword can enter the Holocaust Cloak stance.

How do you feel about this idea? Each feature could incorporate a chain of maneuvers, so that initiators of varying levels can get appropriate effects out of them, or it could be more ad-hoc.

[Eldritch_Lord]

I like the idea of terrain-based maneuvers generally, as long as you're talking about having a generic list of maneuvers that you then attach to features rather than ad-hoc maneuvers per feature.  To use your chandelier example, it would be good to have a list of maneuvers that includes one like "Cross the Gap: make a [whatever] check while next to [feature], you move X feet and can make a charge at the end," and that maneuver can be used with chandeliers, hanging ropes, zip lines, and similar.  It would be bad for a DM to say at the beginning of the encounter "Okay guys, here are the mechanics for this scene...." because it takes extra time at the start of every combat and there's no common list of things to reference so players can remember them easily.

[Unbeliever]

I really do need to take the time and read through FATE.  I'll be traveling, so maybe that will give me the chance. 

I want to separate these out.  The idea of a magic sword that gives you Holocaust Cloak while wielding it is awesome and easy ruleswise, so I'd say good with that.

I imagine the maneuvers in FATE translate to some kind of bonus?  My preferred way of dealing with this, which I haven't really worked out yet, is to allow players to take advantage of terrain and interesting interactions with it for some bonus.  So, the classic swing on the chandelier might require an appropriate skill roll and then permit you to avoid terrain, maybe avoid an AoO, grant additional movement, and maybe grant a circumstance bonus to the attack (high ground, momentum).  Something like that.  That also spares you from making an exhaustive list of funky item maneuvers. 

If you can create guidelines, which sort of exist already in the game, then all that remains to be done is to encourage PCs to use them.  To do so, the bonuses need to probably make it worth their while, at least some of the time.  I tried doing something very similar in Star Wars -- Luke, et al. are always blasting out control panels, etc. but I was finding it hard to translate that into the game. 

[Prime32]

I want to separate these out.  The idea of a magic sword that gives you Holocaust Cloak while wielding it is awesome and easy ruleswise, so I'd say good with that.

Holocaust Cloak is about leaving a flaming trail with your movements that damages enemies. The logic was that it's much easier to do that if your weapon is on fire already.

[Tarkisflux]

How do you feel about this idea? Each feature could incorporate a chain of maneuvers, so that initiators of varying levels can get appropriate effects out of them, or it could be more ad-hoc.

On Environments: Yes please. Probably not scaling though. I don't know that a level 20 guy should be better able to use a chandelier than a level 3 guy, but some sort of level or BAB minimum might be appropriate.

On Items: I like the idea of giving weapon guys power chains based on which weapon they're holding. It may not be worth doing if you're just trying to broaden options with swappable sets because of DnD's specialization fetish. Axe people just aren't going to use sword people maneuvers because of the loss of bonuses from their feats. It might work ok with weapon groups, but it just seems like there's a lot of inertia against it you'd need to overcome if you want swappable stuff. The elemental or weapon property idea seems similarly useful, and way more interesting than default weapon properties, but likely to suffer similar inertia problems. If you're down with just boosting options and not expecting lots of swapping, then I think it's an idea worth exploring in more detail.

[veekie]

Seems simple enough to implement for terrain, though items may be problematic(as it affects the mechanical value of equipment). You just need a trigger, usage limit(many of these are destroyed by usage, or fragile) and effect guidelines for an appropriate CR encounter, plus a means of identifying such 'active' terrains.

So e.g.
Rope Swing(CR 5 appropriate)
A rope secured  at one end to a high place
Identification: Perception DC 10, and Tumble, Knowledge(Architecture) or Use Rope at 5 ranks.
Trigger:  5 points of slashing damage to rope and a free hand holding it.
Check: Acrobatics skill check(DC 20)
Success: User moves 30ft and can perform an attack at any point between the start and end. A melee attack gains the benefits of a charge attack. Enemies who cannot identify this event are flatfooted.
Failure: Take 3d6 falling damage and move 30ft in a random direction. Succeed on a DC 15 Reflex save or fall prone.

[Unbeliever]

^ I dig it.  I just worry about having to list them all out.  My goal, and really my holy grail of dynamic combat encounters, is for players to be able to make such suggestions that seem reasonable based on the usually somewhat sparse descriptions of the environment.  That's the kind of engagement I'd love on either side of the screen.  So, I'd want to avoid having to map them all out ahead of time.

That being said, with a page or so of these as guidelines, it might be easy to do on the fly.

I also dig what I'll call the synergy suggestion -- that a flaming sword could add to holocaust cloak, etc.  It'd be neat just to include that as a general thing as it would encourage more of a defined style for each character.  I might charge a small amount of wealth for it for game balance, and throw out various ideas here or there on a case by case basis.  But, I certainly like the idea, consider it stolen for a future campaign.

[sirpercival]

^ I dig it.  I just worry about having to list them all out.  My goal, and really my holy grail of dynamic combat encounters, is for players to be able to make such suggestions that seem reasonable based on the usually somewhat sparse descriptions of the environment.  That's the kind of engagement I'd love on either side of the screen.  So, I'd want to avoid having to map them all out ahead of time.

This is an integral mechanic in the FATE system.

[RedWarlock]

In a more abstract fashion, this is how Eberron's action points can work, as I recall. Wanna do something cool? Just like with spending a Fate point on an environ aspect, throw an action point on it and you get to do something awesome and unexpected. (I believe they make the chandelier comparison at one point.)

[veekie]

^ I dig it.  I just worry about having to list them all out.  My goal, and really my holy grail of dynamic combat encounters, is for players to be able to make such suggestions that seem reasonable based on the usually somewhat sparse descriptions of the environment.  That's the kind of engagement I'd love on either side of the screen.  So, I'd want to avoid having to map them all out ahead of time.

That being said, with a page or so of these as guidelines, it might be easy to do on the fly.

I also dig what I'll call the synergy suggestion -- that a flaming sword could add to holocaust cloak, etc.  It'd be neat just to include that as a general thing as it would encourage more of a defined style for each character.  I might charge a small amount of wealth for it for game balance, and throw out various ideas here or there on a case by case basis.  But, I certainly like the idea, consider it stolen for a future campaign.

What is needed is sufficient guidelines and examples for encounter appropriate triggers, mainly. These are neutral effects to boot, enemies and allies alike can use them if they can meet the requirements, so the only thing is to be careful to avoid adding something disproportionate to the scale of the battle without good reason(e.g. you should place more when fighting things grossly out of depth).

While it does seem to be a lot of work, it is much more useful and easily deployable if there is 3-4 for each level, which allows a DM to make quick adjustments on the fly to suit one design rather than having to construct an effect from scratch.