Author Topic: [3.P] What makes a ninja?  (Read 16992 times)

Offline SolEiji

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3045
  • I am 120% Eiji.
    • View Profile
    • D&D Wiki.org, not .com
Re: [3.P] What makes a ninja?
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2012, 11:46:14 PM »
I think I know what he will say.  That being, ninjas were just unmarked fighters and spies.  No black suits and katanas, more of "turns out the farmer you hired was never on your side" and he's weaponized his hoe as a deadly battle-weapon.

Let's see if his source matches my memory.
Mudada.

Offline Solo

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1778
  • Sorcelator Supreme
    • View Profile
    • Solo's Compiled Works
Re: [3.P] What makes a ninja?
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2012, 12:18:47 AM »
I think that we can agree the black suit was not traditional.
"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down."

Offline bhu

  • Uncle Kittie
  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 16306
  • Fnord bitches
    • View Profile
Re: [3.P] What makes a ninja?
« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2012, 12:26:22 AM »
From what I remember there isn't any written evidence for the ninja-to or the traditional black suit.  They were disguised as civilians or wore armor if they expected fighting (though hard evidence for armor is scarce too).

Offline Captnq

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1602
  • Haters gonna hate. Dragons gonna drag.
    • View Profile
    • Ask the Captain
Re: [3.P] What makes a ninja?
« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2012, 01:01:13 AM »
Clearly you have not read Secrets of The Ninja (available in PDF.)

Here is the book review:

This e-book contains all the secrets of the ninja that no one else knows but true ninjas. Learn
these secrets and you can be a ninja, even if you're still in high school and living at home.
You can do badass ninja stuff, like climb walls and even crawl on the ceiling and drop down
on your victim and cut their throat with a ninja belt buckle knife before they even know what
hit them.
You can be invisible and knock out your enemy and even give him a ninja psychic punch. You
can knock him out with the secret ninja psychic punch before he can even be close enough to
reach you! Who cares how much bigger he is! He's on his ass like that [snap] and the ninja
(you) is already climbing away up the walls of a dark alley.
You get to learn how to kill with ninja stars. Ancient ninjas in Japan used to buy these in
secret ninja markets, actually not much different from the suburban outdoor flea markets
where some of the best ninja stars manufactured today can be found. Who cares if the other
guy has a gun? You can throw a ninja star over a hundred yards away and in less than a
second, like when he blinks, you hit him with such force that he doesnt even see as the ninja
star kills him because it hits him in his blind spot, right between the eyes. and it's like halfway
into his skull, so he can't see it. He wont even know a ninja killed him, it'll have to be
someone else to tell him that it was a ninja who killed him because he would never know
otherwise.
And the ninja just doesn't care. He's totally psycho. Ninja blood runs through his veins, and he
dresses all in black.
All the ninja secrets that no one knows are here in this e-book.
Please do not share this e-book with enemies of ninjas.
PS: about the only thing that sucks is that you have wear those secret ninja shoes with the big
toe sticking out. but i think you can hide it with a bigger pair of shoes on top so your ninja
secret that you are a secret ninja stays secret.
If you have questions about 3.5 D&D, you might want to look at the:
Encyclopedia Vinculum Draconis

Currently: Podcasting

Offline veekie

  • Spinner of Fortunes
  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5423
  • Chaos Dice
    • View Profile
Re: [3.P] What makes a ninja?
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2012, 01:32:10 AM »
From what I remember there isn't any written evidence for the ninja-to or the traditional black suit.  They were disguised as civilians or wore armor if they expected fighting (though hard evidence for armor is scarce too).
Black suit or specialized weapons were a product of theater, but actual identity and deeds are murky precisely because of what they do. A ninja you know anything about is a ninja that screwed up.

Reasoning from the practical level(rather than historical), ninja are as likely to work for a specific lord as for general mercenaries. In the latter case, trust is a serious issue, your personal spies and assassins can be trusted more to do their job rather than sell you out. While they perform dishonorable jobs, I rather doubt political leaders give much of a crap as long as they can keep it unassociated with them. Heck, practically speaking, if you were to have an actual ninja tradition you more or less need to tie yourself to a certain line of leaders for support, and some level of protection against being rooted out, as mercenary ninjas would be the sort of danger you'd want to be rid of if you aren't in charge of them.

Gear wise, disguised, concealed or improvised weapons and armor seems to be par for the course. The key thing is getting there undetected and then offing your target. This gives a wide variety of approaches, most common work tools can be weaponized with a little work, while poison and the like do a lot without risking a straight fight with a professional soldier. Pretty unlikely to have actual swords though, swords are costly to have and to craft, difficult to conceal and practically impossible to explain away. So you get shuriken and needles(concealable and ranged, so you can do a poisoned hit and run), you get kunai and other sharpened farm tools, you get chain weapons wrapped around the body, you get weighted sleeves and other enhanced clothing, etc. Of course, unarmed combat as well, as the final resort.
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
It's a god-eat-god world.

Procrastination is the thief of time; Year after year it steals, till all are fled,
And to the mercies of a moment leaves; The vast concerns of an eternal scene.

Offline littha

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2952
  • +1 Holy Muffin
    • View Profile
Re: [3.P] What makes a ninja?
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2012, 10:22:38 AM »
Also, later on Grenades and land mines. Possibly filled with poison or blinding powder

Offline veekie

  • Spinner of Fortunes
  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5423
  • Chaos Dice
    • View Profile
Re: [3.P] What makes a ninja?
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2012, 12:05:25 PM »
Well as with any 'honorless'(probably goes by their own code, true lack of ethical standards don't happen that easily) assassins they'd use literally anything that works, as long as they can confirm the kill and keep the collateral acceptable.
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
It's a god-eat-god world.

Procrastination is the thief of time; Year after year it steals, till all are fled,
And to the mercies of a moment leaves; The vast concerns of an eternal scene.

Offline Yirrare

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 213
  • Vano Runca - Best NPC name ever!
    • View Profile
Re: [3.P] What makes a ninja?
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2012, 06:22:45 AM »
This thread needs more true epic ninja metal. And seeing how I know but one band in that genre, here is some Ninja Magic.

Best Regards
Yirrare


Offline Amechra

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4560
  • Thread Necromancy a specialty
    • View Profile
Re: [3.P] What makes a ninja?
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2012, 08:45:14 PM »
The black suit was used in theatre because that's what stagehands wore.

Because, if I remember correctly, some forms of traditional japanese theatre just had their stagehands walk around on stage for the purposes of special effects, and, well, theatre-goers where essentially trained to ignore them.

So, if you wanted a surprise assassination, you just used the guy in a stagehand costume.

It would be the equivalent of a chair stabbing someone, pretty much.
"There is happiness for those who accept their fate, there is glory for those that defy it."

"Now that everyone's so happy, this is probably a good time to tell you I ate your parents."

Offline nijineko

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 2413
  • two strange quarks short of a graviton....
    • View Profile
    • TwinSeraphim
Re: [3.P] What makes a ninja?
« Reply #30 on: December 02, 2012, 08:58:40 PM »
thank you for your patience.

the book i was reading was, "Ninja: The True Story of Japan's Secret Warrior Cult" by Stephen Turnbull who is a well-versed historian on japanese culture.

it is praised as being a collection of accurate historical facts, such as exist. it does not really get into the modern transition from the samurai castle-breakers, special forces units in armies, and later the mercenary clans of iga and koga... to the modern conception of the ninja, so some will find it a dry read, and lacking in answers to certain subjects.

the author's credits are extensive, including being a consultant for the Shogun:Total War video game.

i personally found it informative, and it cleared up several misconceptions.

as i mentioned, early ninjas were actually samurai, some of whom specialized in castle-breaking, others were special forces style units in armies. only later came the assassin/mercenary additions to the repertoire of the ninja.



that would be a kabuki stagehand costume. they still use it to this day, also puppeteers use something similar, iirc.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2012, 09:00:31 PM by nijineko »

Offline ImperatorK

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2313
  • Chara did nothing wrong.
    • View Profile
    • Kristof Imperator YouTube Channel
Re: [3.P] What makes a ninja?
« Reply #31 on: December 02, 2012, 09:49:49 PM »
Magic is for weaklings.

Alucard: "*snif snif* Huh? Suddenly it reeks of hypocrisy in here. Oh, if it isn't the Catholic Church. And what's this? No little Timmy glued to your crotch. Progress!"
My YT channel - LoL gameplay

Offline Solo

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1778
  • Sorcelator Supreme
    • View Profile
    • Solo's Compiled Works
Re: [3.P] What makes a ninja?
« Reply #32 on: December 02, 2012, 11:02:55 PM »
Why don't we just ask a ninja?
"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down."

Offline bhu

  • Uncle Kittie
  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 16306
  • Fnord bitches
    • View Profile
Re: [3.P] What makes a ninja?
« Reply #33 on: December 02, 2012, 11:15:32 PM »
Isn't there some controversy over turnbull ?

A quick google of his name brings up some pretty insulting posts.

Examples:
http://shogun-yashiki.blogspot.com/2011/08/stephen-turnbull-slayer-of-ronin.html

http://forums.samurai-archives.com/viewtopic.php?t=1099

He seems to be a mildly polarizing figure

Offline nijineko

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 2413
  • two strange quarks short of a graviton....
    • View Profile
    • TwinSeraphim
Re: [3.P] What makes a ninja?
« Reply #34 on: December 03, 2012, 12:18:41 AM »
interesting. i was not aware of that.

*shrugs*

a friend i studied a bit of ninjutsu with recommended that book.

Offline Solo

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1778
  • Sorcelator Supreme
    • View Profile
    • Solo's Compiled Works
Re: [3.P] What makes a ninja?
« Reply #35 on: December 03, 2012, 03:15:09 AM »
a friend i studied a bit of ninjutsu with recommended that book.
What country are you from?
"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down."

Offline Andion Isurand

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • An Anomaly of The Art
    • View Profile
    • MageRune - Andion Isurand's Hombrew Blog
Re: [3.P] What makes a ninja?
« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2012, 05:10:10 AM »
I've been working on and off, at brewing some feats to plug into the existing 3.5 ninja, if anyone is interested to see and comment.

Ninja Feats

Offline Elevevated Beat

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 366
  • My DJ scratches like he's wearing itchy wool.
    • View Profile
Re: [3.P] What makes a ninja?
« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2012, 07:25:55 PM »
Isn't there some controversy over turnbull ?

A quick google of his name brings up some pretty insulting posts.

Examples:
http://shogun-yashiki.blogspot.com/2011/08/stephen-turnbull-slayer-of-ronin.html

http://forums.samurai-archives.com/viewtopic.php?t=1099

He seems to be a mildly polarizing figure

If you look further through the initial posts and opening paragraph on those links, you'll see that he eventually comes as a highly recommended author to anyone who is just starting to read up on the subject.
The main gripe people seem to have with him is that he has been known to recycle content and get dates incorrect, and often doesn't use foot/end notes (which seems to be more a publisher fault as opposed to his own). The foundations and general research that he does actually seems, according to people who read his stuff, solid.
Do you know how long someone who is as sarcastic as I am would last in prison? Suuuuuuch a long time.

Bhu: Favorite quote of the day: “I’ll make love to you like a confused bear. Awkwardly. And in a manner that suggests I’m trying to escape.”

Offline bhu

  • Uncle Kittie
  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 16306
  • Fnord bitches
    • View Profile
Re: [3.P] What makes a ninja?
« Reply #38 on: December 03, 2012, 08:59:41 PM »
I did read further.  I also read more than just those two examples, but even in the above you get this:


'Minor errors are one thing. Wholesale lack of editing and such is another, as is blatantly wrong information. I've seen books (that I unfortunately paid for) where he flip-flops back and forth between Oda Nobuo and Nobukatsu as Nobunaga's sons, and then his brothers--completely unacceptable to me. His early work was better, but his recent books, if not highly specific (Kakure Kirishitan, or the Samurai Invasion about the Korean war), look like he wrote them stream of consciousness with no editor looking over it at all before it went to press. '

I just posted the links that didn't descend into the usual mouth frothing common to internet arguments...

Offline Elevevated Beat

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 366
  • My DJ scratches like he's wearing itchy wool.
    • View Profile
Re: [3.P] What makes a ninja?
« Reply #39 on: December 03, 2012, 09:33:25 PM »
I did read further.  I also read more than just those two examples, but even in the above you get this:


'Minor errors are one thing. Wholesale lack of editing and such is another, as is blatantly wrong information. I've seen books (that I unfortunately paid for) where he flip-flops back and forth between Oda Nobuo and Nobukatsu as Nobunaga's sons, and then his brothers--completely unacceptable to me. His early work was better, but his recent books, if not highly specific (Kakure Kirishitan, or the Samurai Invasion about the Korean war), look like he wrote them stream of consciousness with no editor looking over it at all before it went to press. '

I just posted the links that didn't descend into the usual mouth frothing common to internet arguments...

The same person in the next sentence also says

(click to show/hide)

The general consensus by the end of that thread was that he is, as said above (in spoiler) and in my previous post, a "fabulous introduction". I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just saying that for this thread's original purpose he would be a good and informative read.

As an aside, that particular post was made in 2007. And apparently his works have steadily improved since around 2006. (According to the first link you posted) So by now, who knows?  :???
Do you know how long someone who is as sarcastic as I am would last in prison? Suuuuuuch a long time.

Bhu: Favorite quote of the day: “I’ll make love to you like a confused bear. Awkwardly. And in a manner that suggests I’m trying to escape.”