quick incorporeality rules check

[rot42]

Here is my understanding of what happens when characters try to do various things to an incorporeal creature. Have I understood the rules correctly? Is there anything obvious that I am missing?

1) mundane sword: no effect. none. not even a flanking bonus.
2) magic sword: 50% miss chance
3) targeted with a Slow spell: affected as normal (nondamaging effect without an attack roll)
4) Hail of Stone spell on the area: 50% miss chance (physical rocks created)
5) Fireball: 50% miss chance ([Fire] is not positive or negative energy or a [Force] effect)
6) in the area of a red dragon's breath weapon: as Fireball
7) Shocking Grasp: 50% miss chance for the attack roll but not another one for the damage (only one miss chance)
8) Touch of Fatigue: 50% miss chance (nondamaging effect with an attack roll)

[Vicerious]

Incorporeal subtype

Being incorporeal is not a 50% miss chance, it's a 50% chance to negate damage from a corporeal source.  Roll to hit as normal, then roll d% to see if the damage is negated.  This is an important distinction for several reasons:

• Non-damaging effects that trigger on a hit, such as Sudden Stunning, still work.
• Blind Fight doesn't help against incorporeal creatures.
• Non-damaging effects that require an attack roll work normally.
• Being incorporeal is neither cover nor concealment, so being incorporeal by itself does not prevent sneak attacks or attacks of opportunity.

• No.  It is immune to non-magical attacks, but you still threaten it as normal.  You define your threatened area by your reach, not by any of the qualities your opponents may have.  Likewise, flanking is determined by positioning, not the opponent's qualities.  Unless the incorporeal creature has Uncanny Dodge or similar, it can still be flanked regardless of what weapons you're using.
• Yes, but it's not a miss chance.
• Yes.
• Yes, but it's because it's a corporeal source, not because of its damage type.  It's not a miss chance.
• Yes, but it's not a miss chance.
• Yes, but it's not a miss chance.
• Sort of.  You roll your attack as normal, and then there's a 50% chance your damage is negated on a hit.
• No.  Attack roll as normal, affected as normal on a hit.

[rot42]

I agree that that is an important distinction, thank you for clarifying.

[NunoM]

I'm sorry for "piggybacking" on your thread, but does this mean that a "Ray of enfeeblement" would still work as normal, because it inflicts a penalty to STR and not damage?

[Vicerious]

I'm sorry for "piggybacking" on your thread, but does this mean that a "Ray of enfeeblement" would still work as normal, because it inflicts a penalty to STR and not damage?

Yep.

[NunoM]

Sweet!

Can an incorporeal creature become entangled by the spell "Entangle"? In other words, are the entangling plants and roots considered a magic or a physical attack?

[SorO_Lost]

Incorporeal subtype

Being incorporeal is not a 50% miss chance, it's a 50% chance to negate damage from a corporeal source.

I'm going to stop you right there. Because according to the RC and FAQ, you're off by a feat beats there. In fact, by your logic you could grapple an Incorpereal Creature despite them being able to walk through your body which alone should have raise a MASSIVE Red Flag

Which is probably why The FAQ actually calls out, no you [a corporeal creature] cannot Grapple an Incorporeal creature on page 81 under the Black Evard's Tentacle Spell question.

RC updated things as

HARMING
An incorporeal creature can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It’s immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Even when hit by spells (including touch spells) or magic weapons, an incorporeal creature has a 50% chance to ignore any damage from a corporeal source—except for positive energy, negative energy, force effects such as magic missile, or attacks made with ghost touch weapons. Although it isn’t strictly a magical attack, holy water can damage incorporeal undead, but a hit with holy water has a 50% chance of not affecting such a creature.

For attacks that require attack rolls, the chance to ignore damage is treated as a 50% miss chance. If a creature receives miss chances from multiple sources, such as from being incorporeal and having concealment, they don’t stack. Only the highest miss chance applies.

Nondamaging effects affect incorporeal creatures normally unless such effects require corporeal targets to function (such as implosion) or they create a corporeal effect that incorporeal creatures are normally unaffected by (such as web or wall of stone).

Since it is treated as a miss, any effect that requires you to hit your opponent fails. Which Sudden Stunning absolutely does. It also means you need to roll that 50% miss chance for Ray of Enfeeblement.

Also under Attacks

An incorporeal creature can’t trip or grapple, nor can it be tripped or grappled. In fact, it can’t perform any physical act that moves or manipulates a corporeal opponent or that foe’s equipment, nor is it subject to such acts. An incorporeal creature that attempts to grapple or move another incorporeal creature or object uses its Charisma modifier for rolls on which a Strength modifier normally applies.

[Kethrian]

So if you had a Ghost Touch spiked chain, could you attempt to trip it due to the chain counting as incorporeal?  Could you grapple it if you're wearing Gauntlets of Ghost Fighting (ignores incorporeal miss chance on all attacks and spells, deal an extra 1d6 damage vs incorporeal with melee attacks)?

[SorO_Lost]

So if you had a Ghost Touch spiked chain, could you attempt to trip it due to the chain counting as incorporeal?  Could you grapple it if you're wearing Gauntlets of Ghost Fighting (ignores incorporeal miss chance on all attacks and spells, deal an extra 1d6 damage vs incorporeal with melee attacks)?

On Trip, yes as Incorporeality is fully affected by Ghost Touch and also this statement for further clarification on Trip:

Given that being prone means you are lying on the ground (PH 311), who can be prone? Can oozes be prone? What about creatures with no limbs like snakes? What about incorporeal creatures?
Anybody can be “prone.” Creatures that use limbs for locomotion can use a free action to drop prone and must use a move action to stand up again. Something with no motive limbs, such as a snake, can go prone or “stand up” as a free action. Such creatures might want to become prone to gain an Armor Class bonus against ranged attacks. (Although giving something like a gelatinous cube that option defies common sense and should not be allowed.) Officially, there’s an attack of opportunity any time a creature stands up. The Sage, however, heartily recommends no attack of opportunity when a snake or similar creature “stands up.”

Reasonably Ghost Touch Gauntlets would work, mindful you're into an area not covered by the rules as no exactly notation on how to grapple is over used (for instance a headlock doesn't hold an opponent with your hands). But I'd rule yes as plenty of hand based holds exist.

Just remember that RC/FAQ exemplify three different Conjuration[Creation] spells despite two of them having durations other than Instantaneous meaning they are still considered magical objects. So real catch is the fine line of what CC can or cannot affect an Incorpereal Target, to which it certainly seems Conjuration[Creation] it self doesn't and under Attacks neither would Entangle (bushes and weeds != force). Whereas Glitterdust's Blindness will work but maybe the dust portion (-20 hide checks) may not. Ask your DM for further clarification in what may or may not work in this area.