Author Topic: Elder Titan  (Read 13045 times)

Offline oslecamo

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Elder Titan
« on: December 28, 2012, 05:31:31 PM »
Elder Titan


HD:d8
Level Bab Fort Ref Will Feature
1 +1+2 +0 +2 Primeval Forefather Body, Change Shape, Least Titan Magic
2 +2 +3 +0+3Elder Soul, +1 Str
3 +3+3+1+3Lesser Titan Magic, +1 Con
4 +4+4+1+4Hammer and Nail, +1 Cha
5 +5+4+1+4Advanced Titan Magic, +1 Str
6 +6+5+2+5Growth, +1 Con
7 +7+5+2+5Adept Titan Magic, +1 Cha
8 +8+6+2+6Puny Insects, +1 Str
9 +9+6+3+6Greater Titan Magic, +1 Con
10 +10+7+3+7Growth, Giant Shape, +1 Cha
11 +11+7 +3+7Master Titan Magic, +1 Int, +1 Wis
12 +12+8+4+8Elder Skin, +1 Str
13 +13+8+4+8Lord Titan Magic, +1 Con
14 +14+9+4+9Growth,Greater Giant Shape, +1 Cha
15 +15+ 9+5+9Supreme Titan Magic, +1 Int, +1 Wis
16 +16 +10+5+10You got my Attention, +1 Str
17 +17 +10+5+10Cosmic Titan Magic, +1 Con
18 +18 +11+6+11Growth,Crush Insects, +1 Cha
19 +19 +11 +6+11Elder Knowledge, +1 Str, +1 Con
20 +20 +12 +6+12Ancient Titan, +1 Int, +1 Wis, +1 Cha
21 +20 +12 +6+12Least Elder Titan Magic, +1 Str, +1 Con
22 +21 +13 +7+13Lesser Elder Titan Magic, Ancient Focus, +1 Int, +1 Wis, +1 Cha
23 +21  +13 +7+13Advanced Elder Titan Magic, Cosmic Servants, +1 Str, +1 Con
24 +22 + 14 +8+14Adept Elder Titan Magic, Devastating Hammer, +1 Int, +1 Wis, +1 Cha
25 +22 + 14 +8+14Greater Elder Titan Magic, Cosmic Throw, +1 Str, +1 Con
26 +23 + 15 +9+15Master Elder Titan Magic, Efficient Eradication, +1 Int, +1 Wis, +1 Cha
27 +23 + 15 +9+15Lord Elder Titan Magic, Cosmic Blow, +1 Str, +1 Con
28 +24 + 16 +10+16Supreme, Elder Titan Magic, Elemental Adaptation, +1 Int, +1 Wis, +1 Cha
29 +24 + 16 +10+16Cosmic Elder Titan Magic, Primordial Onslaught, +1 Str, +1 Con
30 +25 + 17 +11+17Contemplate the Eons, +1 Str, +1 Con, +1 Int, +1 Wis, +1 Cha
Skills:4+int modifier per level, quadruple at firt level, Class skills are: Balance, Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (any), Listen, Sense Motive, Speak Language, Spellcraft, Spot, Swim

Proficiencies:ISimple weapons, Warhammers.

Features:
Primeval Forefather Body: The Elder Titan loses all other racial traits and becomes a medium sized outsider with all the related traits (basically darkvision 60 feet). It's a medium sized creature with base speed of 30 feet. 
 
In addition, the Elder Titan gains a bonus to Nat armor equal to  its Con modifier.

Change Shape: As a standard action 1/day per HD the Elder Titan can assume the form of any medium or small humanoid, as per the change shape ability.  Returning to the Elder Titan's normal form does not expend a use of this ability.

Titan Magic: The Elder titan becomes able to use certain SLAs a certain number of times per day. Any save DCs are 10+1/2 HD+Cha mod.
(click to show/hide)

Elder Soul: Sometimes inaccurately perceived as less cognitive or even less intelligent than their more lively cousins, the truth is that elder titans have simply moved beyond the joys of physical existence and revel now almost exclusively in the pleasures of the mind.

At 2nd level the Elder Titan picks one of the following options
(click to show/hide)


Ability Score Increase: The Elder Titan gains a permanent +1 to
Str at levels 2, 5, 8, 12, 16, 19, 21, 23, 25, 27, 29, 30
Con at levels 3, 6, 9, 13, 17, 19, 21, 23, 25, 27, 29, 30
Cha at levels 4, 7, 10, 14, 18, 20, 22, 24, 26, 28, 30
Int and Wis at levels 11, 15, 20, 22, 24, 26, 28, 30

For a total of +6 Str, +6 Con, +6 Cha, +2 Int, +2 Wis at 20th level and +12 Str, +12 Con, + 11 Cha, +7 Int, +7 Wis at level 30.

Hammer and Nail: Elder Titans have not completely forsaken their connections with their younger counterparts. At 4rd level 1/day per HD when the Elder Titan hits an enemy with a warhammer or Javelin it may cast use of its spells or SLAs with a casting time of a standard action or less either in the target or himself as an immediate action. In the case of a Summon Monster SLA, he may use it as an immediate action to bring the creature(s) adjacent to the struck target. If the Warhammer/Javelin had an enanchment bonus to attack and damage rolls, add it to the DC of the spell. The Elder Titan needs a free hand to use Hammer and Nail.

Growth: At 6th, 10th, 14th  and 18th levels the  Elder Titan grows one size category. His base speed also increases by 30 feet every time he grows.

Puny Insects: at 8th level enemies trying to attack the Elder Titan or trying to affect the area where he is take a -1 penalty on their CL/IL/ML/similar for every size category they're smaller than the Elder Titan. If this would recuce the range of their attack below what was needed to hit the Elder Giant it simply fails.

Giant Shape: At 10th level the Elder Titan can now use its Change Shape to assume the forms of large giants as well.

Elder Skin: At 12th level the Elder Titan gains DR/magic equal to ½ its HD and SR equal to 11+HD, which may be rised or lowered at any time as a free action even if it isn't its turns.

Greater Giant Shape: At 14th level the Elder Titan can now use its Change Shape to assume the form of huge giants as well.

You got my Attention: At 16th level the Elder Titan adds his highest Mental Stat mod as an insight bonus to AC and warhammer and javelin damage rolls.

Crush Insects:At 18th level when the Elder Titan attacks with a Warhammer or Javelin, it may choose to affect a 20 feet radius with the attack. Roll once and compare to the AC of every enemy smaller than the Elder Titan inside the area (ignoring any miss chances, including mirror image and similar, if the targets are two or more size categories smaller than the Elder Titan). This can be combined with Hammers and Nail to affect all struck targets with a single spell/SLA that would usually affect a single target as an immediate action, affecting all struck enemies with a single use expended.

Elder Knowledge: Those that know more show off the less. At 19th level the Elder Titan no longer needs verbal or somatic components to cast his spells and adds all his mental stat mods to Knowledge checks instead of just Int.

Ancient Titan: At 20th level the Elder Titan's DR is doubled and becomes DR/epic. In addition if an effect other than raw damage would instantly kill or prevent the Elder Titan from taking actions, it instead becomes simply unable to take actions for 1d4 rounds (unless the other effect would last less time). The only way to finish the Elder Titan now is with raw damage. If the Elder Titan becomes able to act while at negative HP or somehow makes itself immune to raw damage, he loses this ability. The Elder Titan also gains an extra swift/immediate action per round.

Elder Titan Magic: At 21st level and every Elder Titan level until 29th the Elder Titan becomes able to use the SLAs of one of its levels of Titan Magic at will as shown on the table. He can now also use Hammer and Nail at will.

Ancient Focus: At 22nd level the Elder Titan always halves all miss chances (including mirror image and similar),  hardness and DR of opponents when using a warhammer or javelin, plus ignoring all cover and concealment with such weapons.

Cosmic Servants: At 23rd level all summons of the Elder Titan gain an insight bonus to attack rolls, damage rolls, saves, ability checks, ability DCs and AC equal to your highest mental stat mod.

Devastating Hammer: At 24th level enemies struck by a Warhammer wielded by the Elder Titan must make a Fort save with DC 10+1/2 HD+Str mod or be instantly destroyed. If the attack was a sucessful Crit add your highest Mental Stat mod to the DC. The Elder Titan also has 50% chance of ignoring any immunity to crits with Warhammer attacks.

Cosmic Throw: At 25th level javelins thrown by the Elder Titan have no range limit as long as he can spot the target, and he may actually combine each thrown javelin with either a Plane Shift or Greater Teleport effect as a free action to send it into another plane or allow it to automatically bypass one barrier, respectively.

Efficient Eradication: Whetever an eldar titan kills his foe or merely drives it away is inconsequential, so long as the result of the fight is a return to peace and quiet. At 26th level enemies that run away from the Elder Titan (aka willingly moving away from its senses range after having attacked him) can no longer take any action against the Elder Titan until either a century has passed, the Elder Titan attacks them out of their own will or they've gained a level, whatever comes first.

Cosmic Blow:At 27th level the Elder Giant doubles its Crit threat with Warhammers and Javelins, their crit multiplier increases by 1 plus his Javelins now have 50% chance of ignoring immunity to Crits. Whenever he threatens a crit but fails to confirm it he may use Hammers and Nail as a free action.

Elemental Adaptation: Because of their cerebral nature, elder titans are acutely whitdrawn, taking up residence in the farthest corners of the multiverse, desolate places inhospitable to most others where they are unlikely to be disturbed. Eventually the Elder Titan takes on many characteristics of the very enviroment in which he dwells, allowing his body to alter over time as he becomes a very part of that place. At 28th level the Elder Titan is always immune to any ill effects of any enviroment he enters. With 1 hour of meditation he can then further adapt to a specific kind enviroment, his body changing to look just like another part of the scenery. This allows the Elder Titan to fool all senses and divinations while he remains perfectly stationary. If he casts a spell/SLA or any other action that doesn't demand movement it takes a sucessful spot or search check against a DC of 20+HD+Cha mod to notice the Elder Titan is there as the source.

Primordial Onslaught: At 29th level when performing a full attack, the Elder Titan may use Hammer and Nail with every sucessful attack with a Javelin or Warhammer as a free action.

Contemplate the Eons: Elder Titans once fought the first gods and the dawn of civilizations, but after countless millenia they grew less physically aware of their immediate surroundings. They still perceive well enough, for they consider the multiverse to be their library, a place to garner knowledge for knowledge's own sake. At 30th level the Elder Titan can, a number of times per day equal to his Cha mod, cast any spell from his casting list (any wizard spell for an ancient mage, any cleric spell for an ancient priest) by expending one of his prepared spells of the same level. He may instantly add any metamagics he knows to those spells for free as well. If he combines this with Hammer and Nail and the spell allows a save, it ignores any immunity on the target, but said target gets a +5 bonus on their save if they would normally be immune to that spell, and don't suffer any ill effects on a sucessful save.  Any expensive gold and exp costs are halved for those spells.

(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 03:46:03 PM by oslecamo »

Offline FireInTheSky

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Re: Elder Titan
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2012, 09:15:38 AM »
Features:
Primeval Forefather Body: The Elder Titan loses all other racial traits and becomes a medium sized outsider with all the related traits (basically darkvision 60 feet). It's a medium sized creature with base speed of 30 feet.  An Elder Titan
 
In addition, the Elder Titan gains a bonus to Nat armor equal to  its Con modifier.

...

For
Quote
Change Shape: As a standard action 1/day per HD the Elder Titan can assume the form of any medium or small humanoid as the change shape ability and back.
How about this rewording:
Quote from: FireInTheSky
Change Shape: As a standard action 1/day per HD the Elder Titan can assume the form of any medium or small humanoid, as per the change shape ability.  Returning to the Elder Titan's normal form does not expend a use of this ability.

Offline Daedroth

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Re: Elder Titan
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2012, 09:59:12 AM »
Quote
Ancient Mage-The Elder Titan learns and cast spells as a wizard of its Elder Titan level-1, except it cannot specialize and instead of a spellbook it must engrave its spells on a warhammer. It can fit as many spells on a warhammer as a regular spellbook, and said warhammer must be used as an extra focus for any spells cast. The Elder Titan may engrave spells on other warhammers as if in other spellbooks, but can only “study” one of them each day. The warhammer can be further enanched as a regular weapon, and the Elder Titan can enanche a warhammer engraved by himself at half the regular exp/gold cost, including making it masterwork, adding special crafting methods, change its material and/or size, altough such benefits then only apply to the Elder Titan himself. Any who slay the Elder Titan may reclaim this warhammer for themselves unlocking its full power (can be used as a spellbook, but doesn't grant spells by itself). If anyone then slays the slayer the ownership passes again. If the Elder Titan multiclasses as a wizard it may choose to keep advancing this spellcasting instead of gaining regular 1st level wizard casting.


Comparison Wizard vs Elder Titan (lvl 20)

Pros of Elder Titan
- Much better hd (d8), bab(Full) and fort save(good).
- A bit more int at level 20 (Not much, but still a benefit)
- A lot of SLA
- Reduces the CL of enemy spellcasters.
- Much better BSF (Huge Con and Str bonus)
- SR, unlike the srd RAW one, that SR has not significant drawbacks.
- Better Skill Points

Cons
- One caster level less (Easy for the Elder Titan to retrieve anyway)
- One 8th and 9th spells less (I'm sure the SLA can compensate this very well)
- Can't specialize (Ok, a lot of wizard builds dont specialize)
- A Wizard can take a Cheesy PrC
- Not virtually infinite spells known (Wizard don't have that in actual gameplay anyways...)

I think the benefits are much greater than the drawbacks and your monster is better than a Wizard.

Now I've lost it, I know I can kill. The truth exists beyond the Gate!

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Elder Titan
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2012, 03:46:52 PM »
Fixed typo and added FireInTheSky's cleaner text, thanks!

As for vs regular wizard, you missed some key Cons
-The Elder Titan needs to hold his hammer-book to cast his spells. So not only a good disarm/sunder can take off your  delayed wizard casting, you have to expose your most precious possession in battle.
-Five less metamagic/item creation feats, including the always handy 1st level scribe scroll.
-No familiar, which altough isn't that good by itself, can be swapped for a LOT of cool stuff.
-No specializing means no cool alternate specialist stuff like abjurant jaunt.
-Wizard is actually getting a base race.
-Wizards can take multiple Cheesy PrCs, starting right at 2nd level with the super-specialist if I remember well.


Offline Daedroth

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Re: Elder Titan
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2012, 05:24:14 PM »
-The Elder Titan needs to hold his hammer-book to cast his spells. So not only a good disarm/sunder can take off your  delayed wizard casting, you have to expose your most precious possession in battle.

Colosal size, big str and a locked gauntlet will make the first very dificult.
Colosal Hammer, a Hardening Spell and a Greater Magic Weapon one (or a +X hammer) will make eaiser to crush the wizard than to crush that adamantium hammer. (You can say that a good Wizard will not let his enemies even reach him, but sames applies with the Elder Titan and his Hammer)

Quote
-Five less metamagic/item creation feats, including the always handy 1st level scribe scroll.
-Wizards can take multiple Cheesy PrCs, starting right at 2nd level with the super-specialist if I remember well.

Both true, but never both at once, if you take a PrC no metamagic feats.

Quote
-No familiar, which altough isn't that good by itself, can be swapped for a LOT of cool stuff.
-No specializing means no cool alternate specialist stuff like abjurant jaunt.
-Wizard is actually getting a base race.

You are right with that, nothing to say about that 3 ones.

Now I've lost it, I know I can kill. The truth exists beyond the Gate!

Offline BearsAreBrown

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Re: Elder Titan
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2012, 05:43:00 PM »
Oslecamo I agree it's not on line with a Wizard with PrCs but it is pretty close to a Wizard 20. If Wizard casting was knocked to -2 I think that could solve the issue?

Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

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Re: Elder Titan
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2012, 07:37:11 PM »
I don't think knocking casting down another level is a good idea.

Can the Titan scribe spells from scrolls or other spellbooks onto its hammer? Just take away that capability and leave it with the 3+int mod 1st level spells and the 2/lv selected spells. That puts it in line with the Elder Priest and the Angel class.

In any case, the Elder Titan is significantly more MAD than a wizard and things like growth are not necessarily pros in the Titan/Wizard comparrison.

Offline Vicorth

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Re: Elder Titan
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2012, 08:29:44 PM »
I love it as a very worthy (if hard to keep track of) opponent for Epic parties. The thematic feel of it is great... phenomenal cosmic power, just wants to be alone with his thoughts.
"I wish to be teleported to a massive unguarded treasure horde."
-A voice rumbles in the dark-"Hello, my name is Unguar'ded" -as the towering form of the intelligent, half-gold dragon, vampiric, paragon Tarrasque steps out of the shadows-

Offline Daedroth

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Re: Elder Titan
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2012, 08:36:59 PM »

Can the Titan scribe spells from scrolls or other spellbooks onto its hammer? Just take away that capability and leave it with the 3+int mod 1st level spells and the 2/lv selected spells. That puts it in line with the Elder Priest and the Angel class.

Yes, he can.

Quote
In any case, the Elder Titan is significantly more MAD than a wizard and...

Ability bonus make that a very small problem.

Quote
...things like growth are not necessarily pros in the Titan/Wizard comparrison.

Thats why it isn't in the pros list.
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Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

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Re: Elder Titan
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2012, 03:46:01 AM »
The ability bonuses are worse than what a wizard can expect to get from its base race for most of the class. Elder Titan doesn't get its first point of Int until lv11. The cha bonuses do not make up for actually having to care about cha as a stat and the str bonuses are irrelevant unless the Titan is trying to go gish, in which case it's even more MAD than it already was. Con is always nice but it doesn't make the Titan any better at being a wizard and you have to wait until lv9 before you outpace a Gnome. 

The MAD issue is decidedly not off set by the stat boosts, esp if you compare with other classes in this project.

In any case, limiting the wizard titan to spells gained through the class should be an ample nerf, and more consistent with the priest titan and other, similar classes in the project.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Elder Titan
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2012, 05:58:01 AM »
Before anything else I would like to point out to the Marrutact that gets non-delayed wizard casting just with the limitation of having to hold a special staff. Plus one of the Elder Titan's main stick is studiouds dude, so learning spells stays.

Anyway do the math, a regular spellbook has just 100 pages. Each spell takes one page per spell level. Cantrips alone take 1 page each (with splats that's probably more than half your space gone right there). The elder titan may be able to know a lot of spells, but come high levels each day he'll only be able to  prepare a very limited array of them. Want to prepare four diferent 9th level spells? That's 36 pages taken. Once you reach 9th level spellcasting, you can pretty much only prepare two diferent spells per level (92 pages), assuming you spent the resources to get a collection of hammer-books for multiple situations. The Ancient Priest knows less spells total, but can cherry pick from them at leisure every morning.

-The Elder Titan needs to hold his hammer-book to cast his spells. So not only a good disarm/sunder can take off your  delayed wizard casting, you have to expose your most precious possession in battle.

Colosal size, big str and a locked gauntlet will make the first very dificult.
Colosal Hammer, a Hardening Spell and a Greater Magic Weapon one (or a +X hammer) will make eaiser to crush the wizard than to crush that adamantium hammer. (You can say that a good Wizard will not let his enemies even reach him, but sames applies with the Elder Titan and his Hammer)
Point being that you need to defend both yourself and your hammer-book. And when you need multiple hammer-books if you want versatility as pointed above, well, that's a hell lot of adamantium.

Quote
-Five less metamagic/item creation feats, including the always handy 1st level scribe scroll.
-Wizards can take multiple Cheesy PrCs, starting right at 2nd level with the super-specialist if I remember well.

Both true, but never both at once, if you take a PrC no metamagic feats.
You're always losing the extra Scribe scroll tough.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 07:15:31 AM by oslecamo »

Offline Daedroth

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Re: Elder Titan
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2012, 06:17:48 AM »
Want to prepare four diferent 9th level spells? That's 45 pages right there.

9 x 4 is 36 not 45.
Anyways this is what i really wanted to say with the last point of my cons.

Quote
Point being that you need to defend both yourself and your hammer-book. And when you need multiple hammer-books if you want versatility as pointed above, well, that's a hell lot of adamantium.

Hardening Spell is Permanent so you can have virtually infinite hardened hammers.

Quote
Before anything else I would like to point out to the Marrutact that gets non-delayed wizard casting just with the limitation of having to hold a special staff. Plus one of the Elder Titan's main stick is studiouds dude, so learning spells stays.

Ok, point taken, no more discussion for my part.
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Offline Threadnaught

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Re: Elder Titan
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2012, 12:02:27 PM »
I'm just making an assumption here, but the first hammer is the only one you don't have to pay for to become Colossal right?
And each one must be the correct size for the Elder Titan to use as a warhammer of his size, to be able to use as a Spellbook?

How does an Elder Titan carry multiple hammers, when his size increases to Huge or larger anyway? A single hammer has got to be enough to take up a large portion of their extradimensional storage space.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Elder Titan
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2013, 07:03:34 AM »
Yes, only the first hammer gets free size upgrades (altough by the time you need more big ones you should be able to easily afford it).

However since you only need the hammer as a focus they don't need to be your proper wielding size. At least nothing in the rules says an huge giant that decides to become a wizard needs to have an huge spellbook. :p

Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

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Re: Elder Titan
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2013, 04:56:57 PM »
I'm now picturing a colossal Titan holding up a medium warhammer (between thumb and index finger) and going "don't make me use this!"