Chaos

[oslecamo]

Chaos Champion moved to the proper post.

[Concerned Ninja Citizen]

Now that I'm pretty much done building my Chaos Champion I can give some feedback (maybe. Most of my feedback is "squee, this class is teh awesomez!")

However:

Chaos Champion got posted twice. Once in its reserved post and once on the second page.

Word Bearer: Maybe have the rampage chance activate after a certain number of rounds rather than immediately. It will kinda suck to consistently have your summons beating on you at later levels (though issue could be partially remedied by being careful to summon things nearer your enemies than you.)

Hand of Destruction: Is the hand still capable of fine manipulation?

Ecstatic Duplication: If neither copy is slain and they do not reunite in 24 hrs, what happens? What if a character gained Ecstatic Duplication last level and thus loses it when they split? Can they still use the reuniting ability?

Iron Without: Can you draw weapons from the minor gift of chaos wargear list if you wish to?

Furious Charge: Should there be some kind of limit on the number of times the second ability can trigger? Just to prevent moving hundreds of miles in a single turn via a huge line of mooks commanded to target at range.

Blight Bringer: The champion can get any poison or disease from any dead body (kill a random orc, get 1d12 doses of megapede venom?) or are there restrictions? Is there a limit on how long the doses last?

[oslecamo]

Chaos champion post on this page removed (I acidentaly posted it here when it was meant to be edited in the first page).

Put in a 1-round clause of service from the demons for Word Bearer, altough the intention is more of making you sacrifice stuff to ensure a "controled" summon. Bringing them nearby the enemy and then making some distance works too of course.

Hand of destruction can still do other regular stuff.

If neither copy from Ectasic Duplication is slain, the ability simply doesn't have a time limit and you remain divided. You can still reunite even if you tecnically lost it.

Yes, Iron Whitout can draw lesser weapons if you want, clarified.

If you have the resources to set up an huge line of mooks commanded to target you at range while making sure there's always a clear path for you to charge trough, you deserve to move hundreds of miles in a single turn damnit!

Blight Bringer clarified, you can only retrieve poisons/diseases they naturally produced. No limit on how long they last tough.

[DavidWL]

These classes are super cool.  I vote that you continue working on the classes that you had planned to create

I will be posting thoughts when I get here!

[DavidWL]

Chaos Cultist

Overall, I really like these classes.

Some general thoughts
* Best to have some way to minimize die rolling ... especially if it would happen with every attack for example
* Good job giving so many cool flavorful abilities that are at the right power level

1 Additional Limb-the character gains one extra arm. In alternative, if the character has limbs with natural weapons, he may choose to gain one more of that kind, but such extra limb is incapable of fine manipulation, even  if the previous one was.

What does this do?  Do you get an additional attack if you do a natural attack?  What does it do if you have iterative?

9 Dimensional Instability-The servant of chaos connection to the physical realm begins to slip, his consciosuness segueing between real space and the Abyss. At times he appears to fade away entirely as he walks the otherworld of daemons and fell gods. Once per hour as an immediate action the servant of chaos may become Incorporeal. At the end of each of his turns roll a 1d12. If a 1 is rolled he becomes corporeal again. He cannot willingly dismiss this effect, and if he becomes material again while inside a solid object he is shunted to the nearest open space taking 1d6 damage for every 10 feet traveled.
Hatred-So raw is the servant of chaos anger that he can strike his foes from beyond the veil of reality. He can have his weapons count as having the ghost touch property.
Conspiracy -The servant of chaos spells and SLAs can  affect creatures on the material while incorporeal whitout problem.

This is probably too much ... especially since they can get this at 2nd level. 

15 Illusion of Normality-The servant of chaos looks completely normal,even if he is, in fact, a seething mass of mutation and corruption. The servant of chaos looks like a perfectly unremarkable member of its species regardless of his equipment and abilities, evn when he acts. So for example an human servant of chaos attacking with a flaming sword would look just like he was wielding a stick or cane to others, altough the damage inflicted would be pretty clear.  The servant of chaos may “desactivate” or “reactivate” this as an immediate action. At his choice he may choose to reveal his true nature just to some beings whitin view or back as an immediate action. A True Seeing effect reveals the ruse if the onlooker suceeds on a CL check with DC equal to HD.

Very cool and flavorful ability.

27 Strange Walk-The chaos cultist moves in strange manners, whetever from a distorted mind or actual unproportional limbs, but somehow those end up making him go faster! At the start of each turn roll 1d4. The chaos cultist's movement speeds increase by that amount times 5 feet.

A good example of an ability that adds a lot of die rolling ... If I were DMing, I'd say roll once at the beginning of each day ...

Metal Fist:
This oversized masterwork  gauntlet deals 1d10+1,5 Str damage for a medium creature and counts as two-handed for every benefical purposes like power attack, even if it's a single-hand weapon, but the wielder always acts at the end of the iniative count. It also deals an extra 1d8 damage for every 4 HD of the Chaos Cultist.

At 6 HD it ignores all cover,  hardness and DR.

At 12 HD it ignores half the Natural Armor, Armor and Shield Bonus from targets.

At 18 HD it gains a critical modifier of 18-20 x3.

Very nice.  And good balance of perks with last in initiative count.  How does this work mechanically?  I say "I plan to use my metal fist, and thus act last".  Then everyone else acts (maybe, for example, they all move out of my melee range), then I say, I change my mind and shoot my bow, but now last on the initiative count?

So I have to decide to use it, then hope it is still relevant?  It is fine if that is how it works, just want to be clear.

Martyrdoom
As an immediate action you can receive an attack that was aimed at an adjacent ally. You only take half damage, and if it allowed a save, you gain a +5 bonus on it.

At 6 HD you may even protect an adjacent ally against area effects, granting them the Evasion and Mettle abilities in return for you taking a -5 penalty on the save as an immediate action.

At 12 HD one men alone can stand against fate itself. As an immediate action, for 1 round all harmfull effects that would affect any adjacent creature are directed to your person. You only take half damage and gain a +5 bonus on any saves needed to make as a result of this ability.

At 18 HD you may perform the ultimate sacrifice. By puting yourself directly in harm's way, you lose your life but allow one an ally whitin view to take a fullround worth of actions with the oportunity created.

Cool ability.  It is, I think, the most powerful body guard ability I've seen, making Chaos a required 1 level dip for any bodyguard build.  I think this is ok, actually, but interesting.  Also, almost every Chaos Cultist who gets choices randomly will probably be "the ultimate bodyguard" by the time the end the class.

Lunatic Craft- some things cannot be properly be expressed in simple body actions, and demand changing a physical mean to come into being. The Chaos Cultist can create all sort of items  in the blink of an eye, provided apropriate raw materials are available (and even then a Chaos Cultist is pretty good at improvising with random stuff). A Chaos Cultist can use any single Craft Skill to build any nonmagic item (even alchemical ones), he needs only spend 1/10 the normal costs  and if he suceeds on the craft DC, the item is done in one minute.

Lunatic craft items always end up with an exotic or sometimes even disturbing look to them. Whenever used to perform a task (like a weapon striking a target or an armor taking a blow), a lunatic item has a 1% chance of simply breaking up in useless pieces, but they still perform their task one last time. In the case of expendable/one use items, there's a 10% chance they fail to do anything when used, and they're considered spent anyway.

Very cool ability.  I'd work out the die rolling so that instead of rolling after every use, the DM rolls in secret (d10 or d100) and that is roughly the # of times it works.

Chaos Magic: A Chaos Cultist  channels magic from both himself and the enviroment around him, giving him a virtually unlimited supply of magic energy, but that comes at the cost of stability, since it's easy to overextend himself.

The Chaos Cultist picks two cantrips and one first level spell at first level from either the cleric or wizard list, becoming able to use them at-Will as SLAs with a caster level equal to his Chaos Champion level, but he must suceed on a Concentration check with DC 10+3*Spell level each time he uses them. Failure means the magic goes wild and the Chaos Cultist's maximum HP is reduced by an amount equal to the failed spell level for 24 hours ( failed cantrips thus cause no penalty besides a wasted action).  A natural 1 is always a failed concentration check with this ability.  Save DCs for Chaos Magic are always 10+1/2 HD+Highest Mental Stat modifier.

Unlike normal SLAs, chaos magic demands the payment of expensive components and exp costs if the original spell demanded it, but the Chaos Cultist may use any kind of  item as long as it's worth the right amount, and he may have other willing creatures pay a share or even the  full amount of the exp price.

At 5 HD they may swap  their 1st level spell by an 2nd level spell and learn one more cantrip  and every  2 HD thereafter they can swap again for one spell of one level higher and gain one extra cantrip, up to 9th level spells.

Very cool and powerful ability.  Basically, cast a spell almost at will (especially good if you have an ability that allows re-rolls of 1's like the abilities of the chaos champion).

More thoughts to come later for the other classes.

Best,
David

[Raineh Daze]

Chaos Cultist

Overall, I really like these classes.

Some general thoughts
* Best to have some way to minimize die rolling ... especially if it would happen with every attack for example
* Good job giving so many cool flavorful abilities that are at the right power level

1 Additional Limb-the character gains one extra arm. In alternative, if the character has limbs with natural weapons, he may choose to gain one more of that kind, but such extra limb is incapable of fine manipulation, even  if the previous one was.

What does this do?  Do you get an additional attack if you do a natural attack?  What does it do if you have iterative?

That one's actually pretty straightforward--if you pick the extra natural attack, you don't get anything related to normal attacks (or casting, etc.) If you pick the 'normal' arm, all the benefits of having a normal arm, which means instead of dual-wielding... triple-wielding! Then quad.

It's how normal arm effects tend to work, anyway.

[DavidWL]

Chaos Warrior

3 Impossible Atlethics
You gain a bonus equal to your HD to either Climb, Jump,  or Swim checks. You can change the skill to wich you gain this bonus as a swift action.

You also gain a climb and swim speed each equal to half your base speed. If you already had such a movement form, it increases by 30 feet. You take no penalty for fighting or taking other complex actions while climbing or swimming.

At 6  HD your Climb and Swim speed are both equal to your base speed, and as an immediate action  you may make a Jump check and move the result amount in feets. Once used, you need to wait 1d10 rounds before using this ability again.

At 12 HD you  become immune to Fatigue and Exhaustion and never take falling damage from any source again. As a fullround action, you may leap trough the skies as long as you have a surface to  propulsionate yourself from. Roll a  Jump check, you move that amount in miles, and this jump only takes 1d10 rounds to complete.

At 18 HD 1/hour you can gain +1d12 your Str  score for 1 round as a free action.

Interesting abilities.  The jump also allows for massively fast overland travel.  1+1D10 rounds to move jump check (~30?) miles ~ 5 miles per round ~ 50 miles per minute or 3000 miles per hour.  And you probably can do it carrying your carrying capacity.  Escape combat as needed, and travel really fast.

4 Impossible Acrobatics

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You gain a bonus equal to your HD to either Balance, Escape Artist or Tumble checks. You can change the skill to wich you gain this bonus as a swift action.

You can also tumble as part of a charge to ignore obstacles in your path.

At 6  HD you ignore all dificult terrain and you can Balance yourself over surfaces that normally wouldn't hold you, like liquids, fragile branches, sword tips and even clouds and fogs, with the following DCs:
1-2 inches wide DC 25
Up to 1 inch wide DC 30
Hair-thin DC 35
Liquid  DC 40
Cloud/Fog DC 45

At 12 HD you  benefit from an extraordinary permanent Freedom of Movement effect. You may also make an Escape Artist check as part of movement to ignore the result in feets of solid obstacles, even magic ones. So for example an Escape artist check of 20 would allow you to go trough 20 feet of a Stone Wall, or even 20 feets of a Wall of Force. If the result isn't enough to completely get you trough the obstacle, you get immobilized inside it untill this ability recharges and then you can atempt to get out again. You may use this once every 1d10 rounds.

At 18 HD 1/hour you can gain 1d12 to your Dex score as a free action.

Also very interesting

5 Impossible Infiltration

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You gain a bonus equal to your HD to either Hide, Listen, Move Silently or Spot checks. You can change the skill to wich you gain this bonus as a swift action.

You can also now hide whitout actually having anything to hide yourself behind, and every single ability that would allow an oponent to detect you while hiding whitout need of listen and spot checks now demands that they suceed on a spot/listen check against your hide/move silently abilities. They do gain +3 bonus on their Spot and Listen checks for each extra ability detection. So an undead with bldindsight, mindsight and lifesight would get +9 bonus to their spot and listen checks.

At 6 HD you benefit from a permanent See Invisibility effect. As an immediate action, you may make a Hide check to gain the result in a miss chance in the next attack against you. So for example a Hide result of 37 would mean the next attack against you would have a 37% chance of missing.

At 12 HD you benefit from a permanent True Seeing effect. In addition your miss chance now lasts for 1 round instead of  a single attack.

At 18 HD 1/hour you may reposition yourself into any position whitin sight as a free action. Don't ask how you did it. You just did.

I really like hiding as a character ability.  Note that 6HD ability has no cap, but I think this is ok since it is an immediate action that only effects 1 attack.  But at 12HD it probably should have a cap.

Bersek Rage-Your rage inspires you into great feats of martial prowess. You gain one martial stance and six maneuvers from a single discipline, none of which can have a level higher than ½ your HD (you must meet any extra special requirements of those disciplines). Instead of readying them, acess a number between 1-6 to each maneuver and each round roll 2d6. Those are the two maneuvers you can use that round.  If you're in Bersek Rage, you roll 3d6 (gaining 3 maneuvers each round) and can use Intimidate instead of the key skill of that martial school and Str instead of that maneuver's main stat. You can change the maneuvers/stance/school whenever you level up.

This is quite nice ... especially since the base ability will eventually grow to +12 Str, Dex, Will.   Really pretty great ... the stance can be on all the time, and for out of combat use, maneuvers that take some luck to find are completely ok .

Chaos Magic-You learn six more spells up to the level you can cast from Chaos Magic. Choose one of the spells you know as your primary and assign a number between 1-6 to the others. Each round roll an 1d6. That's the non-cantripi spell you can use this turn, or you may choose to be able to use your primary. Whenever you change spells this way, any previous effects from your other non-cantrip spells from Chaos ends. This includes instantaneous effects like a Wall of stone, but not HP damage.

Cool ability for out of combat spells ... divination at will, scrying, teleportation, perhaps 1 long-term buff, etc.

Interestingly, this is a theme for these classes ... the randomness means that a number of the cool abilities work better if you pick out of combat abilities, so you can just wait for what you need ...

Best,
David

[DavidWL]

Chaos Champion

Legion-Glory be to chaos on all its forms! You are whitout number, and you shall one day drown the whole multiverse! As long as you're standing adjacent to at least one nongood nonlawful ally you can re-roll a natural 1 of your choice 1/round.  If you have  a fiendish Mark, you can only pick this option if said Mark is the Mark of Evil. If you gain a fiendish Mark later on, you must pick the Mark of Evil.

This is pretty fantastic.  Especially if you have casting with HP loss on a 1.  This is the only ability where you can control the re-rolls.

Renegade-Your cause is your own. You come first and everything else is secondary. You can pick abilities as if you were from any Aspiration. If gaining random gifts, you  can also also re-roll once each of those gifts. This includes gifts re-chosen at level up from other Chaos classes.

Pretty cool to me.  Slowly get better abilities over time.

How exactly does it work?  For example, can you reroll the individual abilities you want to change, do you have to re-roll everything gained at 1 level, or do you have to redo absolutely everything when leveling up?  I would vote for one of the first two options ... otherwise too! much change.

Glorious Gift of Chaos: As the Minor Gifts of Chaos of a Chaos Cultist, except you gain only one per Chaos Champion level, or one at random from each major section (Mutation, Wargear, Chaos Style). If you choose to pick, you may gain two Greater Gifts instead.

As with some earlier levels, if you do "random" for some of the categories, you'll end up with everything.  Completely ok - just not that random.

Legion Mutations are special in that  after you gain one, you cannot pick any other Legion Mutation, even if you're a Renegade. You can still pick the same Legion Mutation more than once.

Nice touch.

1 Alpha Status-You may not be perfect but damn you're better than everybody else. Pick two Excellences from the Paragon  you qualify for (you can't use either to qualify for the other). You  gain the benefits of either of them at any single time. You can try to swap them as a swift action, in which case roll a 1d6
1-You lose the benefits of both Excellences for 1 hour..
2-5-You swap the Excellences whitout problem.
6-You gain the benefits of both Excellences for 1 round, then go back to benefiting from the one you originally wanted.
Either way any decisions with each particular Excellence must be done when you first pick them and cannot be changed later, like maneuvers gained from Paragon Fighting Style. You also gain a pool of 1d12 potential points. Every extra time you pick this, increase your Potential Pool by 6.

Very cool ability.  Note that this means a Chaos 9 can have 3/3 Excellences, which is actually more than a XX 5/Paragon 4 can have.

For something that adds paragon levels, how does that work?  For example, how would Paragon Warrior work?

7 Purity of Agression-The Chaos Champion is blessed with the utter clairy of the Abyss's will. No enemy is beyond her hatred, and the feeling is mutual. The Chaos Champion gains a +1d8 bonus on all attack rolls, damage rolls and Will saves. Anyone attacking the Chaos Champion gains a +1d4 bonus on all attack rolls and damage rolls.

I'd do this one as a "roll once a day" or even "once a battle" rather than "once per attack".

14 Changing of the Ways-You can lose consciousness for 1d12 hours, filled with dreams and nightmares, and when you awaken all your gifts of chaos are gone and replaced with new ones, either picked or randomly gained (except for this which you must choose again). You can also change one single gift of chaos you have for another random of the same category as a swift or move action.

Very cool.  I assume that it is "one gift total" not "one gift per swift action spent" as otherwise you could pretty rapidly get whatever you wanted.

15 Ecastic Duplication-As a fullround action you can split yourself in two copies of yourself 1 level back. Regular equipment must be divided between you two, and you share the same pool of exp and limited use abilities. If either copy dies, it dissolves and melts into useless goo. If the other copy isn't slain whitin 24 hours, it absorbs the lost essence and becomes “you” again at full level. Both copies can also unite again as a fullround action.

Maybe my favorite ability.  Cool but while powerful, probably not overpowered.

I'd compare this to getting leadership.  1 character + 1 feat = "1 character" + "1 character - 2 levels" ~ 2 characters -1 level

This is better in that it makes you tougher, but worse in that you can't customize the cohort.  Later on I'll post a build inspired by this. 

(Dvati + Ecstatic Duplication + Mindstealer Drone = full party - 2 levels of current)

2 Night Master-You can perfectly see in darkness of any kind and you become immune to all indirect divination effects. When you full attack, you may take a basic move action that doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity instead of each basic attack at your leisure. Every extra time you pick this you gain an extra move action per turn.

This means someone with Night Master 1 pick = 1 extra move per turn & can replace attacks with basic move actions?  Night Master 3 picks = total of 4 move actions per turn & replace attacks with basic move actions?

12 Feel No Pain-Whenever the chaos champion suffer an attack, its ill effects are delayed by 1d4 rounds, including HP damage.

Pretty bunk.  There are a few powers that these guys can get that make them _very_ tough. 

Eye of the Abyss: At 3rd level whenever the Chaos Champion kills an opponent of at least its own CR-4, roll a 1d12. Multiple equal results stack.

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1-Damned by Chaos-Roll another 1d12. In anything other than an 1 you're Confused until the end of your next turn, bypassying any immunities you have. In a 1 you become  a writhing mass of flesh, tentacles and other... Things, for 12 rounds before returning to normal. For the duration you can only perform basic natural attacks and unarmed strikes, losing the benefits of any and all of your items, and you have to attack any visible enemies to the best of your ability.

12-Dark Apotheosis-Roll another 1d12. In anything other than an 1 you gain +1 to all 1d20 rolls for 12 rounds. If you roll another 12 you become bigger and meanier, gaining +6 to all ability scores, grow a size category, all your movement speeds are multiplied by 6 and your natural armor increases by 6 as well. Those effects lasts 12 rounds before you return to “normal”. Eye of the Gods then will not work again for 1d12 hours.

This ability has too much negative ... losing 1 turn every 12 rounds of combat (I would assume most combats have significant creatures dying every round) is Much worse than being moderately stronger 1 turn in 12. 

The problem is that dnd punishes variability ... for example, if you can blast through 1 challenge every 12 regardless of CR, and you die 1 challenge in ever 12 regardless of CR, that means you're dead by 3rd level ...

Also, the timing is weird ... having the capstone be a negative rather than a positive. 

Best,
David

[DavidWL]

New Build:
http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=16829.msg296277#msg296277

Sketch:
Mindstealer Drone + Ecastic Duplication + Dvati + Boss -->
4 characters, level = HD -2, of any kind

Also, a request to make the other Chaos'?  Cool material!

Best,
David

[oslecamo]

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Chaos Cultist

Overall, I really like these classes.

Some general thoughts
* Best to have some way to minimize die rolling ... especially if it would happen with every attack for example
* Good job giving so many cool flavorful abilities that are at the right power level

Thanks!

1 Additional Limb-the character gains one extra arm. In alternative, if the character has limbs with natural weapons, he may choose to gain one more of that kind, but such extra limb is incapable of fine manipulation, even  if the previous one was.

What does this do?  Do you get an additional attack if you do a natural attack?  What does it do if you have iterative?

As RD pointed out, works like extra limbs for other creatures. If you pick the natural attack, yes you can use it as a natural weapon.

9 Dimensional Instability-The servant of chaos connection to the physical realm begins to slip, his consciosuness segueing between real space and the Abyss. At times he appears to fade away entirely as he walks the otherworld of daemons and fell gods. Once per hour as an immediate action the servant of chaos may become Incorporeal. At the end of each of his turns roll a 1d12. If a 1 is rolled he becomes corporeal again. He cannot willingly dismiss this effect, and if he becomes material again while inside a solid object he is shunted to the nearest open space taking 1d6 damage for every 10 feet traveled.
Hatred-So raw is the servant of chaos anger that he can strike his foes from beyond the veil of reality. He can have his weapons count as having the ghost touch property.
Conspiracy -The servant of chaos spells and SLAs can  affect creatures on the material while incorporeal whitout problem.

This is probably too much ... especially since they can get this at 2nd level. 

Technically 3rd level since you would need 1 level of chaos cultist and 2 of fiendish for a mark. Added clause to increase chance of becoming corporeal again when you use those.

27 Strange Walk-The chaos cultist moves in strange manners, whetever from a distorted mind or actual unproportional limbs, but somehow those end up making him go faster! At the start of each turn roll 1d4. The chaos cultist's movement speeds increase by that amount times 5 feet.

A good example of an ability that adds a lot of die rolling ... If I were DMing, I'd say roll once at the beginning of each day ...

Hmm, changed to per hour. Not so fast that you need to constantly check it, but fast enough that it'll change with a bit of wait.

Metal Fist:
This oversized masterwork  gauntlet deals 1d10+1,5 Str damage for a medium creature and counts as two-handed for every benefical purposes like power attack, even if it's a single-hand weapon, but the wielder always acts at the end of the iniative count. It also deals an extra 1d8 damage for every 4 HD of the Chaos Cultist.

At 6 HD it ignores all cover,  hardness and DR.

At 12 HD it ignores half the Natural Armor, Armor and Shield Bonus from targets.

At 18 HD it gains a critical modifier of 18-20 x3.

Very nice.  And good balance of perks with last in initiative count.  How does this work mechanically?  I say "I plan to use my metal fist, and thus act last".  Then everyone else acts (maybe, for example, they all move out of my melee range), then I say, I change my mind and shoot my bow, but now last on the initiative count?

So I have to decide to use it, then hope it is still relevant?  It is fine if that is how it works, just want to be clear.

You don't need to decide to use it, just wielding it is enough to drop you to the end of the initiative count. So you can pull up a bow if you want when your turn finally arrives.

Martyrdoom
As an immediate action you can receive an attack that was aimed at an adjacent ally. You only take half damage, and if it allowed a save, you gain a +5 bonus on it.

At 6 HD you may even protect an adjacent ally against area effects, granting them the Evasion and Mettle abilities in return for you taking a -5 penalty on the save as an immediate action.

At 12 HD one men alone can stand against fate itself. As an immediate action, for 1 round all harmfull effects that would affect any adjacent creature are directed to your person. You only take half damage and gain a +5 bonus on any saves needed to make as a result of this ability.

At 18 HD you may perform the ultimate sacrifice. By puting yourself directly in harm's way, you lose your life but allow one an ally whitin view to take a fullround worth of actions with the oportunity created.

Cool ability.  It is, I think, the most powerful body guard ability I've seen, making Chaos a required 1 level dip for any bodyguard build.  I think this is ok, actually, but interesting.  Also, almost every Chaos Cultist who gets choices randomly will probably be "the ultimate bodyguard" by the time the end the class.

D&D is very heavily leaning towards offensive abilities indeed.

Lunatic Craft- some things cannot be properly be expressed in simple body actions, and demand changing a physical mean to come into being. The Chaos Cultist can create all sort of items  in the blink of an eye, provided apropriate raw materials are available (and even then a Chaos Cultist is pretty good at improvising with random stuff). A Chaos Cultist can use any single Craft Skill to build any nonmagic item (even alchemical ones), he needs only spend 1/10 the normal costs  and if he suceeds on the craft DC, the item is done in one minute.

Lunatic craft items always end up with an exotic or sometimes even disturbing look to them. Whenever used to perform a task (like a weapon striking a target or an armor taking a blow), a lunatic item has a 1% chance of simply breaking up in useless pieces, but they still perform their task one last time. In the case of expendable/one use items, there's a 10% chance they fail to do anything when used, and they're considered spent anyway.

Very cool ability.  I'd work out the die rolling so that instead of rolling after every use, the DM rolls in secret (d10 or d100) and that is roughly the # of times it works.

Hmmm, you think most people will feel fine with that? I could see some players being pretty pissed when the DM tells them "ok, your secret number of uses ran out because of something I rolled the last month in secret". If the die is rolled in front of everybody, players won't feel that bad.

Chaos Magic: A Chaos Cultist  channels magic from both himself and the enviroment around him, giving him a virtually unlimited supply of magic energy, but that comes at the cost of stability, since it's easy to overextend himself.

The Chaos Cultist picks two cantrips and one first level spell at first level from either the cleric or wizard list, becoming able to use them at-Will as SLAs with a caster level equal to his Chaos Champion level, but he must suceed on a Concentration check with DC 10+3*Spell level each time he uses them. Failure means the magic goes wild and the Chaos Cultist's maximum HP is reduced by an amount equal to the failed spell level for 24 hours ( failed cantrips thus cause no penalty besides a wasted action).  A natural 1 is always a failed concentration check with this ability.  Save DCs for Chaos Magic are always 10+1/2 HD+Highest Mental Stat modifier.

Unlike normal SLAs, chaos magic demands the payment of expensive components and exp costs if the original spell demanded it, but the Chaos Cultist may use any kind of  item as long as it's worth the right amount, and he may have other willing creatures pay a share or even the  full amount of the exp price.

At 5 HD they may swap  their 1st level spell by an 2nd level spell and learn one more cantrip  and every  2 HD thereafter they can swap again for one spell of one level higher and gain one extra cantrip, up to 9th level spells.

Very cool and powerful ability.  Basically, cast a spell almost at will (especially good if you have an ability that allows re-rolls of 1's like the abilities of the chaos champion).

More thoughts to come later for the other classes.

Best,
David

For the glory of KAOS!

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Chaos Warrior

5 Impossible Infiltration

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You gain a bonus equal to your HD to either Hide, Listen, Move Silently or Spot checks. You can change the skill to wich you gain this bonus as a swift action.

You can also now hide whitout actually having anything to hide yourself behind, and every single ability that would allow an oponent to detect you while hiding whitout need of listen and spot checks now demands that they suceed on a spot/listen check against your hide/move silently abilities. They do gain +3 bonus on their Spot and Listen checks for each extra ability detection. So an undead with bldindsight, mindsight and lifesight would get +9 bonus to their spot and listen checks.

At 6 HD you benefit from a permanent See Invisibility effect. As an immediate action, you may make a Hide check to gain the result in a miss chance in the next attack against you. So for example a Hide result of 37 would mean the next attack against you would have a 37% chance of missing.

At 12 HD you benefit from a permanent True Seeing effect. In addition your miss chance now lasts for 1 round instead of  a single attack.

At 18 HD 1/hour you may reposition yourself into any position whitin sight as a free action. Don't ask how you did it. You just did.

I really like hiding as a character ability.  Note that 6HD ability has no cap, but I think this is ok since it is an immediate action that only effects 1 attack.  But at 12HD it probably should have a cap.

Added cap at 6 HD, which is then removed at 18 HD.

Chaos Magic-You learn six more spells up to the level you can cast from Chaos Magic. Choose one of the spells you know as your primary and assign a number between 1-6 to the others. Each round roll an 1d6. That's the non-cantripi spell you can use this turn, or you may choose to be able to use your primary. Whenever you change spells this way, any previous effects from your other non-cantrip spells from Chaos ends. This includes instantaneous effects like a Wall of stone, but not HP damage.

Cool ability for out of combat spells ... divination at will, scrying, teleportation, perhaps 1 long-term buff, etc.

Interestingly, this is a theme for these classes ... the randomness means that a number of the cool abilities work better if you pick out of combat abilities, so you can just wait for what you need ...

Best,
David

Just as planned.

I mean, I didn't want to make those classes just KILL PRAY BURN, so I strived to put in utility.

(click to show/hide)

Renegade-Your cause is your own. You come first and everything else is secondary. You can pick abilities as if you were from any Aspiration. If gaining random gifts, you  can also also re-roll once each of those gifts. This includes gifts re-chosen at level up from other Chaos classes.

Pretty cool to me.  Slowly get better abilities over time.

How exactly does it work?  For example, can you reroll the individual abilities you want to change, do you have to re-roll everything gained at 1 level, or do you have to redo absolutely everything when leveling up?  I would vote for one of the first two options ... otherwise too! much change.
[/quote]
My idea was that if the chaos player chooses to change, he changes everything. Can't cherry pick to "gamble" some levels and "keep" the others. Renegade allows you to pick and re-roll any new options you don't like, but everything's getting re-rolled. Yeah the gamble option was more supposed to be super change. It does give you a lot more gifts, and as you pointed out, if one is allowed to just gamble away the options they don't want, it'll end up as cherry picking almost.

Anyway leveling up isn't that uncommon of an event. If anything, I would say it's faster than going down the list and picking. Unless you already planned the whole thing ahead. But if you want that there's the cherry-pick-but-get-less-option path.

Glorious Gift of Chaos: As the Minor Gifts of Chaos of a Chaos Cultist, except you gain only one per Chaos Champion level, or one at random from each major section (Mutation, Wargear, Chaos Style). If you choose to pick, you may gain two Greater Gifts instead.

As with some earlier levels, if you do "random" for some of the categories, you'll end up with everything.  Completely ok - just not that random.

I kinda run dry on ideas when reaching Chaos Style.

1 Alpha Status-You may not be perfect but damn you're better than everybody else. Pick two Excellences from the Paragon  you qualify for (you can't use either to qualify for the other). You  gain the benefits of either of them at any single time. You can try to swap them as a swift action, in which case roll a 1d6
1-You lose the benefits of both Excellences for 1 hour..
2-5-You swap the Excellences whitout problem.
6-You gain the benefits of both Excellences for 1 round, then go back to benefiting from the one you originally wanted.
Either way any decisions with each particular Excellence must be done when you first pick them and cannot be changed later, like maneuvers gained from Paragon Fighting Style. You also gain a pool of 1d12 potential points. Every extra time you pick this, increase your Potential Pool by 6.

Very cool ability.  Note that this means a Chaos 9 can have 3/3 Excellences, which is actually more than a XX 5/Paragon 4 can have.

For something that adds paragon levels, how does that work?  For example, how would Paragon Warrior work?

Hmm, I'll rather not think about that, just added clause that you can't pick the same Excellence more than once.

7 Purity of Agression-The Chaos Champion is blessed with the utter clairy of the Abyss's will. No enemy is beyond her hatred, and the feeling is mutual. The Chaos Champion gains a +1d8 bonus on all attack rolls, damage rolls and Will saves. Anyone attacking the Chaos Champion gains a +1d4 bonus on all attack rolls and damage rolls.

I'd do this one as a "roll once a day" or even "once a battle" rather than "once per attack".

Good point, changed to start of encounter rolling only.

14 Changing of the Ways-You can lose consciousness for 1d12 hours, filled with dreams and nightmares, and when you awaken all your gifts of chaos are gone and replaced with new ones, either picked or randomly gained (except for this which you must choose again). You can also change one single gift of chaos you have for another random of the same category as a swift or move action.

Very cool.  I assume that it is "one gift total" not "one gift per swift action spent" as otherwise you could pretty rapidly get whatever you wanted.

Yes you're right, hopefully clarified now.

2 Night Master-You can perfectly see in darkness of any kind and you become immune to all indirect divination effects. When you full attack, you may take a basic move action that doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity instead of each basic attack at your leisure. Every extra time you pick this you gain an extra move action per turn.

This means someone with Night Master 1 pick = 1 extra move per turn & can replace attacks with basic move actions?  Night Master 3 picks = total of 4 move actions per turn & replace attacks with basic move actions?

Yes.

12 Feel No Pain-Whenever the chaos champion suffer an attack, its ill effects are delayed by 1d4 rounds, including HP damage.

Pretty bunk.  There are a few powers that these guys can get that make them _very_ tough. 

Excellent. 

Eye of the Abyss: At 3rd level whenever the Chaos Champion kills an opponent of at least its own CR-4, roll a 1d12. Multiple equal results stack.

(click to show/hide)

1-Damned by Chaos-Roll another 1d12. In anything other than an 1 you're Confused until the end of your next turn, bypassying any immunities you have. In a 1 you become  a writhing mass of flesh, tentacles and other... Things, for 12 rounds before returning to normal. For the duration you can only perform basic natural attacks and unarmed strikes, losing the benefits of any and all of your items, and you have to attack any visible enemies to the best of your ability.

12-Dark Apotheosis-Roll another 1d12. In anything other than an 1 you gain +1 to all 1d20 rolls for 12 rounds. If you roll another 12 you become bigger and meanier, gaining +6 to all ability scores, grow a size category, all your movement speeds are multiplied by 6 and your natural armor increases by 6 as well. Those effects lasts 12 rounds before you return to “normal”. Eye of the Gods then will not work again for 1d12 hours.

This ability has too much negative ... losing 1 turn every 12 rounds of combat (I would assume most combats have significant creatures dying every round) is Much worse than being moderately stronger 1 turn in 12. 

The problem is that dnd punishes variability ... for example, if you can blast through 1 challenge every 12 regardless of CR, and you die 1 challenge in ever 12 regardless of CR, that means you're dead by 3rd level ...

Also, the timing is weird ... having the capstone be a negative rather than a positive. 

Best,
David

I think you're overstimating the penalty. Remember that if someone hurt you, confusion defaults to "attack them back", which is probably what you planned to do anyway. And even then it's just one round and you don't take any penalties to defenses, is pretty far from being insta-killed.

New Build:
http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=16829.msg296277#msg296277

Sketch:
Mindstealer Drone + Ecastic Duplication + Dvati + Boss -->
4 characters, level = HD -2, of any kind

Also, a request to make the other Chaos'?  Cool material!

Best,
David

Hmmm, I do have the chaos chosen in the backburner. I'll see about picking that one up again.

[DavidWL]

Chaos Cultist

Lunatic Craft- some things cannot be properly be expressed in simple body actions, and demand changing a physical mean to come into being. The Chaos Cultist can create all sort of items  in the blink of an eye, provided apropriate raw materials are available (and even then a Chaos Cultist is pretty good at improvising with random stuff). A Chaos Cultist can use any single Craft Skill to build any nonmagic item (even alchemical ones), he needs only spend 1/10 the normal costs  and if he suceeds on the craft DC, the item is done in one minute.

Lunatic craft items always end up with an exotic or sometimes even disturbing look to them. Whenever used to perform a task (like a weapon striking a target or an armor taking a blow), a lunatic item has a 1% chance of simply breaking up in useless pieces, but they still perform their task one last time. In the case of expendable/one use items, there's a 10% chance they fail to do anything when used, and they're considered spent anyway.

Very cool ability.  I'd work out the die rolling so that instead of rolling after every use, the DM rolls in secret (d10 or d100) and that is roughly the # of times it works.

Hmmm, you think most people will feel fine with that? I could see some players being pretty pissed when the DM tells them "ok, your secret number of uses ran out because of something I rolled the last month in secret". If the die is rolled in front of everybody, players won't feel that bad.

Perhaps everyone at the table can see it (except the player)?  Then a counter is flipped every time the event happens until the counter reaches the magical #?

Chaos Warrior
My idea was that if the chaos player chooses to change, he changes everything. Can't cherry pick to "gamble" some levels and "keep" the others. Renegade allows you to pick and re-roll any new options you don't like, but everything's getting re-rolled. Yeah the gamble option was more supposed to be super change. It does give you a lot more gifts, and as you pointed out, if one is allowed to just gamble away the options they don't want, it'll end up as cherry picking almost.

Anyway leveling up isn't that uncommon of an event. If anything, I would say it's faster than going down the list and picking. Unless you already planned the whole thing ahead. But if you want that there's the cherry-pick-but-get-less-option path.

Can you add a bit of clarification in the text describing this?  I don't think I got that from reading the text - makes a lot of sense now.

Eye of the Abyss: At 3rd level whenever the Chaos Champion kills an opponent of at least its own CR-4, roll a 1d12. Multiple equal results stack.

(click to show/hide)

This ability has too much negative ... losing 1 turn every 12 rounds of combat (I would assume most combats have significant creatures dying every round) is Much worse than being moderately stronger 1 turn in 12. 

The problem is that dnd punishes variability ... for example, if you can blast through 1 challenge every 12 regardless of CR, and you die 1 challenge in ever 12 regardless of CR, that means you're dead by 3rd level ...

Also, the timing is weird ... having the capstone be a negative rather than a positive. 

I think you're overstimating the penalty. Remember that if someone hurt you, confusion defaults to "attack them back", which is probably what you planned to do anyway. And even then it's just one round and you don't take any penalties to defenses, is pretty far from being insta-killed.

You're right - I was overestimating.

Hmmm, I do have the chaos chosen in the backburner. I'll see about picking that one up again.

 

[oslecamo]

Chaos Cultist

Lunatic Craft- some things cannot be properly be expressed in simple body actions, and demand changing a physical mean to come into being. The Chaos Cultist can create all sort of items  in the blink of an eye, provided apropriate raw materials are available (and even then a Chaos Cultist is pretty good at improvising with random stuff). A Chaos Cultist can use any single Craft Skill to build any nonmagic item (even alchemical ones), he needs only spend 1/10 the normal costs  and if he suceeds on the craft DC, the item is done in one minute.

Lunatic craft items always end up with an exotic or sometimes even disturbing look to them. Whenever used to perform a task (like a weapon striking a target or an armor taking a blow), a lunatic item has a 1% chance of simply breaking up in useless pieces, but they still perform their task one last time. In the case of expendable/one use items, there's a 10% chance they fail to do anything when used, and they're considered spent anyway.

Very cool ability.  I'd work out the die rolling so that instead of rolling after every use, the DM rolls in secret (d10 or d100) and that is roughly the # of times it works.

Hmmm, you think most people will feel fine with that? I could see some players being pretty pissed when the DM tells them "ok, your secret number of uses ran out because of something I rolled the last month in secret". If the die is rolled in front of everybody, players won't feel that bad.

Perhaps everyone at the table can see it (except the player)?  Then a counter is flipped every time the event happens until the counter reaches the magical #?

But that still kinda runs into trust issues. And even if the other players don't tell directly, it would be hard to keep their action unbiased, in particular when the chaos character can share lunatic items with the rest of the party.

Chaos Warrior
My idea was that if the chaos player chooses to change, he changes everything. Can't cherry pick to "gamble" some levels and "keep" the others. Renegade allows you to pick and re-roll any new options you don't like, but everything's getting re-rolled. Yeah the gamble option was more supposed to be super change. It does give you a lot more gifts, and as you pointed out, if one is allowed to just gamble away the options they don't want, it'll end up as cherry picking almost.

Anyway leveling up isn't that uncommon of an event. If anything, I would say it's faster than going down the list and picking. Unless you already planned the whole thing ahead. But if you want that there's the cherry-pick-but-get-less-option path.

Can you add a bit of clarification in the text describing this?  I don't think I got that from reading the text - makes a lot of sense now.

Done, should be clearer now.

Hmmm, I do have the chaos chosen in the backburner. I'll see about picking that one up again.

 

Chaos Chosen is ready for review!

[Krika]

Off the top, Chaos Flame is 21, but what looks like it's the second half of the description is written under 22.

[DavidWL]

Chaos Chosen is ready for review!

Awesome!

 

[DavidWL]

1 Abyss Void-The Chaos Chosen constantly radiates out to 60 feet a Deeper Darkness effect combined with Unhallow, Invisibility Sphere, Silence, Desecrate, plus SR equal to 11+HD. If he attacks, the Invisibility Sphere returns next turn. He may supress or resume any or all of those abilities as a free action, but no more than once per turn. Creatures trying to use SLAs or manifesting psionic powers while inside the Abyss Void, or trying to target its area or somebody inside it with such effects, have a 20% chance of the effect automatically failing and they taking 1d6 damage per 5 HD of the chaos Chosen, bypassing all defenses. Each extra time you take this increase the radius by 10, the SR by 2, the fail chance by 10% and the damage by 2d6.

Cool.  Note the synergy with the ability that lets you count as undead when desired. I wonder if this is too powerful?   
* Invsibility Sphere + Silence
* Unhallow --> Freedom of Movement (for example)
* Descrate
* SR
* Miss chance vs. supernatural ...

3 Death of Magic-The Chaos Chosen radiates an Anti-magic field with a range of up to 5 feet per 2 HD, the radius changeable as a free action 1/round. Creatures that harm the Chaos Chosen have all their spellcasting/manifesting/SLAs/psionics/spell buffs/magic items/psionic items supressed for 1 round. In addition anybody trying to Scry anything or anwyhere whitin 500 feet of the Chaos Chosen automatically fails. In case of doubt, chaos classes abilities aren't affected by this ability unless they explicitly replicate a spell.  Each extra time you pick this you can increase the max radius by 10 feet and the penalty for creatures who harm the chaos chosen lasts another round.

No save vs. magic suppression?

If the Chaos Chosen wants to use a Sp like ability, can he?

9 Possessed-Build an evil outsider character using monster classes up to your level-2. As a swift action roll a 1d12. If you roll 1-8, you switch builds. If you roll a 9-11, you gestalt both for 1 minute. If you roll a 12, you change into your evil outsider form and cannot change back for 1 hour. When you level up you may add one level to your other form and/or switch its build. Each extra time you pick this option, add another level to your alternate form.

Very cool.  I'm a sucker for abilities like this.  Well done & balanced.

12 Flesh Hound-You gain the Scent ability. If you already had it, double its range. You can pinpoint the exact location of creatures with flesh that have taken damage (including corporeal undead) inside your Scent range, including ignoring any and all of their miss chances. Once you've damaged a creature with flesh in melee, you can pinpoint the direction they've went, including if they try to escape to other planes you can follow their trail and as a standard action tear a rend in reality to appear adjacent to them in the other plane. Melee touch attacks from creatures of flesh against you automatically fail, and spells/SLAs/psionics have a 50% chance of automatically failing when using you as a target or affecting an area in which you're in.

Standard action follow is also utility ... use it to go back home, and then back to your party.  (Which I approve of!).

Strong ability but seems ok ...

15 Soporific Musk- You gain a permanent 50% miss chance. Creatures adjacent to you also must re-roll any natural 20s they make. Creatures adjacent to you that were indiferent or more friendly become one step friendlier to you.

This model of giving a few abilities is nice.  What does the miss chance apply to?  Also, do these different miss chances stack in any way?  Roll one and then the next?

19 Vermintide- You're no longer a container of the infestation, you are the infestation. You become immune to criticals and can pass through any openings small enough to fit a rat. If you would be killed, from your body burst forth 2d12 bats/rats (your choice) that try to escape and hide to the best of their ability in different directions. If any of them survives for 24 hours, they reform into you. You can also intentionally split yourself this way as an immediate action, and reform yourself on your previous condition on any on the surviving critters position as another immediate action.

Flavorfull!

20 Changeling-You can use Disguise Self at Will, Alter Self 1/minute and Polymorph on yourself once per hour, either as a move or swift action, with CL=1d12. Once per day as a fullround action, you can become a perfect copy of another creature you can detect, replacing all your stats, including equipment, by theirs, but then you must use all your actions attacking your target, or approaching as much as possible if not possible. If either of you are slain or you lose control of your actions, you return to your original self. Any piece of equipment copy you drop or lose turns into useless dust.

A copy of any creature, regardless of the creatures CR or level?  Doesn't this mean you have a 50% to beat any target, regardless of CR?

23 Dimensional Disk- Three spacial dimensions can get too complicated. As a swift action you can become two-dimensional or back. While on this form every other creature you cannot interact with the rest of the world besides causing harm, but you can fly at a speed of 90 feet with perfect maneuverability and run at 9 times your base speed increase of just 4. You can also slip through anything that would let light through, such as a glass window or a Wall of Force. While in this shape once per minute you can replicate Greater Teleport and once per hour Plane Shift with CL=2d12. You can take others with you if your CL ends high enough, this is an exception to the previous no-harm clause.

Very cool, but can you reword?  "every other creature you cannot interact with the rest of the world ..."?  "run at 9 times your base speed increase of just 4"?


More later.

Thanks!

[oslecamo]

Off the top, Chaos Flame is 21, but what looks like it's the second half of the description is written under 22.

Fixed, thanks!

1 Abyss Void-The Chaos Chosen constantly radiates out to 60 feet a Deeper Darkness effect combined with Unhallow, Invisibility Sphere, Silence, Desecrate, plus SR equal to 11+HD. If he attacks, the Invisibility Sphere returns next turn. He may supress or resume any or all of those abilities as a free action, but no more than once per turn. Creatures trying to use SLAs or manifesting psionic powers while inside the Abyss Void, or trying to target its area or somebody inside it with such effects, have a 20% chance of the effect automatically failing and they taking 1d6 damage per 5 HD of the chaos Chosen, bypassing all defenses. Each extra time you take this increase the radius by 10, the SR by 2, the fail chance by 10% and the damage by 2d6.

Cool.  Note the synergy with the ability that lets you count as undead when desired. I wonder if this is too powerful?   
* Invsibility Sphere + Silence
* Unhallow --> Freedom of Movement (for example)
* Descrate
* SR
* Miss chance vs. supernatural ...

The miss chance is not against Su effect, it's against Sp effects. Since silence only really bothers vancian casters. But it may still be a bit too much, removed the Unhallow effect.

3 Death of Magic-The Chaos Chosen radiates an Anti-magic field with a range of up to 5 feet per 2 HD, the radius changeable as a free action 1/round. Creatures that harm the Chaos Chosen have all their spellcasting/manifesting/SLAs/psionics/spell buffs/magic items/psionic items supressed for 1 round. In addition anybody trying to Scry anything or anwyhere whitin 500 feet of the Chaos Chosen automatically fails. In case of doubt, chaos classes abilities aren't affected by this ability unless they explicitly replicate a spell.  Each extra time you pick this you can increase the max radius by 10 feet and the penalty for creatures who harm the chaos chosen lasts another round.

No save vs. magic suppression?

If the Chaos Chosen wants to use a Sp like ability, can he?

Added save, added clause that reducing the radius to zero feet disables the effect until increased again.

9 Possessed-Build an evil outsider character using monster classes up to your level-2. As a swift action roll a 1d12. If you roll 1-8, you switch builds. If you roll a 9-11, you gestalt both for 1 minute. If you roll a 12, you change into your evil outsider form and cannot change back for 1 hour. When you level up you may add one level to your other form and/or switch its build. Each extra time you pick this option, add another level to your alternate form.

Very cool.  I'm a sucker for abilities like this.  Well done & balanced.

Thanks!

15 Soporific Musk- You gain a permanent 50% miss chance. Creatures adjacent to you also must re-roll any natural 20s they make. Creatures adjacent to you that were indiferent or more friendly become one step friendlier to you.

This model of giving a few abilities is nice.  What does the miss chance apply to?  Also, do these different miss chances stack in any way?  Roll one and then the next?

Supposed to work against non-area attacks, added clause to prevent stacking.

19 Vermintide- You're no longer a container of the infestation, you are the infestation. You become immune to criticals and can pass through any openings small enough to fit a rat. If you would be killed, from your body burst forth 2d12 bats/rats (your choice) that try to escape and hide to the best of their ability in different directions. If any of them survives for 24 hours, they reform into you. You can also intentionally split yourself this way as an immediate action, and reform yourself on your previous condition on any on the surviving critters position as another immediate action.

Flavorfull!

Good!

20 Changeling-You can use Disguise Self at Will, Alter Self 1/minute and Polymorph on yourself once per hour, either as a move or swift action, with CL=1d12. Once per day as a fullround action, you can become a perfect copy of another creature you can detect, replacing all your stats, including equipment, by theirs, but then you must use all your actions attacking your target, or approaching as much as possible if not possible. If either of you are slain or you lose control of your actions, you return to your original self. Any piece of equipment copy you drop or lose turns into useless dust.

A copy of any creature, regardless of the creatures CR or level?  Doesn't this mean you have a 50% to beat any target, regardless of CR?

Theoretically yes, but you had to spend a fullround action to use it, so the original gets to attack first, which is a significant (dis)advantage. Kinda like Ditto from pokemon.

23 Dimensional Disk- Three spacial dimensions can get too complicated. As a swift action you can become two-dimensional or back. While on this form every other creature you cannot interact with the rest of the world besides causing harm, but you can fly at a speed of 90 feet with perfect maneuverability and run at 9 times your base speed increase of just 4. You can also slip through anything that would let light through, such as a glass window or a Wall of Force. While in this shape once per minute you can replicate Greater Teleport and once per hour Plane Shift with CL=2d12. You can take others with you if your CL ends high enough, this is an exception to the previous no-harm clause.

Very cool, but can you reword?  "every other creature you cannot interact with the rest of the world ..."?  "run at 9 times your base speed increase of just 4"?

Should be more clear now.

[DavidWL]

2 Corrosive Breath-You gain a breath weapon affecting a cone with 50 feet that deals 1d6 damage per HD, reflex save with DC 10+1/2 HD+highest stat mod for half. Creatures failing their reflex saves take a -4 penalty to AC, Fort and Ref saves for 1 minute, or half that penalty for 1 round if they make the save. Once used you must wait 1d4 turns to be able to use it again. Each extra time you take this you can increase the range by 10 feet, the damage by 1d6, and the penalty by another -1.

Perhaps this should be slightly stronger?  Compared to other abilities it is a bit weak.  Being untyped is a bit of a powerup, but perhaps also grant 1 breath weapon feat?

9 Possessed-Build an evil outsider character using monster classes up to your level-2. As a swift action roll a 1d12. If you roll 1-8, you switch builds. If you roll a 9-11, you gestalt both for 1 minute. If you roll a 12, you change into your evil outsider form and cannot change back for 1 hour. When you level up you may add one level to your other form and/or switch its build. Each extra time you pick this option, add another level to your alternate form.

I've been thinking about this one (because I like it!).  2 suggestions:
1.  It is possible to get more than 3 picks (example:  this prestige class capstone, or later classes).  I'd recommend making it explicit that you can't take this more than 3 times. 
2.  It is strictly better to play a Chaos Champion (Balor) than a Balor.  So the outsider side of gestalt should be weaker even after taking 3 picks.  I'm thinking that perhaps there is a requirement that some things stay the same for both builds?  Maybe some # of the feats?  All of the skills?  Etc.  This will help ensure that this is still balanced vs. Balor 20 as a build (for example), rather than being strictly better.

19 Vermintide- You're no longer a container of the infestation, you are the infestation. You become immune to criticals and can pass through any openings small enough to fit a rat. If you would be killed, from your body burst forth 2d12 bats/rats (your choice) that try to escape and hide to the best of their ability in different directions. If any of them survives for 24 hours, they reform into you. You can also intentionally split yourself this way as an immediate action, and reform yourself on your previous condition on any on the surviving critters position as another immediate action.

Thinking about this one more as well.  Bats aren't bad, because they can fly, but they're still pretty weak ... I wonder if 1 fireball would kill all of them?  My instinct is to give them some ability to evade attacks ... maybe they can take a full round action immediately after death?

22 Dimensional Disk- Three spacial dimensions can get too complicated. As a swift action you can become two-dimensional or back. While on this form your only abilities that still work on other creatures and objects are those abilities that cause harm. For example, you cannot pick up anything nor heal, but you can attack, sunder, apply debuffs, etc. Your senses show a twisted two-dimensional world, but you can still what is what and still benefit from stuff like See Invisibility and True Seeing, as well as any detect effects you use. You can fly at a speed of 90 feet with perfect maneuverability and if you take the run action, you can move up to 999 feet (round up to 1000 feet). You can also slip through anything that would let light through, such as a glass window or a Wall of Force. While in this shape once per minute you can replicate Greater Teleport and once per hour Plane Shift with CL=2d12. You can take others with you if your CL ends high enough, this is an exception to the previous no-harm clause.

Thanks for clarification!

More later

Thanks!

[DavidWL]

2 Conversion Beam Pistol-Deals 4d6 Force damage, ignoring DR, 50 feet range, hits as a ranged touch attack. For each extra range increment your opponent is further away, it deals an extra 2d6 damage, to a maximum of 20d6 extra damage for ten range increments. Never seems to run out of energy. Victims must make one (and only one regardless of how many times they were hit) Reflex save at the start of their turn or suffer an extra effect based on the number of range increments they were away (1-2 nothing, 3-4 , 5- 6 Dazed, 7-8 dead, 9-10 destroyed).

I like it, but it sure makes for a deadly assassin ... you can make iterative melee attacks with wargear, right?  So as an assassin, you do 20D6, Force, ignoring DR, as a touch attack ... with iterative attacks ...  Perhaps make it loud or otherwise giving away one's location?

For that matter, the obvious thing is to get a way to have extra movement (travel domain), move to the right distance, then unload ... I really like the idea, but think it is probably too strong.

5 Conversion Beam Rifle-Deals 4d6 Force damage (half cold/half acid, ignoring DR) damage, 100 feet range, hits as a ranged touch attack. For each extra range increment your opponent is further away, it deals an extra 2d6 damage, to a maximum of 20d6 extra damage for ten range increments.  Never seems to run out of energy. Victims must make one (and only one regardless of how many times they were hit) Reflex save at the start of their turn or suffer an extra effect based on the number of range increments they were away (1-2 nothing, 3-4 , 5- 6 Dazed, 7-8 dead, 9-10 destroyed).

Same as above

13 Conversion Beam Cannon- Range 150 feet, deals 4d6 Force damage, ignoring DR, in a 15 feet radius from the point of impact, Reflex save for half damage. If you suceeded on a ranged touch attack against a creature, they aren't allowed the Reflex save.  For each extra range increment your opponent is further away, it deals an extra 2d6 damage, to a maximum of 20d6 extra damage for ten range increments. Never seems to run out of energy. Victims must make one (and only one regardless of how many times they were hit) Reflex save at the start of their turn or suffer an extra effect based on the number of range increments they were away (1-2 nothing, 3-4 , 5- 6 Dazed, 7-8 dead, 9-10 destroyed).

Same as above

20 Terminator Armor-Grants a +14 AC bonus, +2 Max Dex, -12 skill penalty, 80% ASF, DR 20/adamantine, and resistance 20 against Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire, Negative energy and Sonic damage. Additionally, it provides 75% Fortification and a +8 enanchment bonus to Strength and a +6 resistance bonus to Fortitude saves. However it's so bulky that you cannot make Aoos. Heavy armor. In addition pick one of the following upgrades.

Maybe too strong for 1 pick ... it's fine to scale up to this, but DR20 & Resistance to all 20 & +14 to AC and +8 to Str (enhancement, but still saves gold and gives extra +2), +6 fort all for 1 pick ... 

Maybe start lower, and have extra picks give more ... ?

Best,
David

[DavidWL]

11 Crimson Butcher- At the start of your turn you deal 2d12 damage to any enemy you can detect. Don't ask how. It's just not very pretty.

Perhaps specify that you do this once per round as a free action?

13 Examplar of War-You add +1d12 to Initiative checks. Whenever an opponent moves away from you, even by magic means, you may make a melee attack against them that automatically hits and is an automatical critical threat.

Perhaps specify that they need to be within your threat range?

21 Signs of the Sleepless-Pick 6 1st level wizard spells with a range of personal or touch. As a free action 1/round you can gain the benefits of one of those at random until you active this ability again. In addition when you use this ability may take a penalty to your AC and saves up to your base bonus to Will save to gain an equal bonus to your attack and damage rolls. Those bonus/penalty last 1 round.

Does it keep the same spell as your option until you reset?  For example, if you have "true strike" active, is that the spell every round until you "reactivate" the ability?  Do you choose to use a spell, and then roll to see what spell, or do you roll for a spell and choose to use?  Can you then reuse every turn?

22 Dream Catcher-As an immediate action when an enemy tries to use a spell/SLA/power/boost on themselves, you may make a Will save with DC 10+1/2 HD+their highest stat mod. If you succeed you're the one benefiting from it. In alternative you may activate this ability when an enemy does a re-roll and picks the best, instead taking the worst result.

Range?  Any enemy you are aware of? 

23 Revision of Reality- As a standard action you may change the target of one action you witnessed or make a being you detect re-roll a save or check, retroactively applying the results (so for example somebody who died due to a failed save comes back to life and is ok). You may use this ability even if you're dead or otherwise unable to act, and unwilling targets get a Fort save with DC 10+1/2 HD+highest mental stat mod to resist. This can affect even undead and constructs, but they gain a +5 bonus on their saves.

Use even if dead is cool.  However, if you died, can you use it every round until the end of time?  Is there any range limit?

If Enemy X attacks character Y, and you want to redirect to Enemy Z, who saves?  Enemy X, I assume?  (Not Z).

Looks good!

Thanks!
 

[oslecamo]

2 Corrosive Breath-You gain a breath weapon affecting a cone with 50 feet that deals 1d6 damage per HD, reflex save with DC 10+1/2 HD+highest stat mod for half. Creatures failing their reflex saves take a -4 penalty to AC, Fort and Ref saves for 1 minute, or half that penalty for 1 round if they make the save. Once used you must wait 1d4 turns to be able to use it again. Each extra time you take this you can increase the range by 10 feet, the damage by 1d6, and the penalty by another -1.

Perhaps this should be slightly stronger?  Compared to other abilities it is a bit weak.  Being untyped is a bit of a powerup, but perhaps also grant 1 breath weapon feat?

Hmmm, made it so that each extra pick comes with a Breath of Fire maneuver.

9 Possessed-Build an evil outsider character using monster classes up to your level-2. As a swift action roll a 1d12. If you roll 1-8, you switch builds. If you roll a 9-11, you gestalt both for 1 minute. If you roll a 12, you change into your evil outsider form and cannot change back for 1 hour. When you level up you may add one level to your other form and/or switch its build. Each extra time you pick this option, add another level to your alternate form.

I've been thinking about this one (because I like it!).  2 suggestions:
1.  It is possible to get more than 3 picks (example:  this prestige class capstone, or later classes).  I'd recommend making it explicit that you can't take this more than 3 times. 
2.  It is strictly better to play a Chaos Champion (Balor) than a Balor.  So the outsider side of gestalt should be weaker even after taking 3 picks.  I'm thinking that perhaps there is a requirement that some things stay the same for both builds?  Maybe some # of the feats?  All of the skills?  Etc.  This will help ensure that this is still balanced vs. Balor 20 as a build (for example), rather than being strictly better.

Good points, nerfed is so that extra picks only improve your demonic form combat instead of straight out levels.

19 Vermintide- You're no longer a container of the infestation, you are the infestation. You become immune to criticals and can pass through any openings small enough to fit a rat. If you would be killed, from your body burst forth 2d12 bats/rats (your choice) that try to escape and hide to the best of their ability in different directions. If any of them survives for 24 hours, they reform into you. You can also intentionally split yourself this way as an immediate action, and reform yourself on your previous condition on any on the surviving critters position as another immediate action.

Thinking about this one more as well.  Bats aren't bad, because they can fly, but they're still pretty weak ... I wonder if 1 fireball would kill all of them?  My instinct is to give them some ability to evade attacks ... maybe they can take a full round action immediately after death?

Gave them the free fullround action as you suggested.

2 Conversion Beam Pistol-Deals 4d6 Force damage, ignoring DR, 50 feet range, hits as a ranged touch attack. For each extra range increment your opponent is further away, it deals an extra 2d6 damage, to a maximum of 20d6 extra damage for ten range increments. Never seems to run out of energy. Victims must make one (and only one regardless of how many times they were hit) Reflex save at the start of their turn or suffer an extra effect based on the number of range increments they were away (1-2 nothing, 3-4 , 5- 6 Dazed, 7-8 dead, 9-10 destroyed).

I like it, but it sure makes for a deadly assassin ... you can make iterative melee attacks with wargear, right?  So as an assassin, you do 20D6, Force, ignoring DR, as a touch attack ... with iterative attacks ...  Perhaps make it loud or otherwise giving away one's location?

For that matter, the obvious thing is to get a way to have extra movement (travel domain), move to the right distance, then unload ... I really like the idea, but think it is probably too strong.

The rules for firing each kind of weapon are on the chaos cultist. Now one thing to take in account is that you need a clear line of sight, so if you're fighting in a dungeon/building, even if you have the moment it'll be complicated at best to set up a long distance shot.

But I like the "really loud/bright" idea, so added a clause that shooting the conversion beam weapons reveals your position to everybody within one mile, so that you can't just go all super stealthy sniper in the open.

20 Terminator Armor-Grants a +14 AC bonus, +2 Max Dex, -12 skill penalty, 80% ASF, DR 20/adamantine, and resistance 20 against Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire, Negative energy and Sonic damage. Additionally, it provides 75% Fortification and a +8 enanchment bonus to Strength and a +6 resistance bonus to Fortitude saves. However it's so bulky that you cannot make Aoos. Heavy armor. In addition pick one of the following upgrades.

Maybe too strong for 1 pick ... it's fine to scale up to this, but DR20 & Resistance to all 20 & +14 to AC and +8 to Str (enhancement, but still saves gold and gives extra +2), +6 fort all for 1 pick ... 

Maybe start lower, and have extra picks give more ... ?

Done.

11 Crimson Butcher- At the start of your turn you deal 2d12 damage to any enemy you can detect. Don't ask how. It's just not very pretty.

Perhaps specify that you do this once per round as a free action?

Done.

13 Examplar of War-You add +1d12 to Initiative checks. Whenever an opponent moves away from you, even by magic means, you may make a melee attack against them that automatically hits and is an automatical critical threat.

Perhaps specify that they need to be within your threat range?

Done.

21 Signs of the Sleepless-Pick 6 1st level wizard spells with a range of personal or touch. As a free action 1/round you can gain the benefits of one of those at random until you active this ability again. In addition when you use this ability may take a penalty to your AC and saves up to your base bonus to Will save to gain an equal bonus to your attack and damage rolls. Those bonus/penalty last 1 round.

Does it keep the same spell as your option until you reset?  For example, if you have "true strike" active, is that the spell every round until you "reactivate" the ability?  Do you choose to use a spell, and then roll to see what spell, or do you roll for a spell and choose to use?  Can you then reuse every turn?

Yes, the same option remains until you activate again. However since True Strike discharges after just one use, it would end after you make one attack.
You choose to use a spell, then roll what you get.
The spell remains until discharged/dispeled, clarified.

22 Dream Catcher-As an immediate action when an enemy tries to use a spell/SLA/power/boost on themselves, you may make a Will save with DC 10+1/2 HD+their highest stat mod. If you succeed you're the one benefiting from it. In alternative you may activate this ability when an enemy does a re-roll and picks the best, instead taking the worst result.

Range?  Any enemy you are aware of? 

Aware of, clarified.

23 Revision of Reality- As a standard action you may change the target of one action you witnessed or make a being you detect re-roll a save or check, retroactively applying the results (so for example somebody who died due to a failed save comes back to life and is ok). You may use this ability even if you're dead or otherwise unable to act, and unwilling targets get a Fort save with DC 10+1/2 HD+highest mental stat mod to resist. This can affect even undead and constructs, but they gain a +5 bonus on their saves.

Use even if dead is cool.  However, if you died, can you use it every round until the end of time?  Is there any range limit?

No range limit, clarified that can only redo stuff that hapened one round ago. So if you've been dead for more than one round, you can't witness what hapened on the previous round and thus can't use the ability anymore.

If Enemy X attacks character Y, and you want to redirect to Enemy Z, who saves?  Enemy X, I assume?  (Not Z).

Correct.

Looks good!

Thanks!
 

Great to hear that!

Now just the Chaos Lord Lady and Daemon Princess left to do.