Author Topic: Hiding a Lich’s Phylactery  (Read 16160 times)

Offline bruceleeroy

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Re: Hiding a Lich’s Phylactery
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2013, 01:51:14 PM »
Ooh man. Imagine the argument that comes up when they find out that Player X's super awesome magic trinket that he got from killing the lich has to be destroyed.

On a side note, when the Lich reappears 1d10 days after it's apparent death, where does it reappear, exactly? Is it an automatic location, or the lich's choice? If it's an automatic spot, then why break the phylactery at all?

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Normally, I would be reading this, open the reply box, decide what I had to say didn't need said, and close out. But this is just too ridiculous.



Offline Kasz

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Re: Hiding a Lich’s Phylactery
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2013, 05:54:16 AM »
Generally a Lich would be vain or narcissistic, anyone who thinks "I can't die, I deserve to live forever" is going to be one of those things. This is a character flaw, the Lich thinks he's smarter than the party so he'll hide his phylactery in plain site. Why would a super-intelligent being do this? To gloat... it's the same reason bond villains give speeches.
"I am so better than you, you are nothing, my phylactery has been under your nose this whole time yet none of you are anywhere near as intelligent as me and thus you have not realised and I have defeated you, * obligatory evil laugh*"
The Lich's Phylactery is his Undead Lieutenant's adamantine skull!, but we killed him weeks ago and have had that skull with us the whole time!

I'd have it be obvious... like "The Lich's Diary!" or Lucky Charm... or maybe it's the really ornate urn he keeps in his lair.... or maybe it's his spellbook that he keeps on him all day.

Disclaimer: Not all Liches are the same, I appreciate not all Liches fall into bond villain traps, paranoid liches who use spellclocks to summon guardians and buff their phylactery which is also a golem able to defend it's self that stand within manifest zones in a small room underneath a volcano also exist, as do other infinite varieties.

Offline Lunarambling

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Re: Hiding a Lich’s Phylactery
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2013, 07:52:57 PM »
I am DM and my party is trying to track down the BBEG Lich's Phylactery. Any suggestions on how to handle this? (Party level 16th) I want to make this really hard but not impossible.

Thanks,
Necro

In the gullet of a Lolth-Touched (I believe that is the one that makes them immune to divination) White Dragon of appropriate CR that lives in the bottom of a Glacial Lake. Perhaps with some minions and the like. Create a huge Maze that is immune to Divination such as Find The Path. I would suggest perhaps having some Undead since they work well with the habit of the White Dragon to store bodies around their lairs. Have various zombies and skellies mixed in with the snacks that the dragon has saved. If you go with a Great Wyrm they have 13th level Sorcerer casting, assuming you don't use any other archetypes and stuff. Particularly using the Vicious and Frost Templates for any Skeletons since it makes them slightly better, and the Frost is very fitting for being controlled by a White Dragon. Perhaps make the Great Wyrm White Dragon a Spell Hoarding Evil Arch Dragon(Drag Mag 321 or http://chet.kindredcircle.org/pdf/DnD3.5Index-Templates.pdf.


Offline Nytemare3701

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Re: Hiding a Lich’s Phylactery
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2013, 07:06:50 AM »
the one that makes them immune to divination

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Offline Cyclone Joker

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Re: Hiding a Lich’s Phylactery
« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2013, 07:34:57 AM »
Get two Bags of Holding. Stick the Phylactery in one, walk into a AMF, and stick the first one into the second one. Then hide it in a stereotypical dungeon populated by hordes of loyal monsters and traps.

Offline Nytemare3701

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Re: Hiding a Lich’s Phylactery
« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2013, 07:48:56 AM »
Get two Bags of Holding. Stick the Phylactery in one, walk into a AMF, and stick the first one into the second one. Then hide it in a stereotypical dungeon populated by hordes of loyal monsters and traps.

If I understand you correctly the second bag of holding acts like a partitioned hard drive, and the person who loots the outside bag is unaware of its existence?

Offline Cyclone Joker

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Re: Hiding a Lich’s Phylactery
« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2013, 10:42:01 AM »
Basically. It's not anywhere near as elaborate as the Dream of Metal, but it's one of the go-to ways to hide a phylactery from people without heavy divining resources.

If I was trying to hide it further, I'd make it make an air-tight chamber sealed far underground filled with constructs and undead, with various standard countermeasures, but that's probably not what the OP was looking for. It's also significantly less mean than the grain of sand strategy.

Offline ksbsnowowl

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Re: Hiding a Lich’s Phylactery
« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2013, 11:51:19 AM »
Get two Bags of Holding. Stick the Phylactery in one, walk into a AMF, and stick the first one into the second one. Then hide it in a stereotypical dungeon populated by hordes of loyal monsters and traps.

If I understand you correctly the second bag of holding acts like a partitioned hard drive, and the person who loots the outside bag is unaware of its existence?
I like this.  Cool idea!

Only problem is... when those pesky adventurers "kill" your physical form, and you reform next to your phylactery, how do you get out of the pocket dimension?

Offline ryeookin

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Re: Hiding a Lich’s Phylactery
« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2013, 12:44:48 PM »
Interesting, the way lich's come back from the dead in 3.5 vs Pathfinder. If this was being asked for a pathfinder game then a lot of the ideas above wouldn't work due to the following:

Rejuvenation (Su)
Quote
When a lich is destroyed, its phylactery (which is generally hidden by the lich in a safe place far from where it chooses to dwell) immediately begins to rebuild the undead spellcaster's body nearby. This process takes 1d10 days—if the body is destroyed before that time passes, the phylactery merely starts the process anew. After this time passes, the lich wakens fully healed (albeit without any gear it left behind on its old body), usually with a burning need for revenge against those who previously destroyed it.

If this was for a pathfinder game.. you'd need to grow.. and while you were growing you'd be vulnerable so making this into an item on your person or anywhere you could be found would be great if you want to be simply get destroyed every day.

I can see adventurers casually taking turns daily to see who gets to slice and dice up the lich's body that day.. an annoying but a small price to pay for their new/shiny "uber" magic item.

Offline Nytemare3701

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Re: Hiding a Lich’s Phylactery
« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2013, 02:16:40 PM »
Get two Bags of Holding. Stick the Phylactery in one, walk into a AMF, and stick the first one into the second one. Then hide it in a stereotypical dungeon populated by hordes of loyal monsters and traps.

If I understand you correctly the second bag of holding acts like a partitioned hard drive, and the person who loots the outside bag is unaware of its existence?
I like this.  Cool idea!

Only problem is... when those pesky adventurers "kill" your physical form, and you reform next to your phylactery, how do you get out of the pocket dimension?

I could see an entire encounter based on that. It's not like you breathe, so you could be in there a LONG time.

Party finds bag of holding, party turns it inside out and gets a lich.

Offline altpersona

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Re: Hiding a Lich’s Phylactery
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2013, 02:19:11 PM »
demiplane w/ fast time trait so that it comes out w/ stacked Evolved templates.

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Offline ksbsnowowl

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Re: Hiding a Lich’s Phylactery
« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2013, 05:16:33 PM »
Get two Bags of Holding. Stick the Phylactery in one, walk into a AMF, and stick the first one into the second one. Then hide it in a stereotypical dungeon populated by hordes of loyal monsters and traps.

If I understand you correctly the second bag of holding acts like a partitioned hard drive, and the person who loots the outside bag is unaware of its existence?
I like this.  Cool idea!

Only problem is... when those pesky adventurers "kill" your physical form, and you reform next to your phylactery, how do you get out of the pocket dimension?

I could see an entire encounter based on that. It's not like you breathe, so you could be in there a LONG time.

Party finds bag of holding, party turns it inside out and gets a lich.
Well, it would be an even longer time in the above scenario; with the partitioned hard drive description, the lich wouldn't ever get out until someone looked in the bag while inside an antimagic field.

I suppose Plane Shift would get you out.  So the Lich would have to make sure there was also a spellbook and a light source inside the bag (and the tuning fork for the material plane), so he could prepare spells and then plane shift back to the material world.

If you try this as a player, you have a pretty good chance of the phylactery going "poof" onto the astral plane, as a DM could determine that a bag inside a bag is also dangerous (even if one is while in AMF; when you leave it, poof).  No less likely than brining your bag of holding into a Rope Trick, and I've seen DM's cause problems over that...
« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 05:23:02 PM by ksbsnowowl »

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Hiding a Lich’s Phylactery
« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2013, 10:52:46 AM »
Do you even really need the second bag of holding? Just put it inside a bag of holding while inside an AMF. The only way to ever find/retrieve it then is to again open the bag of holding inside an AMF. That gets around any possible wonkery due to putting a BoH inside a BoH.

Now... I'm not sure where the phylactery IS when the BoH is outside of an AMF... It's not actually inside the BoH... or at least not the extra dimensional space it accesses. I guess it's "under" the access to the extradimensional space, within the "mundane" bag (kind of like being sewn into it).

By the way, this is an awesome idea! So simple, and yet it could be very effective. :D
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Offline nijineko

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Re: Hiding a Lich’s Phylactery
« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2013, 12:26:39 PM »
Quote from: (excerpted from the lectures on "Temporal-Spatial-Planar Deformations and Claudications, Natural and Artificial: Formation and Utility Thereof," by Nijineko; a series of lectures given at the Psi-Conclave during the winter months of the Year of the Closed Circle)

...A bag of holding and a portable hole both use slightly different methods of sidereal access to the ethereal plane in order to function. It that it is due to destructive resonance of the incompatible and differing methods of accessing the same plane which causes the spectacular interface effects that have been noted in the journals and materials referenced in your handouts. To provide an analogy, it is somewhat like attempting to march a company of soldiers across a wooden bridge in perfect lock step.

As a counter example the effects of a rope trick, psychoportative shelter, or magnificent mansion all use non-dimensional space. As such, there is no interference potential between them and a bag of holding or portable hole.

Furthermore, there is no indication in any of our recorded observations that said bags of holding or portable holes within one of their own kind would not function as normal. In fact, the amplification potential of two similar energy signatures would theoretically make it quite difficult to remove the secondary item from within the first, once one item was placed within a similar example of its own kind. And by extension, a sufficient chain of like items within each other would amplify the energy signature to such a degree that it would quite possibly strain and potentially rupture the materials out of which the items are constructed

It is important to note that the non-dimensional space and the claudication adjacent to the normal space inside a bag of holding or portable hole is not shunted aside or somehow made non-existent when the claudication is suppressed. The space in question has been extended through said claudication with the effective addition of the non-dimensional space. Thus any object placed inside such a bag or on the surface of such a hole in a power-dead region (such as naturally occurs in certain locations, please refer to Figure 7.4 in your handouts, and as also can be artificially constructed such as the famous, or infamous, anti-magic field), such an object would simply fall through the reopened claudication into the extended space once removed from said power-dead region....

***

...Non-dimensional space (as the term is confusingly used interchangeably with the similar term extra-dimensional in the source materials referenced in your handouts, though for reasons based upon my own studies, I prefer the former,) are naturally occurring areas of potential weakness in the weave of the fabric of space-time with the specific quality of elasticity. Not all such areas have this quality of elasticity. Other areas with differing qualities, and therefore utilities (such as rigidity and the commonly and popularly associated dimension door) do exist, but that will be covered in next week's lecture.

This quality of elasticity allows, with the correct application of energy, such an elastic area to be stretched and expanded into a closed pocket of space-time with limited dimensions, and characteristics of the same space from which it is formed. while such "bubble" are of limited utility in and of themselves, with the exception of certain applications in mutli-dimensional / multi-planar construction and precise positioning, if a stable claudication can be adjoined to both the "bubble" and a more normal section of space-time, an accessible pocket-space is formed. common uses include living quarters for various prime and planar entities, both sentient and otherwise, and storage locations for substances and items found useful and valuable to the same....



regarding the hiding of a phylactery, and as has been mentioned at least twice already in the thread: within a living being, so that their living signature cloaks the undead signature of the phylactery, is a fairly good choice. on the other hand, using someone with the that feat which makes them be healed by negative energy might also confuse or mask the signature. see if the lich can manage to capture a pc, and place some sort of destructive contingency on it such that removal equates unavoidable and unrecoverable death for the pc in question. maybe a chain of contingency where removal of the phylactery slays the pc, and traps the soul, and when the soul gem is filled the gem and phylactery teleports to the lich or a predetermined location.

i also like the idea of giving it to a bound powerful and dangerous being, then using imprisonment on it.



one of my personal favorites is to make a permanent item of contingency-time hop either attached to or out of the phylactery, with the stipulation that it triggers if anything moves within the detection radius. thus it will jump into the future in near perpetuity: the wind rustles leaves or grass... jump... any living or undead thing moves... jump... a shift in light or shadow... jump...

depending on how things turn out, it may last until the local star goes nova. might want to attach energy protection - all to it.


in a similar vein, shoot it into orbit, or into space, or "accidently" lose it during a spelljamming trip.