"Free" metamagic?

[NunoM]

I rarely (er... never) choose metamagic feats for my casting characters...

Is there any metamagic feat that doesn't increase the spell level?
Which ones do you consider "definitely worth it!"?

(I'm not sure if this question belongs here...)

Thanks!

[sirpercival]

It really depends on what kind of spells you cast... My favorites are Invisible Spell and Sculpt Spell, along with Extend & Persist. Easy Metamagic (from one of the dragon mags) can help with a particular feat.

[NunoM]

Currently i'm playing a Duskblade... The maximum spell level for the class isn't great (maxes up at 5th level), so i can't afford "expensive" spell level modifiers.

EDIT: The bulk of the spells are "Range: Touch" spells, to make use of the channeling ability, such as "Shocking Grasp".

[Concerned Ninja Citizen]

This handbook is where I go to find such things.

[sirpercival]

If you're using Shocking Grasp a lot, and can get immunity to dazing, pick up Born of the Three Thunders.

[NunoM]

Nice link! ...and suggestion!

Thank you!

[NunoM]

I got it! I'll just keep a nice stock of Metamagic Rods and take the "Rapid Metamagic" feat.
This doesn't solve the higher-level-spell-slots-needed problem, but it does allow me to keep channeling the modified spells

Thanks for the input, guys!

EDIT: i might take "Energy Substitution", though... Sounds cool, and i kind of like the idea of shooting Scorching Rays of acid, for a change...

[whitetyger009]

a feat l liked for my duskblade is smiting spell.  phb2 pg 93.  for a +1 to the level of the spell you can cast a touch spell that stays charged in your weapon until you hit someone with it or a minute passes.  this allows you to drop 2 shocking grasp (one from smiting spell and one from your normal channel ability) and hit an opponent with 10d6 of damage. 

another thing I did was take PrC spellsword complete warrior.  it has a channel feature that you can use in place of a move action. so the sequence of events is cast smiting spell shocking grasp, move to within striking distance of enemy.  next round move action channel shocking grasp (or lightning bolt), swift action to cast blade of blood, standard action to channel shocking grasp and strike.  your looking at 18d6+weapon damage. 

if you can get twin spell on a metamagic rod you can double that.

[RobbyPants]

Arcane Thesis is good for stacking lots of +1 level MM feats on a particular spell (as it reduces each one by one point, making each of them +0). Easy Metamagic is similarly good, if you want to apply a particular +1 MM feat to many spells. Note, you could mix the two of them to apply a single +2 level MM feat to a particular spell for a +0 adjustment.

I was in a game playing a conjurer who used Glitterdust a lot. I happened to have Extend Spell (+1), Sculpt Spell (+1), and Quicken Spell (+4) that I used a lot. I considered taking Arcane Thesis (Glitterdust), just so I'd be able to cast it Extended and Sculpted with a +0 adjustment. I could cast an Extended, Sculpted, Quickened Glitterdust as a 5th level slot, which, really would be pretty nice. That spell affects a lot of things.

[Kasz]

A completely silly interpretation of arcane thesis would be it lowers Invisible Spell to a -1. (0 - 1 = -1)

The Feat does not say that metamagic cannot be reduced below a +0. It does state that it cannot lower the level of a spell below it's original level.

Meaning with this interpretation, you could use Empower +2, Silent +1, Still +1, Extend +1, Sculpt +1 and Invisible Spell +0.
Have them lowered to: Empower +1, Silent +0, Still +0, Extend +0, Sculpt +0 and Invisible Spell -1. Then cast an empowered silent still extended sculpted invisible spell in a slot equal to it's original level.

If you use enough +0 you could get a free quicken. Quicken is a +4, (+3 with thesis). If you treat Invisible spell, Energy Substitution and Born of Three Thunders and treat them as a -3, you've got a Quickened Invisible Born of Three Thunders spell for no adjustment. Hell... you could have it be an Empowered Silent Still Extended Sculpted Quickened Invisible Born of Three Thunders.

Then dodge the rulebooks your DM throws at you, the corners can be pretty sharp. I do not recommend actually trying to get this broken interpretation around your DM.

[NunoM]

a feat l liked for my duskblade is smiting spell.  phb2 pg 93.  for a +1 to the level of the spell you can cast a touch spell that stays charged in your weapon until you hit someone with it or a minute passes.  this allows you to drop 2 shocking grasp (one from smiting spell and one from your normal channel ability) and hit an opponent with 10d6 of damage. 

I like the tactic, but wouldn't this clash with the rules for holding the charge? (i.e. you lose the charge of a touch spell if you cast another)

Then dodge the rulebooks your DM throws at you, the corners can be pretty sharp. I do not recommend actually trying to get this broken interpretation around your DM.

My gaming group isn't very keen on letting weird exploits through... If it's too hard to explain why it's legal, they frown... (heck, i'm having trouble convincing them that 5ft as part of a Whirlwind attack [from the Whirling weapon ability] is legal!)
So i'm sure there would be books flying, yes...

Arcane Thesis is good for stacking lots of +1 level MM feats on a particular spell (as it reduces each one by one point, making each of them +0).

Ohh... Didn't notice this! Good catch!

[whitetyger009]

two different types of charge.  one is a feat applied metamagic and the other is a class ability that casts as you swing your weapon.  if you have a book reference to look at, however, I would be glad to entertain the discussion that it does conflict.

[Arz]

Also check pseudo-metamagic like poison spell from DotU.

[whitetyger009]

what is DotU?

[Jackinthegreen]

Drow of the Underdark.

And do note that the wording on Arcane Thesis specifically disallows the spell from being lowered below its normal spell level.

[Kethrian]

True, but an Invisible Empowered spell with Arcane Thesis would be lowered back to its normal spell level ...

[NunoM]

two different types of charge.  one is a feat applied metamagic and the other is a class ability that casts as you swing your weapon.  if you have a book reference to look at, however, I would be glad to entertain the discussion that it does conflict.

There's no exact prohibition on this... The rules for "holding the charge" state:

Holding the Charge: If you don’t discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the discharge of the spell (hold the charge) indefinitely.
[...]
If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.

Well... i see you point. With "Smiting Spell", considering you transfer the charge of the spell into the weapon, and that it remains there, w/o intervention, for a minute (or until discharged), i guess it's legal to channel a spell through the weapon afterwards.

However, i'll be having a hard time explaining this to my game mates... The word "exploit" shouts out in this

[whitetyger009]

eh. I developed this tactic while playing with a group who had a horrible time killing big enemies.  little stuff they had no trouble with but with big 'end' guys, demons, dragons, anything that was a single large creature the party just could not lay out the damage to kill it without taking massive damage.  I play a duskblade in plate armor and a great sword.  had the sword enchanted with a +2, spell storing, and shock (+1d6 electric damage).  I could burn a huge amount of spells FAST and deal a huge amount of damage.  use the smiting spell (twined shocking grasp), end action.  next turn move adjacent to monster, cast true strike, end action.  cast blade of blood as swift action, channel twined shocking grasp, discharge twined shocking grasp, burn level 3 spell slot for arcane strike.  level 12

+43 to hit 2d6+1d6 electrical+3d6+3d4+30d6 electrical+10 (36d6+3d4+10)

with the big monsters the DM was using it was enough to cripple the monster.  I could only do this like 4 times a day.  then I started taking levels of PrC dragon disciple.  if you want I can dig up the build its around here somewhere and I can post it or pm you with it.  point buy system. 

you have to be very careful how you expend your spells.  if you use too much on smaller guys then you can't go nuke when you need to.  my duskblade took more prep and more careful expenditure of magical resources than the wizard of our group.  we had a wizard8/fighter4, a psiblade12, a rouge12, a NPC cleric12 and then me. 

if your group isn't having as much trouble holding its own then I would suggest a slightly modified version of the above build.  or you can take the build as is and only use the nuke as a last resort.

[NunoM]

I hope you had Rings of Wizardry, or, at least, Versatile Spellcaster to compensate for all that spell burning

My gaming group is simple. We're all still 4th level and the group is composed of a cleric, a warmage, a rogue2/swashbuckler2, a couple of druids + a wolf and a dog (warbeast) companions and me.
As you can imagine, at such low level, me, along with the dog companion are the main damage dealers in the group. The rogue can dish out some damage as well, but unfortunately the player misses a lot of game sessions, so...

Yes, i'd appreciate if you sent me the build. We don't use "Tome of Battle" or psionics, but it would be great to check it out, thanks!

[wotmaniac]

*NOTE*
Easy MM explicitly says that it can't lower a MM feat below +1 (not counting Arcane Thesis, which, of course, can still bring it down to a +0).